KDX to EXC results within:

[cadjocky]

As some of you know, I bought a 2004 KTM 200EXC last week. I originally put my money down on the 300MXC, but chickened out when I realized it had around 50 hp. So here's how my first ride went on the EXC:

Components: You get what you pay for ... the KTM has an X-ring chain, chrome pipe, digital speedo, lots of aluminum, lots all ball bearings (vs bushings), hydraulic clutch etc. It also has a $1850 price tag difference.

Weight: The KTM is light. My KDX with an FMF pipe, Powercore silencer and no kickstand weighs in at 240 with about a gallon of gas (my scales). The EXC surprised me as my scales showed 205 with no gas in the KTM. For those that don't know, the 200EXC is a 125SX with a larger bore and stroke, lights and speedo, 2 ring piston, less aggressive suspension (etc) so no wonder why it's light.

Starting: The KTM is harder to start with it's puny 125 kick starter. It's still a 1 kick bike, but you have to make sure you're in the right spot when kicking.

Power: The KTM shines here ... the power is there at all times. I feel like the KDX could have been in the ball park with some better jetting and a fresh overhaul. The KTM requires a careful throttle as it does rip.

Suspension: I know the KTM has got better parts, but unless I has landing a 50 footer, the KDX felt fine to me. I'm going to have to the KDX out again and see if I really notice a great improvement with the KTM. On the trails pleasure riding I think I prefer the softer suspended KDX (and softer seat).

I think the KDX will stay in my garage after all!

 

[firecracker22]

I know exactly how you feel--only I went from an XR200 to the KTM! It was a tougher transition than you're experiencing.

205 dry? you are sure? i've heard 215 . . .

 

[kmccune]

Good post,

I was thinking of an EXC too, but the dealer is 50 miles away and the Kawasaki dealer is 10 miles. I still havn't ridden a KTM but you made me feel better about my choise.

 

[70 marlin]

I took a ride on a 04 200 exc and it was a very fun flickble bike! I still would rather keep my berg.

 

[kelseybrent]

I rode a stock 04 EXC200 and that on-off switch on the right handlebar scared me silly. I would definitely need to tone that hit down for the woods, but everything else about it (suspension, components, ergos) was awesome.

 

[FLBusa]

I went from a 2000 KDX200 (with KX front fork and rear re-valve and spring) to a 2001 KX250. Two of my riding buddies have 200EXC's. One of the things that I really liked about the KTM was the HIT! When that power valve opened up... it just ripped. My KDX was suspended perfect and IMO had better handling than the KTM's. Unfuortunately the power on my KDX was just too linear. It was a great lugger through the tight trails but just didn't have enough uumph when squaring up a berm or getting the front wheel up over obsticles for my 220 lb frame. The KX most definately does. My KTM buddies rode the KX (the KX has a 13oz Steahly flywheel) and said that it was the same hit as the EXC only bigger. They're in the 170lb range so I figure that with me being 50lbs heavier... the hit should be about the same given my weight. The KX still needs some suspension tuning but I think that it will make a good all around offroad bike.

 

[Braahp]

I've tried the EXC 200. Suspension is good.......but too stiff for my liking. Sure there is power galore.........but it will flat out wear you out trying to deal with it. Hit comes on way too strong. Seat just plain sucks. Bike was a little thin for me. Weight seemed about like my KDX. EXC is a great bike just not for me. Maybe when I'm an A rider I will get one. Doesn't matter now though.........I can still roost all over most of the locals who ride them here with my little ol' outdated KDX 200.

 

[FLBusa]

Doesn't matter now though.........I can still roost all over most of the locals who ride them here with my little ol' outdated KDX 200.

I have to agree with you on that one. :laugh:

 

[dirt bike dave]

A well dialed in KDX can work better than a KTM that is not well dialed in for the rider or conditions.

But..set the KTM up right and it is superior for most riders that want to go fast. The KTM clearly has much more power (and it can deliver it smoothly with tuning, if that is what you want), is lighter, and the suspension is more capable, especially if it is revalved for the rider/terrain.

As far as tiring you out, the dialed in '03 200 e/xc I borrowed (from an A racer) for about 30 miles was probably the least tiring bike I have ever had the pleasure of riding. The little KTM is very nimble and an absolute joy. It's like a modern, lighter KDX on steroids with top quality parts. What's not to like about that? Oh yeah, the seat is pretty hard. If you don't like it or can't get used to it, it is easy to change.

