looking for a new ride, KDX, KTM, YZF??

[gargamel6]

I currently am riding a '89 KDX 200. I like the bike but, I am looking for something newer. I want to get something with better ergonomics, and about the same power. I am 6'1" 210, do trail and track riding. I want something that will handle well in the woods, and also handle well at the track. I am considering a new KDX 200, EXC200, EXC300, YZF250, WR250, and KXF250 (reliable??). I would consider myself a little better than a beginer...but far from advanced! Any input on the subject would be great. I know posting this on the KDX forum is sure to bias the outcome! Thanks

 

[gargamel6]

correction...

I said EXC 300. I didn't mean that...I was thinking it was a 4-stroke. CRF250R, and CRF250X are also on the list.

 

[Fred T]

Beware of those mini racing thmpers, they are high strung and require even more maint than a "normal" racing thumper because they rev to 13K.

A new KDX will be very similar to your old one.

A 200, 250 or 300 KTM is very nice especially if you buy 2004 or newer.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I suggest that you try to ride 'em all before making your decision. I've owned KDX's and KX's. This past summer I decided it was time to get something different, so I rode a bunch of bikes. The YZ250F seemed about perfect for my needs. The WR250F is nice too, but the added weight turned me off.

While it is true that the new 250cc four-strokes require more maintenance, it's a very fair trade-off for the performance they offer and the confidence they inspire. I changed my airfilter and oil in my two-strokes often, so the added maintenance really isn't an issue for me. Further, I don’t live on the red-line, so engine longevity isn’t a concern to me. When the valves begin to move out of spec…it’s time for a top end – simple.

 

[Fred T]

I suggest that you try to ride 'em all before making your decision. I've owned KDX's and KX's. This past summer I decided it was time to get something different, so I rode a bunch of bikes. The YZ250F seemed about perfect for my needs. The WR250F is nice too, but the added weight turned me off.

While it is true that the new 250cc four-strokes require more maintenance, it's a very fair trade-off for the performance they offer and the confidence they inspire. I changed my airfilter and oil in my two-strokes often, so the added maintenance really isn't an issue for me. Further, I don’t live on the red-line, so engine longevity isn’t a concern to me. When the valves begin to move out of spec…it’s time for a top end – simple.

Now explain to him the cost of doing a 4T top end - also if he rides the bike the top ends need replacing every 25-35 hours. If not you can pay a huge price when it grenades. Not saying it not a good bike, it just requires dediecation.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Now explain to him the cost of doing a 4T top end - also if he rides the bike the top ends need replacing every 25-35 hours. If not you can pay a huge price when it grenades. Not saying it not a good bike, it just requires dediecation.

Fred, with all due respect, you are wrong. The service interval of the top-end will be determined by the rider’s adherence to basic maintenance, as well as the riders “extraction” of horsepower from the motor. This is true whether the bike has a 2-stroke or 4-stroke motor.

My YZ262F has over 30 hours of service on it. The valves are well within specification and I’m comfortable with that. When the valves go out of specification I will not attempt to extend the service life of the motor, I will have the topend rebuilt. This is a prudent procedure that has been recommended by many 4-stoke owners and mechanics.

The perception that a 2-stroke can be ridden with wanton abandon is a misconception too. If a 2-stroke owner neglects a careful maintenance schedule, they will spend as much on a rebuild as a 4-stroke owner will on a topend. I’ve seen new 2-stroke engines that have needed in excess of $1,000 of work due to something as simple as a circlip getting loose in the combustion chamber. Even if an owner is dedicated to a maintenance schedule, catastrophic failures do happen and cannot be foreseen or avoided.

Yes, all things being equal, I expect that a high-output four-stroke motor will cost more to own than a 2-stroke. How much more I don’t know. But as I stated in my earlier post, I’m willing to spend that difference because the performance that I can obtain out of the motor is worth it to me. I find the power delivery of a four-stoke more to my liking. Of course, that is my opinion; you obviously have a different view.

