KTM turning??

[gospeedracer]

I was chatting with AJ last night when I realized something.
I’m really horrible at turning. I just recently finished restoring my RM125 that had been in pieces for nearly a year. I rode it again for the first time a few weeks ago and noticed I was able to go much faster through the turns than I can on my KTM. Then it started to dawn on me…… I couldn’t remember having much of a problem turning when I was riding my RM before I got my KTM. Could it be I only suck at turning on my KTM? I couldn’t imagine why? Height, weight, ergos? But AJ confirmed it. He said it does make sense, said I should be able to turn faster on my RM. He also feels awkward on the Euro bikes.
What I want to know is how can I adjust to this? I’m more comfortable and able to lean more on my RM while gassing it through turns. Why can’t I do that on my KTM?! I know I hesitate to lean too much on it because it always feels like I’m going to fall over, like the bike is going to just wash right out from under me. I know this is probably a tough question without ever seeing me ride but is there a different technique I should be applying because I now ride a Euro bike? Or is it just a confidence thing?

 

[marcusgunby]

GSR i know the KTM boys and girls wont like this but i had exactly the same problem-my answer was to get a Cr(after trying offset clamps/suspension etc)-i am lots faster now even with a slower CR engine.

 

[Strick]

I could turn tighter on my RM's also. I have taken some other peoples advice and ride the tank in corners. It has helped me some. I would like to try the offsets though.

 

[TexKDX]

Yea, like Strick said... just right up on the tank, put your, uh....

Never mind.

 

[gospeedracer]

Well would ya look at that, a speachless Texan. ;)

Anyone know where I can take a look at these offsets?

 

[MotoEnduro]

gsr, don't worry you're not alone. I can't get mine to turn either, er, yet (I'm still working on it). A number of people I know with KTM 200s and 250s are in the same boat. There's been 2 recent threads here in this forum on the subject, you might want to search and get some more ideas, before you spend the $$ on a triple clamp set. I know a guy who put on the offset triple clamp and still didnt turn comfortably for him.
I just sent my suspension off to WER today to get revalved, its my last resort. Hopefully it will be better, if not I am going to call them back and see what they suggest. But I have a feeling I am going to permanently solve this problem by buying a GasGas:p

 

[Mini Me]

How about an SX seat and tank combo?? You could probably find a cheap set as there would be people wanting to go the other way - to EXC/MXC tank - for the mileage - that is, if mileage is not a big deal to you.

Remember that CR's RM's etc would have smaller tanks than an MXC, so the ergos allow you to get closer to the front wheel

 

[agitt73]

my new ktm 200exc turns better then my old 00 kdx 200 did
try sliding the forks up or down in the clamps you might be
suprised mine are leval with the vey top line

 

[ktmwes]

Make sure the basics are covered before spending money on the clamps, spring rates front and rear along with proper sag settings are important. Most bikes are set from the factory with a 160lb person in mind, soooooooo maybe lighter fork springs are in order? Running the fork tubes up in the clamps will help. Anyway most KTM turning problems are a result of the "chopper" effect, front too high and/or rear too low. Other items that helped me turn a KTM tighter was a straighter handlebar bend and a tall seat that is flat from front to rear with no "pocket" to sit in. The 200 I rode recently was a blast and almost turned too fast for me. However in the end, the Suzuki might edge out most any bike when it comes to turning, I just never could come to grips with the nervous feel at speed Suzuki's gave me.

Just another 0.02

 

[Person8]

Have you actually had the bike wash out from under you? I would suggest that you intentionally try to get it to wash out. Do it a few times untill you get the feel for how far you have to go before it slides out from under you. After you have that figured out, then start backing off a little bit until you are pushing it to the brink. You should get to a point where sometimes you make it through a corner, and sometimes you don't. That's good - it means you really are pushing it to the max. Just keep practicing and you'll get the feel for the point at which you are pushing it as hard as possible without loosing it.

Larry

 

[rollingp]

KTMWES

You said everything I was thinking in your reply.
I have figured out the same thing and once set up a KTM will turn as good and depending on the bike even better than a jap bike.
The thing is no other bike I ever owned was as stable at wfo speeds as the Katoom.
Mt suzukis were shakers at speed and although I never had a get off from it but the eyes were wide.
Everyone tries to set up a KTM like a jap bike (sag etc) and that dont work.
Im on my 2nd 520 and I had three 2 strokes all new since 98 and Im told on a regular basis that my bikes handle great. I usually end up setting up other KTM owners bikes.
We see alot of them here at my track for practice.
The KTMs are so easy to work on also compared to a jap machine as you guys already know. All this talk about turning problems with KTMs is bull.
I was shocked at how quick my first 380 turned back in 98 and actually turned the stops all the way out to help keep it from kniving.
This is what Langston does now. I do think the new Honda is pretty good and must give it credit. Will the durability be like KTM and the biggest thing I dont like is linkage. Once you have had a pds system and set it up right its real hard to go back . Too much maint time and money spent on link suspension systems for my liking. The tricked out CR450 I rode a couple of weeks ago felt like my 520 . It was so close it was weird .
No hydo clutch though . That is real noticable after several laps.
I havent ridden a bone stock one on an mx track yet , only in the parking lot at Aztalan. Honda would be my second choice for a thumper.
No others for me except the Ktms and the 450 Honda.

 

[yota]

I've got an 02 125sx chassis with a 98 200 mxc motor, I put on a used set of factory R&D 18mm offset clamps, with the forks 5mm above the top clamp, moved the rear axle as far back as it will go and bolted on the cut subframe from my 98 200. This bike now turns better than my 01 yz250f (which I hardly ever ride anymore) but I think the improved turning is in part due to the MX Tech revalve on both ends and the straight rate shock spring.

