Need some input about moving racers up a class

[KWJams]

USRA rules

Move-Up Points as defined in the (USRA) Utah Sportsman Riders Association rule book

1. Move-up to the next higher class will only occur prior to the first race of the year. The only exception will be if the Competition Committee feels the rider truly belongs in a higher <-my opinion of what the intent of this rule is about--skill level-> class, they may move that rider.

2. Move-Up points will be accrued during the year as follows:
1st Overall=4 points
2nd Overall=3 points
3rd Overall=2 points
4th Overall=1 point
The number of points needed to cause a rider to be moved to a higher class the next year are:
A. Junior/C = 48 total points---or 32 points total plus four first place finishes.
B. Intermediate = 72 points total---or 48 points total plus four first place finishes.
1. An intermediate will not be moved up to Pro for a minimum of two calendar years unless deemed necessary by the Competition Committee.
C. At all events full points are awarded in classes of 5 or more riders, in classes of less than 5, only the winner will receive the one point.
D. All riders retain move-up points at the end of each calendar year. The move-up points will carry from year to year and accumulate until the rider moves to a higher skill level.
E. Beginners will be moved to the Junior class when they finish in the top 33+1/3% --after one race.

Hope this helps :)

 

[Tom B]

Frito,

As long as you are looking at changing some rules, here is my $.02.

I think most riders are afraid to make the jump on their own. IMO, it would be nice if you could try out a class before you have to move up. This would have to be limited to one or two times during the year.

Tom

 

[stormer94]

Frito,

I think once the year is started, I think you're toast. Gotta live with what you did.

However, like I mentioned before, points or no points, people don't want to move up for fear of getting beat. Which is both sad and pitiful for a good rider (way to get yourself in the beginner class and kick butt....)

I think there needs to be something attached to the classes that draws the correct riders to each class in the first place. I feel, in theory, that if you had 60 riders in 125, there should be 20 in the A, 20 in the B and 20 in the C.

Now, how do you accomplish that? Let's look at my experiences. I'm an "A" rider trapped in the fat outta shape body of a guy with less than "C" rider skill. :confused:

Here's what I'm wondering. Why is it when I'm hacking around the track and rolling some of the big doubles that others in my rookie-butt "C" class are flying through there at warp speed, nearly landing on me, and actually on occaision landing on others. Shouldn't the guys that lap me be in a different class if I'm in the middle of the pack?

The real problem is nobody wants to move up. The lure of a $15 dollar bowling trophy is too high for some I suppose. WHAT IF, each track changed a few simple rules that would make racig safer for the rookies, and would indirectly force hotdogs to move on with people of their own skill level.

I think, that all would take is a simple rule at each track. And it would have to be different at each track of course and would depend on some variables, but it could be made to work on all tracks.

Simple rule. #1, if you are in the "C" class (or similar 'rookie or new guy' class), then you just flat don't do the doubles/triples (whatever), any of them. Start doing the doubles, even on accident, and you get disqualified or bumped (gotta single every jump and every jump in a series of jumps). Now what you have is guys with limited skill, NOT trying silly crap because they see others doing it. This accomplishes several things. First and foremost, it makes the racing safer, guys of similar speed and skill on the track. Secondly, it indirectly forces the guys that wanna go faster to move the heck up to the next class. (don't want to be thought of as a rookie or that I can't jump).

I suppose some people woud think that it would make the "c-class" riders less skilled to race that way. Guess what folks, races aren't won in the air. Let's get these guys some seat time, and learn some good racing skills, then on "PRACTICE DAY" they can learn about big air (when the can crash their brains out and NOT involve me.) If they dig it, then it's time to move on.

How are we supposed to attract new racers and familys when each class has the same opportunity on the track? If you want more air and to go faster, move to the next class ya sandbagger.

I don't think it's a matter of points as much as I feel it's a matter of figuring out a way to get people to race with their peers.