 

[cadjocky]

I think the bikes are just for different markets. The KDX is an enjoyable bike to plunk around on AND can also go fast when pushed. The KTM is a race bike that can be plunked around on. In stock form they both perform as advertised and are at the top of their respective fields. Nobody looking for a fun inexpensive trailbike heads to the KTM dealer and no enduro racer will put the KDX at the top of their list (stock that is).

 

[FLBusa]

Sorry to make some corrections here but...
(and this isnt pointed at anybody)

A 200EXC is NOT lighter than a KDX.
The KDX weighs 223lbs dry.
The 200EXC weighs 102.4Kg's or 225.75lbs dry.

Is the 200EXC more nimble?
Just about every test that these two bikes have been in states the KDX is the more nimbler of the two, at least in the turning radius catagory.
The KDX has a 56.5" wheelbase
The 200EXC has a 1471mm or 57.9" wheelbase.

The 200EXC is based on the 125SX
Essentially a 125 MX'er with 18" rear wheel, punched out motor and revalved suspension.

The KDX frame is based on the KX125.

Here's where I think the perception of lightness and nimbleness (is this a real word?)
The 200EXC has less rake and trail than the KDX has. So while the wheelbase is longer there's a perception of quick steering. Another factor that will more than likely contribute to the perception of nibleness is the suspension. The stock suspension on a KDX is well... it's a turd. Overly soft and mushy with poor valving. Even though the bikes essentially weigh the same the generally poor stock KDX suspension contributes to the sluggish feel when compared to a 200EXC. Fianlly I think that the MX like HIT that the 200EXC has when you crack the throttle also contributes to a more nimbler feel as well. Anything that accelerates more quickly tends to feel lighter (again, just my opinion).

So... Can a KDX be as good (or better) than a 200EXC?

I say Yes IT CAN. I know because I had one that was and a number of members here do as well. After installing KX250 forks and revalving and respringing my KDX... I had a "Better" supended bike than a stock 200EXC. With some engines mod's you can get the same HIT as the 200EXC as well.

My conclusion is this...
Stock for Stock. The 200EXC wins hands down. There's just no comparison. Can a KDX be better? Yes, but you have to be a tinkerer and love upgrading and dialing your bike. Otherwise it's just not worth it. On the other hand... it's a great feeling when someone with a 200EXC gets on your bike and says... WOW!!! I can't believe this is a KDX!!!

I have to stop... I'm starting to miss my KDX again. :(

 

[kmccune]

:yeehaw: :yeehaw: :yeehaw:

 

[Braahp]

My conclusion is this...
Stock for Stock. The 200EXC wins hands down. There's just no comparison. Can a KDX be better? Yes, but you have to be a tinkerer and love upgrading and dialing your bike. Otherwise it's just not worth it. On the other hand... it's a great feeling when someone with a 200EXC gets on your bike and says... WOW!!! I can't believe this is a KDX!!!

And best of all after all the mods to make a KDX up to par you still have less money in it than you do a new EXC200.

 

[yortz]

I will agree with FLBusa, on his points on weight, wheele base. But I think that the kdx has 26.5 degrees, of rake,and the ktm has[ 63 degrees minus 90= 27 degrees of rake] therefore the kdx has less rake. Althought only half a degree. My riding buddy has 2002 ktm 200, and he tried like hell to get me to go orange. I was close this winter to getting one. Then on his first spring ride, somthing happend, and a wierd sound, some type siezure, and then a $1300 repair bill.So i decided to go with new 220, We switch off quit a bit, and we both agree the ktm has a more abrubt, and more uncontrolable hit. For the type of riding we do, really tight woods in Wa state., first thru third gears only.I dont think there is a better bike out there period.Futhermore if you read kawasakis pamphlet on the kdx, it seems to be promoted as a woods, and tight condition type of machine.

 

[Moteaux]

I think they are both great bikes. I used to ride my dad's KDX often and really liked it although I had to really wring it out to go really fast on it. I was riding a KX 250 at the time so it felt slower to me but I liked the handling alot. The KTM for me would be my choice. I know the mods that can be done to the KDX can make it a competitive race bike, but for me the KTM is competitive right off the showroom floor and I wouldn't have to have the suspension re-valved. You have to like all the quality parts that come on the KTM which gives it a nod for me too.

 

[Imathorp]

I'm going orange (KTM 200 E/XC) as soon as we get the wife's bike paid for. its so close now I can hardly stand it.

thanks for the insight...

Todd

 

[ktmracer]

Sorry to make some corrections here but...
(and this isn't pointed at anybody)

A 200EXC is NOT lighter than a KDX.
The KDX weighs 223lbs dry.
The 200EXC weighs 102.4Kg's or 225.75lbs dry.