 

[94ruck]

If you need clamp infor, click on the emig racing ICON in the sponsor column. Sag setting is critiacl on a KTM, also the spinning engine mass is larger on the 200 which would make it harder to turn vs the 125. RMs have always been quick turners but scary on rough straights,the KTM is more balanced on the straights in my humble opinion.

 

[John 300 EXC]

Aimee, I agree with everything ktmwes suggested, start with the basics. I have seen new KTM riders unable to ride because they never touched their shock spring preload setting, which is typically set too soft from the factory. The correct static and rider sag is important in making the front end bite in a turn.
The KTM may also have a higher seat height than the RM, which may upset your confidence. It took my son several months and some growing to feel confident on his '00 200; after coming off of a KX-100.
Make sure your front tire is correct for the terrain you ride. The stock Bridgestone is worthless for our riding conditions, I hope they work somewhere.
Sliding the forks up in the triple clamps will quicken the steering, as will soft fork settings.
Your KTM 200 will like to be ridden aggressively. I see too many riders sitting up straight as a board with arms locked straight, when they should be leaning over the bars, adding body weight to the front tire to aid in cornering. Get over the front end, shoulders over the bars, elbows bent. Try using the front brake to further weight the front end; the car racers call this trail braking and the concept also applies to two wheels. Learn to use that front brake, find an open area with good traction and smoothly but aggressively apply the front brake and feel the front end compress and the tire bite, try to start little turns while still on the front brake. Remember, the front brake stops you, the rear brake turns you.
Properly set up, your KTM should turn fine; don't waste your money on new clamps.

 

[rollingp]

Man you guys know whats happinin.
I was beginning to think I was the only one that felt the KTM was a good handler.

awesome machines.

 

[Strick]

The message board posts, and individual conversations I have had with KTM riders who have purchased offset clamps, are nearly unanimous in favor of the clamps. One personal coversation I had was so convincing, I almost dropped the $400 and bought them. Key word - almost. None of the factory KTM MX/SX riders ride stock clamps. Remember Pingree's bike breaking in half?

If KTM runs the 48mms in '03, I will waste my money and let the board know what I think. I won't waste my money if the majority of the '03s are still running the 43mm's.

 

[94ruck]

Now the big question...which offset....??:eek:

 

[Strick]

Originally posted by 94ruck
Now the big question...which offset....??:eek:

I have 6 months to make that decision. I have a buddy who has tried both 16' and 18's. You know one of those 'special' sponsored guys ;)

 

[lawman]

perhaps my experience will be helpful: i tried the 18m scott's clamps on my '00 200. they were beautifully made & having the pinch bolts in front was nice (good for bark busters, you desert guys can go back to sleep). it sharpened up the steering some, but didn't really solve my problem (the dreaded chopper effect) which i finally traced to suspension setup. i'm working with jer of mx tech now to resolve that. i sold the clamps. i never could get the bar position where i wanted it. i'm big for a 200, & need to run the bars in the farthest-forward position on the top clamp or it makes it too hard to stand up. the only clamp i know of that might allow this is the oberg, & to my knowledge it won't work with the scott's damper. the plan is to get the suspension tuning fixed, then see. so far, i've had a revalve but still waiting on stiffer springs, which should be here any minute. it's a lot better already, i'll be surprised if it still needs $350 triple clamps after the susp. is done.

 

[rollingp]

As far as the clamps go I havent had a set but those I know that have switched have also purchased the steering damper.
I personally feel the KTM doesnt need the clamps but it may help if you are riding tight mx tracks or supercross. Tracks that dont have alot of speed to them.
I personally ride mostly high speed mx tracks such as RED BUD and there is no reason to go to a different clamp here.

Talk to emig racing they can really give you the info you need.
Most are using 18mm offset.

 

[yota]

I got my 18mm clamps for 150 bucks used from Kesch on the Woodsracer site so it was a no brainer to me and I can tell you that they work. On the 2 strokes if you use the 16's you are risking a big dent in your pipe from the front wheel unless you have a Doma pipe (Gerald Langston guaranteed me that it would clear and he said that his son uses 18mm offsets for sx and the stock offset of 20mm for mx). I have read a lot of posts on Thumper Talk from 520 guys who love the 16's. I do know that my 125 way turned better stock than my stock 200 ever did, I don't know if the frame geometry is different or not but as to flywheel mass, that is not it in this case. As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, I have put my 200 motor in the 125 chassis and it corners the same.
Before I did all the mods (tight woods now, not mx), The bike would turn, but only if I slid way up and muscled it thru the turns. Now it is so effortless that I really notice how less tired I am at the end of a long ride. As I said earlier though, I don't attribute all the improvement to the clamps.

 

[gospeedracer]

Wow, so much great information. Thanks!

I definitely need to invest some time and money into getting my suspension set up for me. I haven’t really changed anything w/r/t that since I got the bike. I figure I’ll pay Jeremy a visit after we move and settle in. Once that is done, hopefully I’ll be able to notice a difference.

It also sounds like a lot more practice on my part is in order. The bike has washed out from under me a few times before but that was due to rider error and I admit not wanting to go down has kept me from trying harder.

 

[*william*]

GSR,

What worked for me was to slide the fork tubes up about 4mm and set the sag with myself all geared up. Turns out I was getting "the chopper effect" pretty bad. Turns much better now - better than my old DRZ for sure.

:)

 

[MX221]

After setting up my new Katoom correctly, I corner a whole lot better. Now I check sag weekly, it seems to be more sensative on these bikes than the jappers.

Shane

 

[stevep]

To save you all the time and bother of listening to too much more nonsense from all these people..
KTM factory riders run a 16mm of set clamp for both indoor and outdoor setups. You can use and brand you like as long as it is 16mm top and bottom.
Problem solved..
Good Luck.