Kickstarter not catching

[MotoEnduro]

I just put in a new kickstarter shaft, because the old one snapped off. All the other parts were in good shape.

Now when I kick it, sometimes the kickstarter doesn't catch, and just kind of ratchets uselessly to the bottom of the stroke. Other times it catches and starts up just fine. I took it apart again but nothing is out of place, all the parts are there where they are supposed to be.

What can be wrong???

 

[keith500r]

what kind of bike? I know on some CR's the spring on the kickstarter shaft will get weak, and cause what you are describing. Ive heard of people just stretching the spring a little to solve the problem, or you could try a new one.

 

[bscottr]

Moto,
You didn't say what type of bike you have. :eek: However, I had a similar problem on my CR. There are two punch marks, one on the spindle shaft and another on the starter rachet that must be lined up. Also ensure the spring is installed properly. Do you have a manual?

Scott

 

[MotoEnduro]

oops, its a '97 KX 250.

Yes I've got the manual, and it even has a exploded diagram with all the parts and circlips and stuff, and what order they go in. I did line up the 2 punch marks.

There are 2 springs, 1 is a thin spring that fits on the shaft behind the ratchet gear, the other is a big heavy spring that I think makes the kickstarter snap back when you are done kicking. They both looked ok, but if one is bad, how come it works fine sometimes and not others? Which one is the one that gets weak?

Thanks :)

 

[smb_racing]

did you get the kicker spring into the hole in the case that holds the end of it in place?

 

[MotoEnduro]

smb - yes, the end of the spring is hooked into the case, I know just what you mean. The pedal has no problem springing back up, it just doesn't always catch to turn the motor over when you kick down on it.

 

[bscottr]

MotoEnduro,
I think the spring is weak. Or is it possible to install the washers incorrectly by putting 92200 where 92022A goes? If so, different thickness maybe?

I do believe it's the spring.

Scott

 

[MotoEnduro]

Scott thanks, that's a great diagram! Much clearer than my service manual.

I am going to order that spring you're pointing to in the picture. I guess mine is just weak enough not to work right sometimes. I am pretty sure the washers are in the right spot, I line up the parts on a towel when I take them off so I know what order they came off in.

I'm not looking forward to another 3 hrs doing this for the 3rd time :| , but hopefully its the last.

Thanks for all the help everyone :)

 

[bscottr]

Moto,
One more thought. Did you check the splines at the indicated spots for burs, etc. That may cause intermittent engagement.

BTW: I got the diagram from
http://www.buykawasaki.com/site/home/default.asp

Click on view parts diagram.

Good Luck and keep us posted,
Scott

 

[MotoEnduro]

Scott, I didn't really check the splines too closely. I put a little moly lube on the splines, and the ratchet gear went on easily, I didn't have to force it or anything.

Were you thinking if the splines were damaged, the ratchet gear could slip a little on the shaft? I looked at the old broken shaft, and those splines are still in good shape, so probably the ratchet gear is ok too. But I will be sure to look at them when I take it apart to put the new spring in.

Thanks for the link to the Kaw. parts diagram, that will be very helpful!

Moto

 

[bscottr]

Originally posted by MotoEnduro
Were you thinking if the splines were damaged, the ratchet gear could slip a little on the shaft?

Kind of. I'm thinking when the kick starter is released (moves upward), the ratchet moves away from the teeth (overcomes the spring pressure) on the spindle shaft. If there are burs or slightly damaged splines the ratchet can't re-engage the teeth on the shaft because the spring can't overcome the interference of the burs. You may try polishing the splines to verify this. New parts will often have the burs I speak of.

While the above is a possibility, it's most likely the spring. You may try stretching it (or new) like keith500r said. You may want to pull the clips and check the splines while you're there.

Keep us posted,
Scott

 

[Weezie]

My '92 KX 250 does the same thing every now and then. I'll have to check mine out.