 

[Fred T]

Yes, all things being equal, I expect that a high-output four-stroke motor will cost more to own than a 2-stroke. How much more I don’t know. But as I stated in my earlier post, I’m willing to spend that difference because the performance that I can obtain out of the motor is worth it to me. I find the power delivery of a four-stoke more to my liking. Of course, that is my opinion; you obviously have a different view.

OK, now this guy asked:
I am 6'1" 210, do trail and track riding. I want something that will handle well in the woods, and also handle well at the track. I am considering a new KDX 200, EXC200, EXC300, YZF250, WR250, and KXF250 (reliable??). I would consider myself a little better than a beginer...but far from advanced! Any input on the subject would be great. I know posting this on the KDX forum is sure to bias the outcome! Thanks

You suggested the racing thumper, now it that becase you like it or because it would be a great fit for him? I only cautioned him because lots of people new to the "new generation" of high performance thumpers think of them like a Honda XR which they aren't. I just wanted him to be aware of this and even that the owners manuals suggest that they be rebuild every 25 hours. (Honda and KAW) You sound like you have this maint stuff down and are capable of checking valve clearances routinly and even are willing, ready and able to pull the top end and re do it. Maybe he isn't -maybe. But it don't hurt for him to have that information.

I know for a fact that a raced KTM 2T 200, 250 or 300 will last a whole season on a stock top end -myself and those who I race with do it every season and have been for a few years. Heck, you may get away with re ringing the top end and going another season on it. No valves to check, no oil filters to change and no tempermental starting either.

Those mini thumpers are a ball to ride I hear and many like them, just maybe it';s the perfect bike for him -I dunno. But I just wanted him to be aware it ain't no Honda XR either. Cool?

 

[dom]

I have a '92 KDX and I'm going orange, most likely a 450 exc but I'm looking at 400s and 525s too. I was thinking 300exc (and I haven't ruled it out) but I road my friends '05 400exc and in 30 seconds I was sold. It pulls like a beast from idle to the top and always gave me exactly how much power I asked for, no "hit". It does not feel any heavier than my KDX and it just hooks up where my KDX would spin. The suspension is so much better than the KDX it isn't even in the same league. I have XR650 springs and racetech valves up front and a 5.0 kg/m spring in the rear and the KDX is still too soft.

There is a lot more gyroscopic effect on the KTM so it is harder to turn but it also mean that it holds a straight line better when bumping off of stuff. Personally I spend a lot more energy keeping the KDX going where I want than I would turning the KTM. Also, you can actually get up on tank and keep the front wheel planted in turns.

The KTM RFS is more maintenance but they have a good reputation for reliability, on the RFS the '03 and up are very similar. If you think the 400 is too much you can look at the 250 and add the 300/351 kit when you decide you want more power.

All that being said I like the WR4xx too but it does feel very heavy.

edit: I'm 6'1 210# and I would not consider a stock 250 four stroke for the hills that we have out here unless you gear it way down. I have to abuse the clutch pretty bad to get up on the KDX and I hear that four stroke clutches don't last long if abused.

 

[velosapiens]

I said EXC 300. I didn't mean that...I was thinking it was a 4-stroke. CRF250R, and CRF250X are also on the list.

actually, a new 300exc is (IMHO) the best bike on your list. it's a smoother more linear more kdx-like engine than any of the mx 250's (2-strokes). the 250exc (2-stroke) is probably an even easier bike to ride lately.

again, purely imho, but you are clearly a grownup, and i can't think of any reason except irrational fear that should cause a grownup to look at a 250 4-stroke. to me, they're almost like motorcycles, except not as powerful.

i generally agree with dom's advice above. if you don't like the 2-stroke power curve, even the somewhat tamer exc version, a 4stroke like the 400 or 450 exc would be my first choice.

