My opinion of 2 day enduros

[Fred T]

This year I have been to 3 -2 day enduros and participated in 2 of them both days. The first one was in Roselawn this August, the second one was the corduroy in Canada and the last one was november in Goshen. It's nice to have the opportunity to travel and ride your bike for 2 full days and especially when you are not just riding the same course both days which in my opinion wouldn't be worth the extra entry fee. of the 3 the only one worthy of being a 2 day enduro was the corduroy, maybe because they have been doing it for so long. (MY opinion)

In rose lawn they just don't have the people to execute 2 days with any level of precision. For the past 2 years they have had errors that ended up with timed sections being tossed out due to errors-small technical errors that could have been avoided. A single day event has many challenges, a 2 day event is even more so.

In canada I really have no complaints, I did ride the shorter course due to my age group but it was well marked, organized well and all checks and mileages were accurate. I would return, hope to again in 2008.

In Goshen the club is really skilled and puts on very good enduros, but this year even that club had some problems accrued with 2 days of racing vs 1. Things get delegated out too far from the ability of the "trail boss" to completely oversee the event, it's safety and accuracy. Hey they didn't have any check clocks off or mileages off but I think for the 2 past years they are skimping a little on safety. A little orange paint on some rocks may have kept my buddy out of the emergency room, same for me-I have not idea what hit my finger and took it off. They had fences with no markings in wide open ares where passing off trail was easy only to go head first into a hidden fence. They had some bad arrowing that cost more than a few riders to be DQ'ed for missing trail. This stuff is just the symptoms of a club, with good intentions trying to do too much with too little help. I'll bet that if they had a 1 day enduro some of this stuff would have been taken care of because they would have had more time to fix it.

So, in my humble opinion for the safety of the riders I think a 2 day enduro should be discouraged for future calenders. If they are permitted than the clubs need to understand that they have a responsiblity to the riders to ensure that every detail is being taken care of as it would if there was a 1 day event. I think they should have to jump through some "hoops" to get it approved by the district.

I'm not suggesting killing off the 2 day enduro but if the club is going to almost double their revenue in one weekend then there needs to be more considerations given to the whole undertaking.

The enduro racers that chase season points really have no choice -they will ride both days to gain as much advantage they can unknowing if the event is well organized or not. I love the sport, I try to give back to it to keep it alive and I want to see as many enduros as possible. I just think that we need to keep any bad press and avoidable injurys from happening too.

I know this will stir the pot and not every one, or maybe no one will agree. But this is a public forum and December meetings are coming up so I'd like to get it on the table. I hope I don't make Tom dunn's job any harder with more crap to deal with so if I'm off base then let me have it. If I do Tom, I apologise.

I just hate seeing riders hurt avoidably year after year and if some one I know as a friend gets killed that would just be aweful.
I give thanks for all the wonderful relationships I have made from off road motorcycling, and especially at the enduros since I started riding them in 2003. I have many close friends and many cherished memories.

 

[Wolverine423]

I just hate seeing riders hurt avoidably year after year and if some one I know as a friend gets killed that would just be aweful.

Freddy I'm with you on safety at Goshen!! Last year it was my son Cody cart wheeling at high speed down a corn field getting busted up pretty damn good and this year its C.Mastin…. What the hell is it going to take???????????A death?.....I'm truly not an advocate of 'Crop field drag racing" down a bunch of feilds! However I do understand that the fields are connectors but som beech what about a couple of pre riders checking the fields the morning of with a can of orange spray paint along with tossing a log or hugh rock "that mysteriously always just so happens to show up out of nowhere for some very odd reason" off the beaten path?? I'm going to think hard about next years race due to the safety factor for sure.

 

[salgeek]

So, in my humble opinion for the safety of the riders I think a 2 day enduro should be discouraged for future calenders. If they are permitted than the clubs need to understand that they have a responsiblity to the riders to ensure that every detail is being taken care of as it would if there was a 1 day event. I think they should have to jump through some "hoops" to get it approved by the district.

I just hate seeing riders hurt avoidably year after year and if some one I know as a friend gets killed that would just be aweful.

