New 4-stroke

[joh9356]

OK, as I posted in another thread, I am going to start looking for a 4-stroke.

What should I get?

My list so far:

Kawasaki KLX300R
Honda CRF250/450X
Yamaha WR250F

I just want to off-road/trail/woods ride night or day. Not worried about rip-your-rear-off power, but want the ooomf there if I need or want it.

Oh, I want electric start w/kick backup, liquid cooled engine, and at least a 250cc engine.

What do you folks think?

Jim

 

[Faded]

DRZ400E might be something to look at.

 

[joh9356]

Thanks faded, I'll add that one to my list, looks like a good bike, and in between the 250 and 500 cc's.

Preciate it :cool:

And the price aint too bad either...

 

[sspmxc400]

A few more bits of information might be useful.

- your overall riding ability
- your size - height/weight
- budget - new /used

My experience is with a xr250(old), wr250 and KTM 400mxc - I weigh over 200 lbs - the KTM is a much stronger bike - but I still consider easy to ride. I think in the long run if I raced the wr250 is a smoother bike (ie less power) I might be just as fast if not faster. But I ride an hour at a time and have a better appreciation for the KTM (the power is just more fun).

Hope this helps - also - check out the latest Dirt Rider mag - good writeups on the mid size 4 strokes.

 

[Faded]

joh,

A buddy of mine has a DRZ that he uses for trail duty here in ID and loves it. The only complaint is the weight, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's been really reliable for him with only minor hot start problems, some of which might be due to his unfamiliarity with bikes in general. Overall a fairly good bike though... :ride:

 

[joh9356]

All right... sounds good. Guess I'll have to exchange red for yellow riding gear!

Nah, just get another set.

Anyhoo, I'm 5'11" 180 lbs.

Overall riding ability. welllllllll.... I guess you could ask somebody watching me better than I could tell you. Haven't had a wreck yet or anything, but I also haven't been motoing either. I just trail ride, like I said, and I'm a pretty docile rider, most of the time anyway. I am sure there's a tree somewhere with my name on it...............

 

[motorider200]

Here is a link you might find interesting.
http://www.4strokes.com/articles/400hpcomp.asp

 

[mrannoy]

All right... sounds good. Guess I'll have to exchange red for yellow riding gear!

Nah, just get another set.

you shoulnt get new riding gear, you should keep you red stuff.....red looks good on a suzuki.

 

[CaptainObvious]

The WR250F is a real nice bike that can be modified to run with any MX'er...this way the bike grows with your ability. Moreover, the Yamaha's seem to be the most reliable.

 

[joh9356]

How does the power and reliability of the WR250F compare to the DRZ400E?

I hadn't looked at it before, but I am really starting to lean towards the DRZ.

 

[joh9356]

OK, I have some pros and cons about these two bikes. I have looked over the Kawa, and I love the idea of the dry sump oil system, but something just doesn't seem right with it. So, I have narrowed it down to the DRZ and WR:

Pros

DRZ:

1) ride height fits me better
2) priced better than the WR
3) a little more power (not a big issue for me)


WR:

1) Titanium valves
2) 5-valves
3) seems to be more reliable from what I hear

Cons

DRZ:

1) None for me

WR:

1) A hair more pricey than the DRZ

Still looking for more input from you guys on personal experience. I appreciate the responses so far.

Jim

 

[CaptainObvious]

Hmmm, there are a few problems with your pro/con list.

1st - The WRF & CRF both have dry sump oil systems. This is true for all of the new hi-po 4 strokes.
2nd - Why are Titanium Valves a Pro? Because they sound cool? Many people are replacing the Titanium valves for SS valves (with Titanium hardware)
3rd - To the average consumer, why are 5 valves better than than 4? Yamaha has used the 5 valve head more for a marketing advantage than a performance advantage.

The DRZ400 and the WR250F are really different beasts. While the DRZ does make a bit more horsepower, it has to carry about 50 pound more weight. That's a lot of weight. At the end of a day that 50 pounds feels like 500. I can't think of trail where I'd rather have a DRZ over a WRF.

Another advantage of the WRF is that is can be ridden hard on a MX track. Can't say that for the big 'ol DRZ.

 

[joh9356]

1st - The WRF & CRF both have dry sump oil systems. This is true for all of the new hi-po 4 strokes.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I didn't think the WR and DRZ didn't have this. I was just making a reference to the one thing I found that was OK on the Kawa.

2nd - Why are Titanium Valves a Pro? Because they sound cool? Many people are replacing the Titanium valves for SS valves (with Titanium hardware)

Well, where do I start.

1) MUCH better thermal conductivity, about 50%.
2) Much better erosion and corrosion properties.
3) Lighter weight.

I have been a mechanic for 17 years, so I understand the techical principles, I am just looking for user experiences in ridability and reliability. It's kind of strange if people are replacing the titaniums with SS's, I wonder why?

3rd - To the average consumer, why are 5 valves better than than 4? Yamaha has used the 5 valve head more for a marketing advantage than a performance advantage.

