I don't think a damper can help me... (much)

[OldTimer]

For as long as I've ridden dirt bikes I've had trouble with maintaining uhh... balance?
It seems every rut, root, rock, stick, hole or bump I hit causes my front wheel to jump to one side or twist, throwing me off balance and causing me to dab for dear life. It seems going faster just adds to the problem.
I see guys cruising alone like they're going down the highway and here I come, washing out on a straight run!
I feel like I have to practically hold my breath to go over thirty mph on gravel, and for goodness sakes don't try to steer on it.
Are there techniques to alleviate this problem?
Is there some innate talent that I lack?
I'm really getting tired of being passed by some kid on a CRF50 with training wheels and getting a :nener: as he goes by! :bang:

 

[76GMC1500]

Move your weight further back and try to loft that front wheel over things. Be loose, let the bike move around under you.

The gravel will come to you the more you ride on it. Let the bike slide around a bit, be loose on the bike and let it move around under you.

Try to steer more with the throttle and your body and less with the handlebars.

The most important thing is to be relaxed. The bike is inherently stable and if you don't fight it, it will stay upright. In order to initiate that turn, you need to upset that stability.

Practice on the slow technical stuff, it hurts less when you go down.

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

this brings up a question I would like to ask. when going fast and stuff or whatever should I have my weight to the front or back or middle of the bike? I was thinking towards the front of the bike so I put more weight on the front wheel therefor giving it more traction? or maybe I want to lean back? will leaning back cause it to wash out or leaning forward cause it to wash out?

 

[High Lord Gomer]

If you haven't tried a steering damper, it is well worth asking someone to let you try their bike with one. I have been amazed at how much less deflection I felt I got when riding through uneven, chewed up whoops.

As far as postion...in general, if you are accelerating you should be forward on the bike to keep the front end down. If you are braking you should be as far back as possible to keep the back end down (yes, it will come up if you are on the front brake hard enough).

 

[DougRoost]

Standing up and gripping the tank with your knees helps, too, since it does a couple things. You can't always do this (in really tight woods for example) but you should try whenever you can. This puts the weight on the pegs, giving a lower CG. It also allows you to do what 76GMC1500 said, which is to let the bike move around underneath you. Finally, through the nasty stuff it allows your legs to absorb some of the jolts, which in combination with a decently dialed in suspension works great.

I suggest you get the book MX & OFF-ROAD RIDING HANDBOOK. It's in most bike shops or you can order it from Eric Gorr's web site. Great book with all you ever wanted to know and then some on this topic.

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

If you haven't tried a steering damper, it is well worth asking someone to let you try their bike with one. I have been amazed at how much less deflection I felt I got when riding through uneven, chewed up whoops.

As far as postion...in general, if you are accelerating you should be forward on the bike to keep the front end down. If you are braking you should be as far back as possible to keep the back end down (yes, it will come up if you are on the front brake hard enough).

so if Im going pretty fast and I slam on the front brake the front wheel wont wash out?

 

[mox69]

so if Im going pretty fast and I slam on the front brake the front wheel wont wash out?

That depends on a lot of different things, such as brake quality, tire quality, track road conditions, etc.

If you hit the front brake very hard and very fast more than likely you will lock it up.

If you gradually apply increasing pressure you have less of a chance of it washing out and more of a chance for the back end to come up. As you squeeze the front brake the front shock compress and transfers more weight to the front tire, this allows you to squeeze a bit harder and stop a bit faster, etc, etc.

There's no way to explain this to someone, just go and try it out at slow speeds :)

 

[OldTimer]

What about tire pressure, rebound damping etc.?
What settings will minimize the squirreliness?

 

[76GMC1500]

12 psi all around, just run the stock suspension settings until you start to develop a better feel for the bike and then start tuning.

A little squirlyness is fine. When running 5th gear in soft sand, my handlebars move back and forth quite a bit while I try to maintain a straight line. I just let them do their thing. The faster you go, the more stable the bike is. If you master things at low speed, you'll more than likely be able to do them at high speeds.

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

12 psi all around, just run the stock suspension settings until you start to develop a better feel for the bike and then start tuning.

A little squirlyness is fine. When running 5th gear in soft sand, my handlebars move back and forth quite a bit while I try to maintain a straight line. I just let them do their thing. The faster you go, the more stable the bike is. If you master things at low speed, you'll more than likely be able to do them at high speeds.

theres a saying from a sport I used to do and the saying is: if you cant do it slow, than you cant do it fast

 

[fisco]

I would try jumping a ditch slowly. Riding is one sport where speed does make all the difference. Hill climbs, sand, whoops, jumping all depend mostly on speed.

Try soft sand as a starting point. We have big mine dumps we ride up, much like dunes but finer. Landing are soft. Good place to play.

 

[mbaird]

I tell my little kids " practice going slow first, learn your balance and weight distribution . If you can go slow over anything you can go fast"

My 13 yr old daughter is on the extreme ski team for girls
They told her. " A bag of rocks can go fast down hill !!"

My buddy just took lessons from Billy Ule out here and I asked
Terri what he focused on. He said balance and control, they
never went very fast. In fact he made Terri balance his
bike while standing still for minutes on end.

