Jumping Techniques

[SKELETOR]

I know, I know....
Everyone usually asks this question time and time again, but run with it...
I'm riding a KX500 and I'm having problems with my jumps...

Needless to say, I need some advise on the approach and clearance on jumps. It seems with this particular bike it takes abit longer for the bike to wine down. I understand body positioning and throttle control. It's the throttle control I beleive is the problem I'm having. Does the bigger bore have a factor in the forward excersion. Right the throttle raises the front and brake/ down throttle lowers the front wheel. It's the Launch / approach and Landing without eating more dirt.

My last bad landing cost me 10 (ten) positions and broken thumb. Do them thumbs ever heal.....

 

[TrackMaster]

im not sure what you are asking really? I can try to give you a couple of tips, but im not the greatest at jumping either. When you come up the the jump, try to hit it on the power. Im not sure who said it, but it still sticks in my mind. Someone here gave a tip and said to hit the jumps with authority, on the power, and you will have much more control rather than the jump lobbing you up into the air and it controlling you.

If you are in a higher gear going like 1/4-1/2 throttle, the front end is going to try to climb in the air much easier than if you hit it higher in the power, but if your nose drops, youll have less of a chance to bring the front up. To counter this hit it on the gas, dont let off and lean forward.

How did you crash, and what are you having trouble with the most? this info will help us give you some better advise.

 

[KiDX]

Have you tried preloading the suspension going up the face of the jump? You'll be suprised at the results. It will allow you to go higher and farther.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

It sounds like you already know your answer...throttle control is very important when jumping, especially on a 500!

Pretty much *any* other bike out there would be easier to learn on than your 500.

 

[SKELETOR]

Originally posted by High Lord Gomer
It sounds like you already know your answer...throttle control is very important when jumping, especially on a 500!

Pretty much *any* other bike out there would be easier to learn on than your 500.

So true, I race Cross Country where the power is nice to have for the straights. But here lately, the tracks have involved MX portions added in. That inturn means catchin' air on the jumps. Still trying to practice on MX tracks. Problem may exsist in Anticipation of jump and not Preloading properly.

Question: Do you just allow the bike to make the jump, otherwords are you pulling the bike at the crest to insure height? What gear are you normally hitting these jumps at? I know more practice is probably the best solution...

 

[High Lord Gomer]

Getting the right flight and landing attitude is dependent on throttle position, gear selection, body position, and jump shape (among other things).  Since you have direct control of 3 out of those 4 things, you should rarely ever need to preload the suspension or pull/push on the bars to get the desired flight.

In general (and remember, these are generalities):

• The harder you are on the gas, the farther forward you need to be on the bike to counteract that
• The farther *off* the gas you are, the farther back you need to be
• Jumping at high RPMs in a low gear is much more tricky than jumping at low RPMs in a higher gear.  At high RPMs, a very slight change in throttle will have a much more drastic effect.  Get on it a little harder and it will launch the front much higher...back off just a touch too much and the front will nosedive when the rear kicks off the jump.

In general (there's that word again) hitting a jump one gear higher, at a lower RPM with less power, but leaving the throttle on and pulling, is much easier and consistent than trying to jump while at higher RPMs and/or fiddling with the throttle position on/near the takeoff point.

 

[ocechap]

Uh, I don't think it's possible to have enough throttle control on a KX 500 for jumping. LOL. I think I remember looking at my knees in my face as I slid head first on my back after not having enough throttle control on my KX 500. Btw, it is sold on Wed. And I'm 280 lbs. LOL Gomer knows!!! That is a hard bike to ride jumps. At least for beginners like me. Know Gomer, I am sure can handle it!!

 

[SKELETOR]

Once again thanks, I really appreciate the break down there High Lord...

A couple of weeks from now I'll see how goes...

Contact back with report... Thanks Guys!

