HELP!!! Ran without oil ,rattle noise/any ideas???

[vandean]

Here's one for all of you who think you've done something stupid before and wondered if or how could I have been so stupid!!!
Just took out my 02 220 KDX for the first time.Break in went smooth untill I drained the gearbox oil to change as recommended.While my friend drained it out ,I was busy doing the math to add some more premix and you can probably imagine what happened next.In our hastiness to get out on the trail to try this thing out for real,well we brain surgeons forgot the lifeblood in the gearbox.About twenty or thirty minutes later of technical trail riding(slow but some engine work)we got back out on the open logging road and the thing made a couple of whining noises when I chopped the throttle.Then for some reason I suddenly remembered what I dreaded not think could be possible.I killed the engine right away and my friend raced back to the truck to get the synthetic oil that was supposed to be in the bike.After adding the oil(before the engine cooled;it was hot but not so hot you couldn't touch the case) I rode it around lightly to see if their was going to be any seizure.Seemed OK.To my problem:Now when you release the clutch when idling it seems to be quite a bit noisier than before as though there may be some damage in the clutch.Any help is appreciated for my stupidity.(Lesson learned.Never get too :ugg: anxious to do anything)

 

[Birken Vogt]

Hmm...I've ridden my CR500 a few times without oil (it leaks a lot). Never seemed to do any real damage. Whether that has anything to do with your problem, I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Birken
'92 XR600
'88 CR500

 

[joe28kdx]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm gonna guess that if it's noisey, you may have smoked some bearings, blued the gears at the worst.
Take the side cases off and lookie and criee. :whiner:
Try throwing in @100 cc of BG high pressure lube in it. That stuff cushions the bearing surface, I've used it in differentals in cars for years.
My advice take it to the dealer, have him listen, put a another scoot next to it and comapre noise, they are noisey,or take a close look inside.
I did the same thing on an '88 Honda 125 CR. Dumped the oil between moto's , got side tracked, my moto came up, did 2 nice laps then silence!!
Opps happens!
Joe
2001 KDX 200
2- TTR 125's Boy "A"'s and "B"'s
2000 ATK 125 new scoot for the stable

God made trees to halt your forward progress, that why I use them so much ;)

 

[jdbrusch]

I would at least drain the oil again to see if any material comes out with it,steel,aluminum etc. I would also take the right engine cover off(not just the small clutch cover) to get a rough ides of any damage this may have caused.Because these gears are under constant load they will give you a idea of what condition the tranny gears are in,also check the clutch basket,plates idler gear and the clutch basket bushings.I recall the power valve or KIPS and waterpump gears are plastic these may have been damaged or even melted,this maybe a good place to start.Good luck, these trannys are fairly tough but the softer materials can take a beating.

 

[slcyclerace]

You're not going to seize because it's a two stroke and premix lubes the mains and cyl. The noise is probably from an angry power valve actuator. Run a full liter of trans. oil and check the clutch plates the next time you're in the case. Other than that, you might have a blue gear or two but it's amazing how much abuse they can take!!! Ride and have fun.

 

[dklink2000]

What's it mean when you blue a gear?

 

[for]

A blue gear is caused by the steel getting really hot. Steel and some other metals tend to go blue when they're heated to a high temperature. It's probably some sort of oxide colouration, I dunno. Think of the outside of a single-walled four-stroke exhaust header.

The lack of oil in the gearbox will cause friction and heat buildup, especially between gear pairs that are used a lot. It could affect the gear's life expectancy but it might not.

I can see myself being this stupid too. Makes me cringe...

 

[Canadian-KDX]

It shouldent have done too much damage because my brother has a 1983 YZ 250 that he never runs tranny oil in....somehow that kid still has a transmittion :think: ah well just change the oil then ride it for a bit then you probably want to change it again just to be positive that there is no metal pieces in there to chew up some bearings

well thats my advice

 

[jdbrusch]

Hey vadean I just noticed by your profile you live in Vancouver B.C. I live in Richmond B.C. Pm me your phone# if want some help with the bike.I tried to pm you but your mail box is full .James

 

[Yamablue]

Hopefully you didn't ride the bike for to long. As previously said, some big expensive damage could be caused. I wonder if the dealer would fix/replace the parts damaged (if any). Assuming it's still under warenty. Or, does a warenty even replace parts when it's not a manufacturer defect? I don't know.
-I'm from Coquitlam BC. Though I'm only 15 so I probably couldn't help very much. But one day I seriously would want a kdx. 86 and newer. That's all she (he) wrote...

 

[kciH]

I would suggest replacing the transmission oil with that recommended by the MFG and riding it for awhile(keep the reciept and buy it from the dealer you bought the bike from). If it breaks, take it to the dealer and just play stupid. These guys have hosed enough of us on this sort of deal to make it a minor sin. If they don't fix it, if it's broke, you learned a lesson the expensive way. We have all done that. If your trans bearings are shot and you can do the work yourself it's not that bad. You may have just fried your clutch plates, not a big expense.

 

[Robcolo]

TRY THIS: Start it up and listen for the increased noise that you're experiencing -- then pull in the clutch lever -- does the noise go away? IF so, the problem is either with the clutch or trans shaft bearings [all gears before the clutch are still spinning] Is there increased vibration when letting out the clutch? The brass insert bushing in the clutch hub is the likely culprit. I don't know if these are replacable. Mine is a bit worn and the clutch spring bolts are grinding a nice little groove next to the sight glass in the clutch cover.

 

[Sage]

from the sounds of it this my be your first KDX? (02, first oil change...) The KDX clutches are noisy to start with, see if you can listen to another KDX and see if it has the same noise.

 

[Tantrum]

Originally posted by Canadian-KDX
It shouldent have done too much damage because my brother has a 1983 YZ 250 that he never runs tranny oil in....

Yeah, I dont run any either. It keeps my piston return springs in good shape Sometimes I put a little oil in the tranny just to lube my motor, ya see, I took the seal out from between the gearbox and crankcase so I could run oil in the fuel without contaminating my whole tank of gas. It runs much stronger when theres no oil though. It also keeps my muffler bearings from getting any buildup from burning oil. Just my 0.02.

:p

 

[vetexrcr]

oil-less

I've done this same thing in my KX500. I race open-class in the desert and have finished an entire 35 mi loop without tranny oil. After splitting the cases i found little to no permanent damage(replaced bearings because i already had them in spares box) So a short period of time most likely will not cause any damage.Noises you heard were most audible after residual oil was heated out ,refill and noises will probably stop