I am not quite sure those weight figures are correct. Having actually OWNED (and spend 3+ years riding both bikes) i think those weight figures are off. The ktm feels about 20 lbs lighter, but actually comes in about 10 to 15 lbs lighter than the kdx. I don't know where you are getting your figures, but the dry weight on the ktm is 215. and BTW, i am so sick of these kdx hybrids being even considered in these which bike is better debates. i mean, you can make any POS a good bike when you replace half of the motorcycle. and i am not dogging the kdx, its about the most versatile bike you can own.

 

[cadjocky]

Figures never lie and liers figure ... or so the saying goes. I agree that the advertised weight figures on the KDX and KTM are close. The 2 bikes in my garage disagree though. On my scales which are likely inaccurate but comparatively close they say my KTM weighs 205 dry and my KDX with FMF pipe, silencer, no kickstand and approx 1.5 gallons of gas (10 lbs) weighs 236. Subtracting gas that makes for a 21 lb difference. Not a huge number, but without my mods it's probably closer to a 25 lbs difference. Do I notice the difference ??? Not when I'm trailriding, but when I'm whipping it I do!!! Oh wait ... I can't whip it yet ...

 

[FLBusa]

I am not quite sure those weight figures are correct. Having actually OWNED (and spend 3+ years riding both bikes) i think those weight figures are off. The ktm feels about 20 lbs lighter, but actually comes in about 10 to 15 lbs lighter than the kdx. I don't know where you are getting your figures, but the dry weight on the ktm is 215. and BTW, i am so sick of these kdx hybrids being even considered in these which bike is better debates. i mean, you can make any POS a good bike when you replace half of the motorcycle. and i am not dogging the kdx, its about the most versatile bike you can own.

KTMRacer...

I got the stat's from the Kawaski and KTM sites. The KTM site states that the weight figure as "Weight (ready to race, no fuel) approx. 102.4 kgs" 1 kilo is equal to 2.20462lbs making the 200EXC weigh in at a portly 225.7533lbs :eek: The Kawaski site gives the KDX weight as "Dry" Maybe the 10lbs comes from the fork, engine oil and coolant. :think: but I think that's a little high. Bottom line is... It all comes down to rider ability and preference. A lot of guys aren't A class riders and the KDX is a great bike for them. Some guys are and don't want to dick around with thier bikes they then opt for a "Ready To Race" KTM. Either way... everybody's having fun. Don't you agree?

 

[skipro3]

BTW, i am so sick of these kdx hybrids being even considered in these which bike is better debates. i mean, you can make any POS a good bike when you replace half of the motorcycle. and i am not dogging the kdx, its about the most versatile bike you can own.

I have to agree with you here. The store stock KDX up against the same stock KTM are not equals. But for the rider who is just starting out or getting back into riding after a break will probably be happier starting out with the KDX, as will the more "gentlemanly" (AKA old fart) rider. As a rider grows in their skills, the KDX can be tweaked into anything the rider wants it to be, including a screeming banshee of a bike like the KTM. I've had almost as much fun with the wrenching on my KDX during off season as I have had riding it during riding season. Helping my bike develop as my personal skills develop has been a great experiance. If I would have gotten back into riding by starting back on the KTM, I think I would have written myself off as too old to get back on the trail due to it's charactoristics.

 

[bcVulcan]

You guys have pretty much convinced me just to revalve my KDX and keep riding it. I think I've done just about everything else to it.

 

[FLBusa]

You guys have pretty much convinced me just to revalve my KDX and keep riding it. I think I've done just about everything else to it.

Just wait till you ride it after re-valving. :eek:

after that... re-valving will be the first mod you do to any bike you get. :cool:

 

[ktmracer]

if you playride, re-valve. if you want a tool used to go fast in the woods, buy the ktm.

 

[libskater]

its just a matter of what brand you want. you can set up either bike to be perfect for you and be faster than the other in stock form. its all just a matter of how the bike fits you and your riding style.

 

[skipro3]

KTMRACER: If by tool, you mean a machine that requires you to work to get around and demands that the pace be blistering; and if by playride you mean have fun in the woods and be competitive in an enduro or two each season, I'll agree with with you again.
The buyer needs to be honest with themself in regards to what will make riding pleasureable before dropping cash off at a dealer. Personnally, I am at the cusp of going for the all out and picking up a 2002 (green sticker cutoff in CA) KTM 300EXC. But I will keep the KDX on hand until I am satisfied that any new bike is right for me.