It's very difficult to debate this on-line considering the disposition of Cody.

Single day events do not in my opinion corner the market on quality or safety.

 

[Fred T]

.Single day events do not in my opinion corner the market on quality or safety.

I suppose that is true...........

 

[dirtmark]

Happy thanksgiving to everyone !

I'm a bit new @ this game but it's still racing.
I think safety should be the #1 priority @ every event
& i'm sure everyone agrees.
If people are getting hurt , evaluations should occur
egos be put away & actions should be taken where possible.
Of course we all know all injuries cannot be stopped.
Unfortunately manpower is a part of the equation.
But when these hi -speed sections claim riders it's time to do something about it.
Let's talk about it:
How about staking more often ( my bad eyes)
& both sides of the course ( re: corn)
that way
pre-riders can clear the dangerous garbage out for a safer path.It's too easy to wander off the beaten path.
Or chicanes or something to slow people down.(OB)
I hope there can be sober discussions by rider's
@ clubs & district meetings.

my .$02

mark smith

 

[bruno670]

I feel the same as everyone else, especially Freddy. I feel that Goshen did a very good job with both days.(I only rode the first day, would have run both but a pulled knee and hip stopped me from Sun.) They only problem that I seen with their race is they were VERY weak with the arrows. (I did make the second check). I think a couple hundred more arrows and maybe some banner ribbon would work.
I did notice that the pre-riders on Sunday were only less than 5 minutes in front of minute 1. If there is a problem then how would they take care of any problems in the 5 minutes or so? There are obvious areas when laying out a course that should be in question with a solution to re-route or cut out if necessary. I have not put on an enduro but have over the past 15 years put on or layed out several Hare Scrambles, so my knowledge of course layout and the amount of work involved is understood.
I would like to see more enduros and see that every club get a chance to put one on, but I think that if a club has problems from the past year , I personally think that their race dates should be in question. Either they loose their dates or make sure that they are willing to give us the product that we paid for. I know in the Hare Scrambles they are only allowed 1 race for a new track. But if it is proven to handle the race they they are allowed to get a second race after that. If the club with an enduro can't run it the way it should then maybe they are put on "probation" until they do.

 

[dirtmark]

It's very difficult to debate this on-line considering the disposition of Cody.

Single day events do not in my opinion corner the market on quality or safety.

I guess maybe discussing this might involve some sensitive info
if that's what your refering too
it can also be quite an emotional subject

 

[fatherandson]

Due to my passion for Family Enduros, I am not a big fan of two day district events. One club and two events in one weekend is A LOT of work, but I think it is easier to manage a FES event - especially when the Sunday riders help at the checks...hint!

I was one of the riders who was DQ'd on Saturday at Goshen. I took the time to inspect the scene of my misdirection...4-5 wooden stakes and some ribbon would have solved the problem. One of the issues is having the pre-ride crew include the same members who laid out the trail...they know which way to turn. I always try to have someone who is not familiar with the trail lead the pre-ride crew. If that person can not follow the markings, it needs some repairs.

Trail safety is always a concern, but making the trail 100% free of injury causing obstacles is impossible. I think the clubs need to reduce the high speed sections when the riders are late. I will admit that I had second thoughts as I up shifted in the fields on Sunday.

If we continue to include the two day events in the District schedule, we need to be generous with the drops in case someone has a schedule conflict.

 

[Wolverine423]

Trail safety is always a concern, but making the trail 100% free of injury causing obstacles is impossible

IMO I don't think checking the high speed crop fields to be impossible as they were mostly located by paved roads. All I would suggest is to give them a once over the morning of because of the past history.

 

[PoeBrian]

One of the most fun events I have ever ridden in my short time of racing was the 2-day Fathers day weekend race in June of 05' at Harrison and Wolverine!!! All the concerns and problems previously listed above were absent from this event due to having 2 different clubs and groups of people handling the 2 races yet working together at both.

Clearly having 2 clubs made it much easier and may not always be possible but it worked!!!

I would also say that for those that cannot go to very many races in a season a 2-day event is a greater "weekend riding value" when having to be selective on which races to attend!