-mark

 

[john_bilbrey]

Agree with the folks above. The big 4 strokes (EXC) are friendly. My Dad's '03 450 is a pleasure to ride. You only notice the weight when you are loading/unloading and when picking it up after a spill. It "feels" lighter (and better) than my 220. Another guy I ride with has a YZF450 setup for the woods. It's a beast - way too much power for me. The 250 or 300 KTM would make an outstanding bike for you. I hear that the 200 EXC is pretty pipey, like a 125 but with more beans. Check the KTM forum for the low-down.

 

[RBSOB]

I also agree with the above comments on high perfomance, high maintainence, 250 cc 4strokes. Fun machines... but be prepared to rebuild and replace valve train components and pistons and rings very regularly.Or pay shop rates to have it done. Along the same line, I personally would NEVER buy a used version of any of these 4T bikes...the potential for major repair expense is just too great. Just my opinion, Jim G

 

[CaptainObvious]

OK, now this guy asked:
I am 6'1" 210, do trail and track riding. I want something that will handle well in the woods, and also handle well at the track. I am considering a new KDX 200, EXC200, EXC300, YZF250, WR250, and KXF250 (reliable??). I would consider myself a little better than a beginer...but far from advanced! Any input on the subject would be great. I know posting this on the KDX forum is sure to bias the outcome! Thanks

You suggested the racing thumper, now it that becase you like it or because it would be a great fit for him? I only cautioned him because lots of people new to the "new generation" of high performance thumpers think of them like a Honda XR which they aren't. I just wanted him to be aware of this and even that the owners manuals suggest that they be rebuild every 25 hours. (Honda and KAW) You sound like you have this maint stuff down and are capable of checking valve clearances routinly and even are willing, ready and able to pull the top end and re do it. Maybe he isn't -maybe. But it don't hurt for him to have that information.

In his second post, gargamel6 also asked about the CRF250 and the CRF250X, two bikes that are in the same class as the YZ250F. This is the reason I mentioned my experience with a 4S 250. I also saw "WR250" in his first post and assumed 4 stroke, but it could also mean 2-stroke. The WR250F is a great beginner bike. Just ask Rooster and Squeaky.

I would think that a new rider would not have preconceived notions about the various virtues of an XR or a CRF, and would be willing to preform (or have preformed) the required maintenance. You have also assumed that a new rider might have little to no mechanical experience. I haven't. Just because someone hasn't owned a bike before doesn't exclude them from having a vast mechanical background.

Those mini thumpers are a ball to ride I hear and many like them, just maybe it';s the perfect bike for him -I dunno. But I just wanted him to be aware it ain't no Honda XR either. Cool?

Very cool. Whatever gargamel6 decides to buy, I'm sure he will be happy. It's more important that he buy something rather than not buy anything because he's afraid that the motor will implode. I do think that the WR250F and CRF250X are great first bikes...a better choice even than the XR250 or TTR-225.

 

[Fred T]

OK, don't take my word for it read this:

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=89002

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=88872

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=87822

decide for your self, good luck with your choice.

 

[css_elfers]

Has anyone even seen a new KTM 300 on the showroom floor? The only KTM 300's I've seen for sale are used in the bike trader. I had a 2000 KTM 300 and it is a very balanced machine between weight and power. The reason why you don't see them on the floor is because they are a very popular bike and are gobbled up as quick as they come into the USA. So if you really want one you might have to wait a while. I went team green KDX because I got tired of putting money into the USED KTM and from my research the KDX was the best reliable bike on the market. Not the fastest, prettiest, most plush, ect..... but bullet proof. This is all MY OPINION ONLY and I'm not downing any KTM or other bikes.