This is a very arguable point(the 4 vs. 5 valve), one of which I can see both sides. Cam angle, valve angle, grind, flow, compression, etc. are all factors of each. I just try to trust that Yamaha did their homework in their design of it properly.

To the average consumer, not sure. Hey, I thought you were a Yam guy, anyway? :think:

Another advantage of the WRF is that is can be ridden hard on a MX track. Can't say that for the big 'ol DRZ.

Don't really care about the MX track, like I said, I want all offroad/trail. Like you said though, the WR is lighter which is definitely a plus in my book. I saw that, but didn't know how it would affect me. Thanks for giving that info, it makes sense about it wearing a man out.

Thanks for the input.

Jim

 

[xsnrg]

For anything it's worth, all the posts I've read on here in the past several months I've been reading concerning switching titanium valves for SS were all concerning the CRF450 R&X and wishing there was SS available for the CRF250 R&X. I may have missed some pertaining to Yam, or others, but that's my observation. Before anyone flames me, I am a Kawi 2stroke rider and I am not partial to either the Yami or the Honda...and I am still undecided on whether my next bike will be a KTM300 or a big 4stroke.

 

[matt-itude]

My .02 the DRZ will be more reliable/cheaper to keep up for several years. It is not at the state of tune that the WR is. The WR is going to be more aggressive as the DRZ more easy going. If you want easy going type I say the DRZ. If you want to get out and really get after it the WR (out of the box) would probably be more appropriate. They are enough different that I think a short ride on each would answer your Q as to which one works for you. Wasn't the five valve design taken directly from yamahas F1 technology and if so I dought it was a marketing scheme there. Not too many F1 cars driving around.

 

[joh9356]

You guys are probably right, the 5-valve is probably a marketing scheme. As a matter of fact, that 5th valve is so darn small, I wonder if it really helps any, or just gives more opportunity for the engine to have something go wrong with it.

:think: I can't quite decide here. I guess I need to find someone who will let me ride both and I can make my decision there. My mind says I would like the lighter weight bike as I am 180lbs. Oh heck, who knows, I just need to get my rear out there and test both of them out.

 

[crazy_man]

nah dude hands down xr 50, all the way

 

[crfisnotgood]

The WR250F is a real nice bike that can be modified to run with any MX'er...this way the bike grows with your ability. Moreover, the Yamaha's seem to be the most reliable.

He definently knows what hes talking about. The WR is a nice bike, its got power and reliability.

 

[mxpaint04]

i have ridden both the drz400 and the wr250f and i would not get the drz. my dad has a drz400e and he has a heck of a time on technical trails due to the extreme weight of the bike. also he is not a small guy at 6'2" and 220lbs, he looks at my 250x and says man i gotta sell this bike and get me a 250.
I don't like the drz400 at all because as soon as you sart to lay it over it feels like a boat anchor commin on you. But, it is very relieble with a solid powerband. On the other hand the 250f is much lighter i think by about 40lbs but it doesn't have the same grunt or overall power the big 400 has. So here is my final words, if you are doing more technical riding stick with the wr250f you will have more fun flicking it around instead of muscling the big 400. but if you are doing more open high speed stuff go with the 400 since it cruises better.

 

[ChopperDave]

Your riding style sounds allot like mine. Although I'm 6'4" and 260lbs I have a great time on my crf250x. Not to much weight or power that might work you as hard as a bigger bike might. If the crf250x were a movie, I believe Siskel and Ebert would give it two thumbs up! I know I do.

P.S. Don't mean to offend any blue riders! :coocoo:

 

[joh9356]

My biggest concern at this point is to not get anyone in an argument over which bike is better. Everyone has their opinion. I simply want what is best for me.

If that be a Suzi, Yama, Honda, Kawi, or KTM, no matter.

I will tell you that I do intend to hopefully find a way to ride these as stated before, but I am leaning more towards the WR from what I have heard so far.

BTW, I can't justify the almost 1K bucks more for the CR250X, can't see the reason why it costs that much more.

Thanks guys,

Jim

 

[SpeedyManiac]

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but the WR is a little older technology than the CRF. That said, for you I think the WR250F will fit you perfect. One thing to remember is there is a bunch of easy (and cheap) mods to be done to the WR right away. There is a throttle stop screw that has to be shortened along with a bunch of other things I can't remember.

 

[joh9356]

That's good, I am really thinking about this WR hard.

BTW, what technology, that is newer, does this CR250X have that the WR doesn't?

 

[SpeedyManiac]

The Honda engine design (Unicam is pretty new, the DOHC of the WR has been around since I think 97 or 98 in production bikes). Honestly, I think the WR is probably the bike for you. And that's coming from a Honda lover (even though I just recently switched brands, I still think Honda makes some of the best bikes on the market).

 

[joh9356]

I guess I am just trying to figure out why you keep saying that the WR is "the bike for me". Is it just a feeling? That's fine, I trust those almost more than a logical reason... :nod:

Bolt for bolt the CR and WF seem almost identical in their mechanics and characters. They weigh the same, have close to the same engine and HP, etc. The only difference is a fairly decent price difference.