I read somewhere were they took the points away from the beginners at some track. No more racing for points for the new guys. Guess what, the sandbaggers left and the beginners had a place to learn how to race and enjoy the sport. That's the real trick. Gotta figure out how to make the lower classes un-interesting, or un-cool, to the really fast guys (or people that think they are) so that only the people that want to be in the entry level or bottom classes are there, the entry level guys.

I think the "rolling the jumps thing" is the answer to getting people to move on to the next class.

 

[wardy]

advancement ~

ok where to start.
first of all riders should be abvanced on a performance based advancement system which uses that riders scores and compares it to the other riders in his same class.

Then the organization has to set these rules and enforce them.

end of the season advancement is the only thing that I found that works.

to many track series and such which is counter productive for a rider trying to do well in a series.

C class around here recieves no points or year end awards.
C class SHouldn't get contingency (my opinion), they should pay deeper in the other classes.
AN very wise older racer gentleman told me a long time ago the "cherry" goes on TOP!
Until it isn't cool to win Loretta's C class and get 1 grand in contingency or what ever it is, then the advancement and local track domination will continue to be a problem.
We have used a 12 point average for B-A advancement and a 10 point avergae for C-B, with director or track referee discreation also.

this is a long argued part of racing which i deal with and have dealt with for 11 years. Currently I am on the task force within AMA to help design and make a NATIONal advancement system for all AMA tracks, Districts Etc. Hopefully non-ama areas will do the same type of thing if they don't all ready.

One thing I can tell you. Where there is a level playing field you will find those tracks prosperous, and well run. Where there isn't enforcement of class levels and alot of cherry picking going on, you will find less new riders and a very inconsisitant rider turn out.

its very hard to have a system that works, everyone is always looking to have an advantage.

i can ship you out a rule book if you wish.........i would have it posted but have to get a certain "president" to copy it to me so i can post it up........huh aj? LOL

 

[stormer94]

C class around here recieves no points or year end awards.
C class SHouldn't get contingency (my opinion), they should pay deeper in the other classes.
AN very wise older racer gentleman told me a long time ago the "cherry" goes on TOP!
Until it isn't cool to win Loretta's C class and get 1 grand in contingency or what ever it is, then the advancement and local track domination will continue to be a problem.

There you go, the same thing but said differently. Until it isn't cool to win the C, and I think that applies to local races as well as the big show like Loretta's.

How can we make it 'not coo'l to be in the C? So only newer riders and riders that don't ride very often end up there, for their safety and the safety of others.

And cooler yet to be in the B and VERY COOL to be in the A. That's the ticket, just solve that problem... :confused:

 

[stormer94]

I don't think it would take any additional corner workers or what have you to watch a track. It's generally only a few sections on every track that would need to be watched, and that's where people are already watching. Plus, most races are pretty tight, and you're either in front of or behind somebody. You double a jump and there would be 5 racers in that class that would see it. And the 4-5 people that each racer brought with would be watching...etc...

At the drivers meeting, "In this class, there will be no jumping of the doubles for safety and to even out the racing. That's this set here, and that set over there. Every other jump you may hit as you like... any questions?" I think it would be quite easy to implement and watch over. Be different for each track, where they intend to keep you on the groud, but the "C" riders without points aren't going to be making every race are they???

Frito, remember the Malta track, the big step up at the end of the straightaway? You either hit that at 50mph or rolled over it at 6mph, there was no middle ground, and it was narrow. In the C class there, you'd see one dude roll it and the next duded flog it, it was kida scary. If we all had to roll just that jump, that would have made the racing safer and more equal in the lower class, where rider skill would have won out over the rookie with the least common sense.

Look at the Williston track, just have the C guys would rol the big sets of doubles. And maybe that awkward short double before the corner with the sand. That's it, could even add the 2 short table tops as well. The rookies roll those and we have safer racing, and the hotdogs would find the class less interesting and move on. Gotta figure out how to get the hotdogs out of it and have them move on.

I think it would take ZERO additional work. And completely solve the problem.

 

[Ms. Badlands]

No Tripling...

