Millville (Spoiler)
- Thread starter Senior KX Rider
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SterlingYZ
Member
- Mar 19, 2003
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Couldn't have said that better myself. I also agree with the training thing. K DUB will get the form back. What is going to be interesting when R.C. gets on a 4 stroke... as he mentioned on usmotocross.com, about how far they have come recently, how well REED did on one, and how maybe he should check them out again. Are the 2 strokes REALLY going bye bye?? NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Say it ain't SO RICKY!! You and Bubba are the last hope we 2 strokers have!! :)
rickyd
Hot Sauce
- Oct 28, 2001
- 3,447
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I was reading MX Action and got this quote from them..
Under AMA rules it is illegal to fix the outcome of a race (especially if a rider is pre-instructed to let another rider by or is given a pit signal), but it is a rule that has never been enforced. The only time it was challenged was back in 1977 after the "Let Broc Bye" incident, the AMA czar at the time, Doug Mockett, swept the whole issue under the rug and called motocross a team sport (which came as a surprise to the 30 privateers on the line who weren't part of any team).
Historically, the AMA rarely enforces any rules against a factory team, so it is not surprising that this rule, which only affects factory teams, has gone unused.
From what i understand, he stopped on the track before the finish line too let Langston take 4th..
Under AMA rules it is illegal to fix the outcome of a race (especially if a rider is pre-instructed to let another rider by or is given a pit signal), but it is a rule that has never been enforced. The only time it was challenged was back in 1977 after the "Let Broc Bye" incident, the AMA czar at the time, Doug Mockett, swept the whole issue under the rug and called motocross a team sport (which came as a surprise to the 30 privateers on the line who weren't part of any team).
Historically, the AMA rarely enforces any rules against a factory team, so it is not surprising that this rule, which only affects factory teams, has gone unused.
From what i understand, he stopped on the track before the finish line too let Langston take 4th..
Even though this was apparently a pretty blatant incident, it's what being on a team is all about. The point is to win a championship, and having Rodriquez finish ahead of Grant would be nuts - and Duke won't do anything about that. He would intervene if "team riding" got to the point where, for example, Rodriques tried to take Bubba out, but as long as other competitors weren't affected, Duke won't do any more that maybe tell the KTM guys to try to be a little more low-key about it.
- Feb 9, 2000
- 2,446
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anyone remember RC's so called last 125 win !!!
dirt bike dave
Sponsoring Member
- May 3, 2000
- 5,348
- 3
There was also Hughes at Unadilla - he apologized to Metcalfe on national TV that KTM asked Bret pull over. It'd be pretty hard to penalize Grant now if you didn't penalize Ryno then. Like Ryno said, the top guys worked hard to earn the position of being title contenders, so it's appropriate that the team helps out.
IMO, team tactics are part of the sport (within reason - no takeouts permitted). It's not always pretty or fair, but that's the way it is. If it has to be done, it's nice when it's not TOO blatant.
IMO, team tactics are part of the sport (within reason - no takeouts permitted). It's not always pretty or fair, but that's the way it is. If it has to be done, it's nice when it's not TOO blatant.
IMHO blatantly allowing a team member to pass you the way it has been described Rodriguez did is tantamount to fixing the race...
I understand the argument that this is a team sport...when you field multiple bikes, cars, etc. from the same team on any track there is the natural and expected reaction to "work together" etc...but to just stop and allow someone by to get a few extra points because they'll help him/not you is not right.
Also, a few posts back someone mentioned something to the effect of these type of actions wouldn't hurt anyone else and should be allowed...Not true. Points are points and when your racing for a season's worth a few points can matter. Think of how you would feel if you lost a title by 2 points because a team member of your closest competitor, who was beating him fair/square in the race, stopped to let him by...
My 2/100's of a dollar...
I understand the argument that this is a team sport...when you field multiple bikes, cars, etc. from the same team on any track there is the natural and expected reaction to "work together" etc...but to just stop and allow someone by to get a few extra points because they'll help him/not you is not right.
Also, a few posts back someone mentioned something to the effect of these type of actions wouldn't hurt anyone else and should be allowed...Not true. Points are points and when your racing for a season's worth a few points can matter. Think of how you would feel if you lost a title by 2 points because a team member of your closest competitor, who was beating him fair/square in the race, stopped to let him by...
My 2/100's of a dollar...
truespode
Moderator / Wheelie King
- Jun 30, 1999
- 7,984
- 251
Let's not forget that what Rodriquez did did not affect his overall for the day. He just dropped down to the 125 class and any points he earns are not going to change his year end placing.
He helped Langston get some valuable points yet at the same time he did not cost himself an overall position.
I don't mind the team tactics at all.
Ivan
He helped Langston get some valuable points yet at the same time he did not cost himself an overall position.