 

[OldTimer]

...In fact he made Terri balance his
bike while standing still for minutes on end.

See, that's the thing right there...
I couldn't balance a motionless bike for two seconds, much less minutes.
I can't ride wheelies because the moment I reach the balance point it's loop city. Either that or the bike leans to one side or the other and it's dab or die.
Heck, trying to balance a chair on two legs is a mystery to me much less spinning a basketball on the end of a finger.
So I guess this gets back to the basic question: Do talented, skillful, or even capable riders posess a sense of balance that's foreign to dopes like me?

 

[76GMC1500]

Don't worry, I can't balance a motionless bike long, either. Everybody I know who can learned to do it on a BMX bike. A motorcycle is too heavy to try to learn to balance on.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

I can't ride wheelies because the moment I reach the balance point it's loop city. Either that or the bike leans to one side or the other and it's dab or die.

My guess is that you're trying to do wheelies in 1st gear. The faster you go, the more stable the bike is and therefore less likely to go off to one side or the other.

So I guess this gets back to the basic question: Do talented, skillful, or even capable riders posess a sense of balance that's foreign to dopes like me?

Yep, foreign to me, too.

 

[76GMC1500]

My guess is that you're trying to do wheelies in 1st gear. The faster you go, the more stable the bike is and therefore less likely to go off to one side or the other.

But it hurts so bad when you do go over in 4th gear.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

But it hurts so bad when you do go over in 4th gear.

LOL! I was thinking more like bringing it up in 2nd and shifting to 3rd rather than trying to start in 1st at walking speed.

With the FZ1 I had, first gear wheelies were much harder to control than ones I brought it up in second.

 

[76GMC1500]

I know what you're saying and agree 100%, I just had to throw in that 4th gear comment because it did happen to me once. Doing wheelies in higher gears is easier. On my 250, to I wheelie in 5th gear, load up the forks and hit the gas. The front wheel comes up very slowly and controllably. Because of your speed, the bike will keep tracking a straight line.

Now, there is this one log in a trail I ride. I have to wheelie from a stop to get over it. I've been having a ton of trouble with that. I finally did make it over the other day, but I just high centered on it and burned rubber until the bike hopped over.

 

[KelvinKDX]

OldTimer - Can you close your eyes and balance on one foot for a sustained amount of time (30-40 seconds)? You may just have an equilibrium problem that is throwing you off.

 

[OldTimer]

OldTimer - Can you close your eyes and balance on one foot for a sustained amount of time (30-40 seconds)? ...

Well, back in the day, I passed a DUI test or two. :cool:

 

[76GMC1500]

Now they just bring out the breathalizer, whether or not you pass the test :(

 

[Ol'89r]

It seems every rut, root, rock, stick, hole or bump I hit causes my front wheel to jump to one side or twist, throwing me off balance and causing me to dab for dear life. It seems going faster just adds to the problem.
I see guys cruising alone like they're going down the highway and here I come, washing out on a straight run!
I feel like I have to practically hold my breath to go over thirty mph on gravel, and for goodness sakes don't try to steer on it.
Are there techniques to alleviate this problem?
QUOTE]


OldTimer.

A steering damper will help as far as stopping the front wheel from deflecting off of roots and rocks but, it sounds like that is not your problem.

Your bike is just a big gyro. If you were to go along at speed and jump off of the bike, it would keep going without you until it either hit something or lost enough momentum to where it will just fall over on its side. (Don't ask me how I know this.) ;) Sounds like you are fighting it.

Let the bike do most of the work. Don't fight it or hold on too tight on the bars. When you get a death grip on the bars, it takes away from the bikes ability to do its thing. It will cause you to stiffen your whole body and riding ability will suffer as a result. Plus it causes arm pump and makes your whole body tired.

Try relaxing on the bike and concentrate on not holding on so tight. Someone mentioned gripping with your knees. This is a good idea and it helps conserve upper body strength. If you are having the most trouble in gravel, then practice in gravel. Ride as much as you can in the gravel until you start to feel comfortable with letting the bike move around. Once you get comfortable with the gravel, everything else will be easy.

Remember, momentum and your throttle is your friend. It will get you out of more situations than your brakes will.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

Remember, momentum and your throttle is your friend. It will get you out of more situations than your brakes will.

Yeah...but look at some of the situations they have gotten you *INTO*! :yikes:


:moon:

 

[Ol'89r]

Yeah...but look at some of the situations they have gotten you *INTO*! :yikes:
:moon:

Awwww Crap! :ohmy: I knew that was coming. ;)

 

[76GMC1500]

So I went out and practiced a bit today and learned something. I would never say I had good balance on a bike. But, today I was able to stay upright for 10-20 seconds while completely stopped. I practiced a bit in my driveway and started with the engine not running. That is very difficult to do because the engine is like a gyroscope. If you start to tip, give it a quick rev as you try to straighten it.

The most important thing, though, don't ever look at the front fender while trying to balance. I went from 2-3 seconds of balance to 10-20 seconds of balance just by picking a point 20-30 feet ahead of me and staring at that. I can go indefinately while creeping forward with this technique as well. Watch some observed trials videos. The pro guys NEVER look at their front wheel, except in a very rare case when they need to position it on top of something.