Later,
ELF

 

[KAWA200'sRule]

Hey guys I dont want to start a war here but the yzf's are very reliable. I agree with rv6 to "vote" for the yz250f. Many of the 250f's do have problems but these problems are extremely hard to find in the yamahas. The yamahas have great engine and vave train design and are extremely reliable. Many owners have not had to even rebuild there engine on there '01 yz250f's! That is the case with my bike also. All I have done thus far is shim one of the three intake valves due to it tightening up just a little. That is a very cheap thing and will not cost 400 dollars to buy a shim and install it. The people who are having problems are the ones bouncing off of the rev limiters and not following the maintence routine. You need to clean the filters and change the oil often. All that heat and 10k+ rpm fry the oil pretty quickly. If you treat them right and take care of them you can ride them hard without it "GRENADING" on you. Same thing with 2 strokes. If you never clean the air filter its not going to work very well either. The top end will be toast pretty quickly just like if you leave the same oil in your 4 stroke too long. I am only 15 years old so you can discard all of that if you want to just on that reason if you would like. :cool:

 

[kx200]

Try a Gas Gas if there is a dealer close to you. They really do handle nice. They are copied off a KX style frame too. I tried a WR 250 and it has a great motor but to make it fast it has to be loud. It also feels top heavy. If you cut and thrust though the trees a four stroke feels heaver.

 

[Kuejo]

I'm kind of curious what mods you have made to your KDX?

I can apppreciate that you may just want a newer bike, and that's completely reasonable - but is it to own a "NEWER" bike, or becasue the KDX isn't doing what you want to do? I have no argument either way, but from what I've read, these bikes can really be tweaked, so if it's a PERFORMANCE issue, perhaps you just want to make a project out of your KDX? And if you truly want a newer bike, then by all means, I hope you find what you're looking for.

I just bought a bone stock 2001 KDX 220, which was EXACTLY what I was looking for (California - Green sticker issues!!) I had to get VERY honest with myself about my riding skill level (none) and my desired riding habits (family - wife and two sons - 9 and 6 - who also have never ridden!) and my probable use (trail). The KDX looks to me to be a GREAT option in that the bike can grow with me, at least to some extent. BUT - I will also say that I very specifically looked for a 5 year old or newer bike, too. Didn't want to deal with older technology, parts problems, heavier/longer use, etc. But I do like to tinker, and can see where I will go with this bike over the next year or so...

Let us know what you decide to do - I'm certain you'll have no problem finding a home for your KDX. :yeehaw:

 

[gargamel6]

Alot of info to take in! I didn't realize the 250f's required so much attention. I'm sure that gets costly after a while. I really like the idea of a KTM, it's just parting with the cash! I think a new KDX is probably in my future. More than likley a 220. What should/ could I do to the suspension to make it work better at the track too? Should I try and put USD forks on it? What can you do about the seat? I used to like it because it looked "old school". Now I know why it IS "old school!" Am I going to spend just as much as if I bought a KTM? Reliability is important too. Seems to me KDX's are great in that dept.. What to do, What to do. The wife hasn't even signed off on this! Thanks for all your input. I look forward to seeing some more spirited debates on this thread!!

 

[CaptainObvious]

The KDX's are great bikes. I owned a -200 for many years. The KDX forum has great information for modifying and updating these "tried-n-true" bikes. To make the suspension work better, new fork springs will do wonders. Race Tech Gold Valves will make them work even better.

 

[john_bilbrey]

Don't give up on the stock seat on the KDX...one of the best features on the bike (ie, very comfy). Ever been on a stock KTM seat? Read 2x4 hard. A new soft one will run you $100, and they are still not as soft as a stock KDX.
The KDX can grow as you do. Plus, you can buy TWO brand-new KDX's for what one punkin' will set you back (or pretty darn close to it). You can make the KDX go as fast as you want to (or are able to). As for the suspension, as mentioned above, there are ways around that. For less than $100, you can get the springs changed. Beyond that, the Gold Valves are the ticket. Pipes, silencers, carbs, porting - all of these will make the little green machine that could faster than most folks can ride it. I am very pleased with my 220, BTW.