I don't mind the team tactics at all.
Ivan
I'm not sure if it's my post your talking about, but I didn't say it "should be allowed" - I just said Duke wasn't likely to do anything about it. Really, it's a minor thing and the only real problem was that Rodriguez wasn't cool enough about it. It's striking that the European guys are so obvious about it - that's because a guy who finished ahead of a teammate fighting for a title in the GP's would quickly find himself out of work. Over there, letting the title contender from your team past you is part of the game.
BTW, I remember David Bailey commenting about Akira Narita passing Travis Pastrana in '01 "I bet Travis wishes he'd stop doing that - Travis is fighting for the championship and Akira's not riding all the races" or something like that. Bottom line - I don't think it's a big deal letting a teammate by when he's fighting for a championship. If somebody took another competitor out to help someone, or tried to block another competitor, that's different.
BTW, I remember David Bailey commenting about Akira Narita passing Travis Pastrana in '01 "I bet Travis wishes he'd stop doing that - Travis is fighting for the championship and Akira's not riding all the races" or something like that. Bottom line - I don't think it's a big deal letting a teammate by when he's fighting for a championship. If somebody took another competitor out to help someone, or tried to block another competitor, that's different.
marcusgunby
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Jan 9, 2000
- 6,450
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teams will always help the title contender-if you try to enforce a rule the rider who is helping just makes up a fault on the bike(eg its missing gears) and they pull over playing with the gearlever for a lap.F1 tried to do the same, suddenly a team mates car would get a long brake pedal(overheated fluid)when the title challanger was behind.
Yeah, I can see both sides of the arguement. The one big thing that no one has mentioned yet, is that it IS a RULE. I personally, don't really care one way or another. I agree with Marcus that even if teams were punished for doing it, they would find another way around it. BUT, it's in the rules. I think the AMA are just TOO relaxed on rule enforcement and it affects other aspects of the sport as well. If they don't want to enforce the rule, then strike it out of the books. If it's in the books then enforce it.
Also, I don't know if you all read the Boniface/Larry Brooks incident on RacerX, but where do you draw the line? Larry's little spill about how he didn't do it and doesn't care if anyone believes him just convinces me that much more that he IS capable of it and probably did say those things (sounds like a :moon: to me!). Is a rider's career and reputation worth muddying up because he doesn't want to throw a position or two?
Brooks told his side of the story on Mototalk, and it was a plausible story. Apparently, Boniface wants out of his contract and that was, as the story goes, something he was using for leverage. That kind of thing is really ugly, for sure, but it strikes me that Larry Brooks worked with Mr. Clean, Jeremy McGrath for a long time, and that lends some credibility to the notion that Brooks wouldn't put a bounty out on another rider. A guy who would pay someone to take another guy out wouldn't have jelled very well with Jeremy. Boniface later denied that Brooks ever put out a bounty at all - sounds like Boniface started something he couldn't finish. What a prize that guy is.
When you think about it, that's almost by default - if Stewart hadn't been hurt and Brown wasn't having his problems the title would be gone by now. They didn't have a single 250 rider after half of the SX season and the bikes admittedly weren't competitive, the best SX rider in the world retired on them, they've had so many injuries it's effecting their ability to get good riders, they fired their team manager and replaced him with somebody who's openly feuding with one of the riders, Langston dropped from the 250 to 125 at least partially because he was so banged up and didn't think he could compete in the 250 class. I have 2 KTMs in my garage right now, but that doesn't mean I can't see what kind of shape the team's in. I'd love to see them win a championship, but it will be one of those "asterisk" titles. And they haven't won it yet - Ryno looks like he might pull it off, but Langston is up and down too much and has a lot of bent body parts.
- Jun 15, 2001
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I'm not sure I like Kawasaki's approach. I do like the satellite idea, and the Team Green support, but they need a top 250 rider. It's got to be hurting sales some--maybe not--@ best, speculation.
I like Byrne, and maybe next year will be his year--but I doubt it. He could place 4th @ best in the 250 SX, probably 5-8th in MX next year. As Nikki pointed out once, there's hardly any green bikes in any of the pro mains, 125 worse than 250.
I used to think KTM was the 'poor' little underdog guy, but their maneuvering of late is somewhat questionable. And some of us take company behavior seriously when deciding what to buy--naive or not.
I like Byrne, and maybe next year will be his year--but I doubt it. He could place 4th @ best in the 250 SX, probably 5-8th in MX next year. As Nikki pointed out once, there's hardly any green bikes in any of the pro mains, 125 worse than 250.
I used to think KTM was the 'poor' little underdog guy, but their maneuvering of late is somewhat questionable. And some of us take company behavior seriously when deciding what to buy--naive or not.
