More torque please

[mudwalker]

I have a 96 KDX 200 W/ 240LA sleeve big bore, FMF K-30 pipe and silencer, Yamalube 40:1, 45p, 158main, stock needle w/ clip on top, (full lean), A/S @ 1 1/2, airbox lid removed, 12tx52t drive, fresh top end. I weigh 165 and ride tight rocky mountain single track.
The bike came w/ these mods and has loads of power and snap. I want more low end torque as I spend much time shifting between 1st, 2nd and 3rd on tough rocky climbs w/ plenty of mud. I'll gladly give up top end as I hardly need more than 1/4 throttle (front wheel is up already). I want to be able to idle along in 2nd or 3rd better without having to drop a gear when thing get tougher.
Question 1. Will the k-35 pipe help a lot or just a little? Anyone out there want to trade?
Question 2. Does a 45p jet sound rich if I'm getting some smoke and some spooge (note, I hardly ever get into the main)? Can leaning things out produce better performance down low? If I understand correctly, these things can run well w/ very little smoke.

 

[mudwalker]

I forgot to ask, will the Fredette racing products torque ring offer the equivilant of a K-35 pipe or is this just a baby step in comparison to the K-35? I would hate to spend the money on a new pipe and not have some real low end porformance increases.

Thanks very much for your advice.

Sorry about the registered member status, I need to join this site!

 

[Jaybird]

The best mod you can do is change the drive sprocket gearing to make the bike perform with more torque.
It is by far the most change for the least money.

 

[rethnal]

Switch back to your 13 tooth gear in the front...you'll notice a big gain in low end. I really am at a loss as to why people change this!

 

[Jaybird]

Swithcing from a 12t to a 13t takes away from the torque, or "bottom end" performance.
With 12/52 you are running a 4.33:1 ratio
You may want to try going to a 54t rear, that would give you a 4.5:1 ratio.

 

[rethnal]

Hmmmmmmmm..... I thought smaller gears mean more top end!

 

[KAY DEE EXER]

yeah smaller back sprocket more top end

 

[KAY DEE EXER]

yeah a smaller back sprocket gives more top end....

 

[mudwalker]

And here I thought this was going to lead into a jetting issue. By the way I have found a K-35 pipe someone is willing to trade for my K-30. Think I will miss the K-30?
I do want to go back to 13t up front, I put the 12t on right after I got the bike last spring, It was a bit intimidating.
Give me some feedback on the pipe swap thing, anyone done this?

 

[KAY DEE EXER]

i have a kg-35 and at 1 stage was going to get a kg-30 but after researching it a bit i found the 35 would suit my riding style better ( 35 less aggressive from what ive read with less overrev than the 30 ) so i think it depends on ur abilities on track or trail....

 

[mudwalker]

Yes, but in taking away from top end is there an increase bottom end?

 

[fuzzy]

Here's a trick for knowing your gearing:

The more you make the sprokets closer to the same size, the taller (numerically lower) you are making your gearing. As your front sprocket grows, or your rear sprocket shrinks you are getting closer to 1:1. Obviously, perform the latter to achive a shorter (numerically higher) gear ratio.

On your jetting...Do a search for "240" If I remember correctly the 240 kits require abnormally lean pilot jetting.

Keep your rev pipe unless you want to build an absolute stump puller....With either pipe get a Delta force II red cage. This will boost the bottom end while retaining nice top end w/ the rev....

Cheers.....

 

[canyncarvr]

re: 'the best mod you can do..'

If the starting point is 12x52, I don't know why 'more' change is necessary.

With that combo, I don't know what you're doing in 1-2 anyway. My 200 with a 12x47 makes first gear pretty much unused. USEABLE if you have to deal with some real junk..or you misjudged something (more likely!), but not used often.

All other things being reasonably correct (mechanical condition, jetting, reed condition and such) a 240 sleeved kdx running 12x52 should be a monster torque machine! The sort of thing that even in 3rd on much of a hill that with a bit of throttle would either spin or loop.

The RB carb mod improves bottom end. A properly adjusted AS will be a huge benefit.

I wonder how much more there is to be had, though...comparatively speaking.

Keep the other thread you posted to in mind. I'd say if you're not happy with the choices there, you're just not going to BE happy with the kdx.

.... what fuzzy sez!

 

[mudwalker]

Thanks to all for the tips, stump puller is about what I want. You guys need to see my staple ride, plenty of 1st gear trials like riding. I'm pretty sure myself and the guy that showed me these trails are the only ones riding them.
He had the 220 with regular mods (sold it for exc 300) and had smoother low end than mine but nowhere near the snap. The snap is what gets me in trouble, one extra tweek to the go juice and, well.... but I love it, its addicting. Sounds like the Delta force II red cage is something that would improve my ability to idle along gracefully and hide the beast within. Where do I get one, how much?

Thanks again, I had myself convinced this bike worked perfectly. Now that I can ride it with more confidence, I can feel it's weeknesses. I would not have been able to think about options without reading ALL THIS STUFF.