 

[gargamel6]

This morning I was convinced that I was going for a CRF250X. Then I came upon a great deal on a new 04 KDX220. I could do ALOT to it and still not be at the price of a KTM, or even the CRF. So once again I am back on the "green" side! The 250f's seem to require too much maintenance...maintenance I may or may not be able to do on my own. Seems it is more costly too to go down that road (repairs and price). I can't deny the affordability, and reliability of a KDX. I guess it just means I have to put some aftermarket crap on it right off the bat. At least it will be alot easier to find fun extras for a new KDX.
One question about the suspension...
Why is it KDX's don't have USD forks? What are the benefits of USD forks? Is it a good Idea to research putting USD forks on a KDX? maybe I'm superficial but I like the look of USD forks! Shock boots just remind me of XR's!
One last question about body parts...
Can I change the tank and seat to make it more like a KX (and almost all other bikes)? I like the idea of being able to get more "forward" on the tank. maybe tall seat foam is the ticket.
Thanks for all the input. It has helped (scare me away from 4 strokes!).
Sean

 

[Fred T]

This morning I was convinced that I was going for a CRF250X. Then I came upon a great deal on a new 04 KDX220. I could do ALOT to it and still not be at the price of a KTM, or even the CRF. So once again I am back on the "green" side! The 250f's seem to require too much maintenance...maintenance I may or may not be able to do on my own. Seems it is more costly too to go down that road (repairs and price). I can't deny the affordability, and reliability of a KDX. I guess it just means I have to put some aftermarket crap on it right off the bat. At least it will be alot easier to find fun extras for a new KDX.
One question about the suspension...
Why is it KDX's don't have USD forks? What are the benefits of USD forks? Is it a good Idea to research putting USD forks on a KDX? maybe I'm superficial but I like the look of USD forks! Shock boots just remind me of XR's!
One last question about body parts...
Can I change the tank and seat to make it more like a KX (and almost all other bikes)? I like the idea of being able to get more "forward" on the tank. maybe tall seat foam is the ticket.
Thanks for all the input. It has helped (scare me away from 4 strokes!).
Sean

Sean, the fact of the matter is a KDX is a 1995 vintage so as of this year it is 10 year old technology. If you sincerly want to just save money then buy the KDX and put $500 worth of mods on it and ride it. If you really want USD forks, Better ergos, Better handling and lighter weight then buy a more modern bike. By the time you try to make the KDX more updated you will easily have more money and time into it than your results will get you and it would be just as cost effective to buy a KTM 200 for that money. I think the CRFX is more dough than a KTM. But they will have the technology you seek. The mods you are asking about will cost 1000's of dollars plus some machining to get them to fit.

I am in the process of helping my son do winter maint on his 2002 KDX 220, his 220 weighs 15-20 LBS more than my 2005 KTM 250! I pushed it out and put it on the stand and I was amazed at how heavy it is, when I had my 2000 it never seemed heavy to me. The new stuff is pretty nice but it costs more than a KDX. My son is a newer rider and he loves his KDX and it's a perfect bike for him - bone stock. He thinks he needs more power but when I am waiting for him on the trail I don't hear him revving the piss out of it yet so I think it's still good, and he rides it in the meat of the torque like he should.

 

[Tomck]

Fred T,

Most KDX owners seem to enjoy their bikes, but I was wondering if you could add a few more comments about your 2005 KTM 250 EXC. Do find that the 250 has good torque (e.g., for climbing hills) in the low to mid RPM range. Also, some folks mention vibration on KTM Talk. Has it been an issue for you? Thanks.

Tom

 

[dom]

gargamel6, why don't you tell us a little bit about where you ride and how often you ride and what your future goals are?

 

[Fred T]

Fred T,

Most KDX owners seem to enjoy their bikes, but I was wondering if you could add a few more comments about your 2005 KTM 250 EXC. Do find that the 250 has good torque (e.g., for climbing hills) in the low to mid RPM range. Also, some folks mention vibration on KTM Talk. Has it been an issue for you? Thanks.

Tom

I will e mail you what I think, I'm not here to cause trouble.