I would prefer a 2day event as long as it was run safely and no checks getting thrown out

 

[INCA]

Going back to the early 80's I suggested to District 17, Illinois, about having dedicated pre-riders because there was no one available the day of the enduro. It went nowhere.
Could we have pre-riders that have no club connection and are also knowledgeable about trail situations? This would do away with the "familiarity breeds contempt" possibility. Like many other things, this might not be easy to do, but not impossible either.
As a parallel, for the ISDT Reunion Ride the course is pre-riden by an "outsider" to make sure the old bikes can make it OK. There have been cases when changes were made to the original trail.

Young Ted

 

[nzambon]

Happy thanksgiving to all. First of all anybody that helps to put a enduro on meaning trail work needs to be commended. Some of the biggest critics only show up ride then go about talken it down. Goshen 2 day I thought was good. The corn field issues can easliy be fixed by using the start control format and making them safe by resets and pauses. Again arrowing simple fix AMA rules state the fastest riders need to see the arrows and have time to react. Maybe at this years district meeting A MOTION SHOULD BE MADE .NEW RULE TO RECEIVE DISTRICT POINTS ALL RIDERS MUST HELP PUT ON A EVENT INCLUDING WORKING A CHECK. all this from a retired trailboss

 

[Smit-Dog]

I like Indiana enduro trails but DO NOT like the occasional dangerous crap that we have to ride through. Barbed wire laying on the trail, rusted out truck frames, appliances on the trail, broken glass, hidden concrete blocks, metal fence posts, etc. Give me crawling up and down on moon rocks at 10MPH any day.

I like 2-day enduros for the 2-for-1 travel cost factor, but only if those are FES enduros on Saturday and an AMA enduro on Sunday. A shorter FES course has got to be easier to manage than a full-blown enduro, and with the attendance we have at FES events, the clubs may still be able to make about the same amount of money.

 

[Wolverine423]

Talking with Steve Ricketts after the race I don't think they will be running another 2 day event in the future as the club is leaning towards an FES on Saturday instead.

Now I need to get a pit bike set up for the FES. What’s that CC limit again? hehehe

Bling

 

[fatherandson]

The clubs of D17 seem to feel that the 2 day events are the way to go...they had three two day events in their schedule last year.
I have Goshen on the FES schedule for 2008.
CC limit on the adults on mini bikes is 120.

DW - nice avator -

 

[tdunn976]

Just stalking ;)
Do not see any need for me here yet!

Nick, on your comments.....I love you man! :)

Freddy, Hows the finger doing.
call me sometime.
517 896-9757

 

[KTM Mike]

I dont mean to put words in Fred's mouth here, but I suspect the real issue is not the 2 day event itself, rather it is if any single club can pull off a 2 day event with adequate attention to saftey concerns, arrowing etc. Fred's experience seems to show 2 out of 3 cant.

While I enjoyed the 2 days of racing in a row, I agree with the others here that arrowing etc. at Goshen was not the best, and they flat out did a crappy job of marking areas with saftey issues - I was absolutely floored to see the barbed wire fences without a single bit of caution ribbon on them, no paint or caution markers on some of the crap they ran us through. I dont expect perfect safety (safe = absence of risk) - but some basic effort towards alerting riders to areas of HIGH risk is appropriate!. (and yes Nick - I have helped at an enduro..I know it is a TON of work and do appreciate all the many hours of work that go into pulling off an event!)

I suspect, if all the saftey issues that existed at Goshen existed at any single day event we attended, we would feel about the same - that that club had done a crappy job, and perhaps should not do future events until it was absolutely clear such issues would not exist in the future.

I do agree the huge task of two adult events in a weekend is a likely contributor to these saftey issues. The issue to me really is the saftey (and arrowing etc.), not the simple fact it is a two day event. How much of a contributor? Dunno...if it is large enough, maybe two day (adult) events should be off our schedule unless it is two different clubs (as someone else pointed out about Wolverine/Harrison in 2005 - I had a blast there as well), or other assurances of adeuquate staffing etc. can be provided.