 

[danjerman]

I had the exact same problem with my bike, a 91' KX250, which has practically the same kickstarter mechanism. I took the clutch side cover off three times in a 6month period to see if I could find out what was wrong, but I couldn't see anything misplaced and what not. Then finally it dawned on me that the spring might be worn so it wouldn't put enough pressure on the ratcheting plates as mentioned above, but I went one step further. Upon complete disassembly of the kickstarter mechanism, I noticed that the ratcheting plates were a little worn, perhaps too much to my liking. To verify this, I put the mechanism back together and did a little test: I would grip both hands on the thing, one on each end, and rotate the mechanism in the direction that I would kick it on the bike. I kept one hand stiff, acting as the compression of the motor, and rotated the other as if it were my foot, to my amazment, the plates did indeed seperate a good amount, this was enough convincing for me. If you choose to do this test, keep in mind that your foot can poot a heck of a lot more pressure in the mechanism than rotating your hands can. I ended up replacing the ratchet gear and plate and spring, amounting to about 110.00, but I was sick of tearing that thing apart, so it was worth it. Let me know if you have anymore questions.

 

[Danman]

Is the weak spring you are talking about 92081A? I would think if that was week it would cause the rachet mechanizum to slip as danjerman said. Thats what I would replace first. I just went through a kickstarted deal myself. Turned out that the collor that holds the spring in place was not siting flush on the gear and binding assibly to tight. It would not spring back. The collor was cracked and would slip side ways over the spring and the tension was not enough to allow it to spring back. I feel your pain. I must have taken that cover off five times before I figured out what was wrong.

 

[MotoEnduro]

Scott - I never thought about little burs holding things up. I will look at it when I have it apart.

Now, how would I polish the splines - with a wire wheel or something? I do know that the splines on the piece the kick pedal pivots on were so badly damaged I had to order a new one, I couldn't even put the kick pedal back onto the new shaft (without a hammer anyway). I guess they just wore out over time.

I am going to replace the spring with a new one, I really think putting in new parts whenever possible is the best way to go. Except when I was reassembling everything, I had ordered new circlips, and when I went to put circlip #480A on, it didn't fit. The tabs on the circlip were slightly too big to fit into the groove on the gear. I had to reuse the old one. I hope whoever picked those parts at the Kaw whare house just pulled the wrong part accidentally.

Dan - yes thats the spring I'm going to replace

I guess this is a common problem with Kawasakis, at least the 250's. My '89 KX 250 did this so bad, but I never took it apart. I wonder if a stronger spring from another bike brand would fit, or even from a KX 500 or 125.

 

[bscottr]

Moto,
Yea a rotating wire brush, fine sand paper or polishing wheel on a bench grinder will work for the splines on the shaft. For the ratchet you'll need to use fine sand paper, or similar to get inside. I've even used rubbing compound before. Clean it good and inspect the parts prior to polishing to see if you find anything obvious. Remember you're not trying to remove material and only want to make it smooth.

I would stick with original parts IRT the spring.

Scott

 

[KXTodd]

I just put a new kicker shaft on my 98 kx250 too, what a pain the a$$! Did mine 3 times trying to figure out why the kicker wouldn't return right :| I think the spring you're looking at should do it, did you check that the pawl on the part that ratchets is in the right position facing up to the stop? I got new circlips too and I ended up grinding down the corner of one to fit inside the gear?

 

[bscottr]

MotoEnduro,
Did you get a chance to take a look?

Scott

 

[MotoEnduro]

scott - thanks for asking, I didn't take it apart yet, I'm waiting for the spring to come in. It should be here today or tomorrow. I'm going to ride tomorrow, then I'll take it apart.

Todd - yes, its lined up correctly, since some of the time it does work fine. So you had the same circlip problem too??? I just ordered a new one in case I had gotten a wrong part # last time, but I guess it was the right one after all. I'll just have to grind the top of the circlip just like you did so it'll fit.

 

[KXTodd]

Yup sounds like the same thing, the corners of the circlip were sticking out too far to sit inside the gear so I just ground them down!