 

[canyncarvr]

They are available at most bike shops.

At mototassinari.com you can find a phone# that you'll need to call to get the right cage for your bike. DON'T talk to the female-type that answers the phone! She doesn't know her stuff...trust me on that. Jeff in tech support does.

Don't bother with their online ordering process. I've checked it many times over the past year or so, and I've not seen the kdx listed yet.

They're somewhere around $140-150.

Make sure the cage you get is GREY in color, and has adjustable reed (tension) stops. The BLACK in color cage has been sold as a 'II' by some..and it's NOT! It's gotta be a deltaforceII and be gray in color.

Yeah...I know they make a III now. Don't know about the kdx app for that model. Ask'em when you call. If they do, it's maybe a 12-petal cage? THAT would be cool!

Again...if 240cc and 12x52 isn't enough...I question that anything WILL be....given the bike is in acceptable mechanical condition and correctly setup.

Cheers!

 

[fuzzy]

Again...if 240cc and 12x52 isn't enough...I question that anything WILL be....

No kidding!  I'd like to ride this thing sometime! 

One more thing I might add....You say the "snap" is what kills you.  I'd be willing to bet that you've already got all the torque you need.  So much in fact that it wants to loop out "snap" with the gearing you have.  You might try a taller gear set allowing you to use all that torque to "lug" over things instead of "snapping."  If you've tried this and you bike just wants to act like a turd w/ this gear then jetting/Delta Force II might just help.

12x52 on a stock 200 is too snappy for me.  Might be nice with a 2 turn throttle....LOL  :)

You'll get it figured out, but I think you are already making the torque you need.

Cheers.....

 

[canyncarvr]

RE: 'The snap is what gets me in trouble, one extra tweek to the go juice and, well.... '

Just $.02 more.......

I wondered about that then..and agree with fuzzy's pov.

There's something about the description of operation and the desire for more pull that doesn't mesh quite right.

Consider giving a 13T front sprocket a try. Maybe resist the urge to stick it in first gear when you normally would....see if 2nd works better. If it does, change your gearset (make the ratio number lower).

 

[rethnal]

Originally posted by canyncarvr
Don't bother with their online ordering process. I've checked it many times over the past year or so, and I've not seen the kdx listed yet.

V2M031 89-96 KDX 200/220 $ 148.00

This is from their site..... must have em' listed now....
They are $15 cheaper at www.rockymountainmc.com though! :thumb:

 

[mudwalker]

I should heve been more clear, the torque I want, I want from idle. The at idle power from the engine feels "burbly". I'm going to drop to a 42 piolet as my A/S wants to be out past 1 1/2, I'm getting a fair amount of spooge and some blue smoke at operating temp. I'm going back 13t!

I let a E-Bay K-35 go by last nite, the guy got it for $69, o well.

For now I'm taking the afternoon off for more testing as is.

By the way I should post the advantages of having your suspension rebuilt, wow what a difference! It seemed good before, it's real good now.

Thanks again, I'll report back.

 

[canyncarvr]

Not to open a can of worms...

But if it was a k-35, you didn't want it.

The 'k' by itself indicates an older pipe, made of one gauge thinner metal than the more recent pipes.

The 18ga. pipes dent easily enough as it is.

I have a k-30 pipe (besides the two kg- pipes I have). It's relatively flimsy.

 

[karlp]

I'm with the others on the gearing issue. If I want to put torque to the ground I find I want taller gearing.
If you are having trouble with off idle running though......
I've got a near stock '02 220 and find 1st to be just about useless; no good in the mud, won't hook up, runs out of revs too quick. I'm thinking of going down a tooth or two in the rear.
A real low first also will put shift points closer together, won't it?
I've got a lot of 4-stroke blood in my veins.

 

[canyncarvr]

A lesser-toothed CSS will put the shift points closer together...by the numbers.

But what likely happens is you find yourself in 2nd instead of 1st, 3rd instead of 2nd (etc) so you end up shifting less.

That's my personal experience, anyway.

 

[skipro3]

Here is another option: Add a flywheel weight. The theory is this: The extra mass keeps the engine turning when it might otherwise stall, like a farm tractor has a large flywheel. Also, the extra mass smooths out the power band and that is what I suspect you are calling snap. This will melow it. You could always lower compression by installing 2 gaskets on the head or base and that will mellow out the snap as well as reduce overall horsepower.

 

[canyncarvr]

re: Addendum to the DFII

Replacement petals pn for the kdx DFII valve:
2P110-1

It's an 8 petal set.

 

[flying W]

Are you in Lake George, CO? If so, I think you are jetted too rich. I ride Colorado mountains on a KDX 200 with a PC pipe and Rad valve. I run a 142 main, 38 pilot and stock needle second notch from the top air screw 2&1/4 turns out. This is very good for altitudes 6000 - 8000 feet where most of my riding is done. I think you will see an HUGE difference by getting the jetting tuned.