 

[honda62]

Hey Im gonna try and give a little more help.(right now im on 4hrs of sleep listening to rancid so if I cant spell thats why) BUt here it gose I mostly agree with what Gomer said except on gear slection and rpm range. I have rode a CR500AF for a few weeks last year Talk about a dangerouse bike to give a 16 year old. for one in second gear you have more than enough power to clear a 80ft triple so being that your a beginer I would say stick it in second and leave it there, I could ride that cr all over Red bud and bearly ever have to take it out of 2nd. As far as Rpm's go you dont want to, you can, but you dont want to be in the bottom end when the bike just starts to sugre that more often than not gonna cause you to go nose high and have to use body english and a rear brake tap to get it down. Instead and this goes for any 2 stroke 250cc and over you want to be where the powers starts to level out mid almost mid to top. (And just make sure to gauge your speed if your going to fast you can let off and give the throtell a blip on the lip to get you over.) Basicly where theres not a big hit or surge of power. This will give you a more level flight and more freedom to soke it up on the face, attempt to whip it or just basicly move around. you wont feel as rush as if you were to hit it in the bottom end. The only bike that you really want to be screaming and have to rev it out all the time over a jump is a 125, just to get as much power out of it as possiable. Pretty much just work ALOT on throttell control 500's are animals and just a litlle twist give you a lkot of power.

late bob

 

[Dr_Doom]

I've always found myself using this theory in my head when im in the air(i have my own twisted ways of launching off).

Wheel too low, Gas.

Wheel too high, Brake.

After that goes through my head, then my arms respond, either pushing or pulling on the handlebars. It's amazing how those big heavy things can turn into such easily guided missiles..i mean..birds. I also like to hold the throttle till im off the jump. Then letting go and giving blips of throttle when needed.

And on a side note of jumping, anyone have some good tips on jumps what like to kick your rear wheel higher than the front?

 

[xr100ider]

if there's a kicker on the jump face, just hold the throttle through and steady until you're well in the air.

 

[MARK IT]

And get farther back on the bike up the face. I know that model bike has a
good in air feel but a funny kind of off the face front heavy feel, or the one I had did. I am in no way an expert jumper, moderat to ok tough.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

Originally posted by Dr_Doom
... anyone have some good tips on jumps what like to kick your rear wheel higher than the front?

I break those types of jumps down into 3 categories:

1. Small "bumps" less than 1-1.5 feet tall.
   
   Sometimes these can be wheelied over.  Not a really high wheelie, just enough to get the front tire over (or just past the top of) the bump.  Here's a video clip of me trying to do this.  Sorry about the size (1.5 MB) but I don't have anything to trim the .mpg.  http://www.mindspring.com/~mnyland/TNT_041303/Gomer_Bumps1.mpg
   
2. Steep jumps that are 2-4 feet tall. 
   
   These, IMNSHO, are the toughest.  By the time the rear wheel hits the jump, the front is already in the air.  This kicks the rear end up and the front down rather violently.  The only way I have to do these is to stay on the gas very hard all the way over the jump and even once in the air.  This is one of the few times I advocate keeping a very firm grip on the bars and even pulling back.  Most (other) jumps can be negotiated with proper throttle control, gear selection, and body positioning, but these kinds of kickers require more brute force (for me, anyway).
   
3. Taller jumps with a lip, large rock, or hole near the top that kick the rear as it is leaving the jump.
   
   Many times these can be avoided by taking the time to inspect the jump face and find a spot where there is less of (or no) kicker.  Since most people tend to ride the middle of a jump, the far right or left sides tend to be smoother.
   
   If I can't avoid the kicker (and many times you don't want to if you want to use it for additional lift), I use pretty much the same technique as #2.  Be ready to panic rev in the air to help pull the front up.  If you have the time and composure, shifting up once in the air will help even more.

 

[WhKnuckle]

On my CR500AF, I find two things to be really important: Keep your legs bent and let the bike rise up under you rather than tightening your legs and pushing the bike down which really rotates the bike front-high; and clamp your knees on the seat just behind the tank before take-off to allow you to flow with the bike better. Most of the time when I have problems on jumps, it's because I'm too tight and nervous and not controlling the bike. Hold on with the knees and keep loose and you won't have to fight the bike so much.

You won't win a lot of fights with 500s...

 

[SpectraSVT]

When the nose dives I have always tried to use the throttle to bring it up but not once has it ever lifted the front. I can't even pull back cause of the weird position nose diving puts you in. So how does this front wheel down/apply throttle thing work cause it not working for me?

 

[High Lord Gomer]

Do you pin it for all it's worth or just blip it a few times?

When you hit the rear brake in the air, you are trasferring the rotational momentum (or is it angular momentum?) of the rear wheel to the bike and rider as a whole.  So when the rear tire stops, the whole bike then rotates forward.