While we don't have a "club" at our track, we do have a series every fall where riders compete and receive points. At our rider's meeting, Russ points out the three triples on the track and says, "BEGINNERS, YOU CANNOT TRIPLE THESE JUMPS OR YOU WILL BE DOCKED A LAP." The flaggers assigned to those jumps radio the scoring tower with the bike number of any rider who violates this rule. The starting gate person will also repeat this to every rider when they are at the gate and about to begin their moto.

We also have switched to a trophy/plaque system. Only the Beginner classes and 50 thru 65cc classes get trophies, all the others get a cool plaque. The Plaques are a definite hit. I have even started awarding plaques to the 50cc and 65cc Open classes because the little guys wanted them too.

This past weekend we had a "beginner" who cleared every "triple" jump in his moto. After the results were posted, he proceeded to the scoring tower where I met him face to face. He tried to argue that he didn't hear anything about triples at the rider's meeting and that it was a stupid rule, etc... I explained to him the safety factor, and that if he wanted to do the jumps, to move up to the novice class. He stormed off... It is amazing that only one guy out of a class of 20 riders didn't hear the rule.

In his second moto, he decided to clear all the triple jumps again. I doubt we will ever see him at Badlands MX Park again, but at least we will have one less sandbagger.
:silly:

 

[stormer94]

ms badlands,

exactly, seems to work there. I think it's a great idea. You wanna fly, move on. If you want to learn to race do it with your peers.

I think it's the perfect solution. :)

 

[kuhn]

hey, where is the badlands? how far is it away from austin?
kuhn

 

[IBWFO]

This is one of the ONLY tracks in the area that truely listens to the riders and is actually working towards something! The problem we have here in the area is that there are no two tracks willing to get together and keep on the same game plan. Mosier has 1, VC another and so on. Computers would do wonders here. This is one of the newest if not the newest tracks in Texas and is a blast to go to.
Hats off to the effort and hope you continue to provide a fun/safe/competitive track for all.

DB:cool:

 

[Seth_88]

It seems like at my local track, that everyone stays in the C class. There is a D class for beginners and people seem to move out of it pretty regularly. There is a big variance in the front of the pack C class riders and the ones in the rear. Has anyone noticed that if you go to an AMA race that there is a huge difference in the B and C class compared to locally? I've seen some guys at these races that are in the C class that are very fast.

 

[kawicrump]

The track I race at takes the top three riders from the beginner and junior classes and moves them up at the end of the year. They also request/allow other riders to try a race (no points or trophy) in a higher class. That happened to me when i was reaching the podium on my 200 in the 250 beginner class. The owner/promoter of the track asked me to race one race with the 250 juniors. He then watched as i got royally beaten cause i couldn't get the power to keep up. So we struck a deal. I could race the 250 D class as long as i raced the B4 The Hill JR. class. When i placed above 50% in three races in a row in the B4TH Jr. class i would move to the 250 jr class. Course now i am getting a new bike and i am going to move anyways.

Just thought I would share that.

 

[Traildale1]

Wanna make the C class "uncool"?
Make the C class number plate backgrounds bright PINK!
Hey Dude! Nice pink bike . . ha ha ha ;)

 

[MARK IT]

The cure for the riders that are makeing the jumps that are off
limits is the Black flag that you never see at MX races. The track that
I race MX at has this kind of rule on the two larger tabletops, Thay
dont enforce it though.

 

[stormer94]

markit,

But if they did, it would be a good way to get rider to move on wouldn't it?

 

[YoTRacer158]

i dont think the rule saying "if you double or triple you move up" is really that fair...over here 90% of the C class clears all of the jumps anyways, and the place where the A and B class riders make up most of their time is the corners, not in the air. over here the incentive to move from C to B is an increase from $50 (dealer dollars) for a win in C, to $175 (dealer dollars) for a win in B

 

[Dr.billZ]

Take a couple of sandbaggers out back, shoot 'em and then you'll see an improvement ;)

Can't stand sandbaggers. I was out of racing for 14 years and when I went back, I STILL entered a B Class. I am just now getting to the top of my Class and think I deserve it. If I win it, I'll consider it an HONOR to be in an A Class.