When you apply the throttle in the air, it spins the rear tire faster.  Since you are now increasing the rotational momentum of the rear wheel, that energy had to come from somewhere so it rotates the rest of the bike backward a corresponding amount.

Since the rest of the bike weighs much more than the wheel, it takes a large amount of spinning momentum of the wheel to equal a much smaller rotation of the rest of the bike.

The more momentum the tire has when leaving the ground, the greater effect it will have when you hit the brake.  So if you launch hard on the gas, a brake tap will have much more of an effect.

Conversely, if you launch hard on the gas, you can't really speed the rear tire up much more, so getting back on the gas in the air will have little effect.

If you have the presence of mind, the time, and the control to shift up a gear or two while in the air, it wil add even more the the effect of twisiting the throttle.  The thing is that if you have all 3 necessary items, you probably would have launched the bike in a proper position in the first place. :confused:

 

[efergason]

Well since gomer tagged me with the name Tailbone and seems to have the a plethera (sp) of knowledge on jumping I might as well chime in.

I learned to do double jumps as a novice on a 95 cr500 with a really good mud, almost paddle tire.
Things you do not want to do:

Most jumps are 2nd or 3rd gear unless they are reaaallly big.
do not just grab a handful of throttle on the face unless you are very comfortable jumping. loop outs can be painful.

Seriously though, I approach most jumps with enough speed to clear the jump before the face. While this is not possible on every jump it does give you the opportunity to make adjustments before takeoff.

I also believe you should power up the face on all jumps. This helps to keep the front end up once it leaves the ground. So just before the face I roll on evenly the throttle until just after the front wheel is off the ground.

I agree with gomer on a taller gear when you have momentum it's easier to control the take off. If you have problems in the air it hard to correct in any gear unless you jumped alot. Short approaches and longer jumps a lower gear is sometimes necessary.

I personally preload alot of jumps, maybe because of bike set up or just technique, but on approach just before the face push down, kinda like a hop, equally with hands and feet. this helps preload the forks and rear shock and will give you more lift. The more speed the less preload unless it a biiiiig jump.

The best advice I can give is to pick a small easy table top and do it 100 times in a row until you feel comfortable with how the bike reacts on the face, in flight, and landing. This way learning is less painful.

Gomer, when I jumped on you at Eastbend which method should I have used

Tailbone

 

[WhKnuckle]

It seems like when I'm having problems with the attitude of the bike in the air, it's caused more by chopping the throttle early or late. Early and the front drops; late and the front rises. Timing and not doing anything rash with the throttle seems to be the key - and not slamming the throttle around on a 500 is the key to prosperity and long life anyway.

 

[Mephisto]

Get your head over the bars and you will never be afraid of jumps. A great motocrosser ounce told me that about a year ago and i think it works wonders.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

I did *not* stick you with Tailbone...I was there when you broke it (or was that when you broke your neck at Turkey Creek?), but I didn't give you that name.

I *did* give you QuasiMotoCrosser and Homelite, though!

Gomer, when I jumped on you at Eastbend which method should I have used

You should have stayed on *your* side of the track!

Fool #1 passes both me and Fool #2 ina turn by cutting me off. Fool #2 then decides to try to launch the jump from the inside to pass me also because he's on a 500. Me (the only non-fool in this story) had to brake when fool #1 cut me off, so I couldn't jump much of the following jump. I'm already back on the ground and on the gas when I look over to my right and see nothing but CR500 engine descending on my elbow.

As I recall, my elbow got scratched and flipped Fool #2's bike sideways in the air and he landed on his radiator and side number plate.

I did slow down to look back and see if there were any pieces I could salvage before he woke up.

 

[truespode]

Originally posted by High Lord Gomer

I did slow down to look back and see if there were any pieces I could salvage before he woke up.

LOL!

About the only thing worth salvaging off of Tailbone's bike right now is the safety wire on the grips!

Ivan

 

[TerrorFirma]

Originally posted by High Lord Gomer

I'm already back on the ground and on the gas when I look over to my right and see nothing but CR500 engine descending on my elbow.

As I recall, my elbow got scratched and flipped Fool #2's bike sideways in the air and he landed on his radiator and side number plate.

:D ROTFLMAO... That's way too funny.... I would have paid to see ur face. As long as no-one got seriously hurt.