no engine compression - please advise!

[ChuckyBoy]

During and Enduro this weekend I took a creative line around a creek crossing bottleneck. Bad decision on my part. I went over the bars and my 98 220 got COMPLETELY submerged.

I pushed the bike to the edge of the creek bank and pulled the plug and wrung out the air filter. I kicked the bike over like mad to try to get the water out of the cylinder. To make matters worse, as the air filter was off and my air box totally exposed, a rider went by and in doing so, filled my air box with loose dirt. I was never able to get my bike started.

Back at camp I pulled the plug again and turned the bike upside down and worked the kicker up and down several times. I was amazed at the amount of water that came out of the cylinder and the silencer.

After spraying WD 40 into the cylinder and replacing the plug with a new one, the bike began to fire and almost started. In an effort to avoid further damage to the cylinder I decided to wait until I got home to clean the carb and air box before I got the bike running.

Here’s where my problems start. Thanks for sticking with me so far.

Once I cleaned the carb and air box and tried to start the bike, I got no compression whatsoever, even with the wash plug in the silencer, it feel as though there was no plug installed. I was easily able work the kicker down with my hand.

What puzzles me about this whole mess is that out at camp the compression was good and the bike almost started. After cleaning the air box and the carb, I’m getting practically zero compression.

I am in the process of tearing the bike down in preparation for a new top end. I think it is a forgone conclusion that the bike will need it.

Do you guys think a new top end will solve my compression problem or do you think I will also need to replace my crankshaft oil seals? Could it be anything else?

I’ve never done a top end before but I feel with the information on this forum I can handle the job. Getting into the bottom end for the crankshaft seals is an entirely different matter. I don’t believe I can handle that one.

I welcome any input that you might have as to what may be causing my compression problem. Also, any advice you have for fixing the problem would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the lengthy post. I tired to be as thorough as I could in explaining the situation.

Regards,
Chuck

 

[levert]

Wow , bad luck.
I once had a complete new motor installed in my 500.Drove into quicksand stuff, before I could hit the kill switch it inhaled mudwater and destroyed everything.
Its bad when theres mud in the exhaust!!
If there was just water in there your okay, what concerns me is the dirt. Once dirt was been churned through a motor you really got to look at everything.
There is most certain damage to your piston and rings, hope your cylinder is okay, it could have been scored.Since dirt was drawn through all your bearings in the bottom end are suspect and should be inspected.
If it were my motor I'd pull the whole thing out, take the topend off and use some ATF to thoroughly wash the bottom out, maybe you'll get lucky on this. If you feel anything at all you have to get to the main bearings and connecteing rod bearings for closer inspection and possible replacement.
Nothing worse than replacing the top end just to have your connecting rod bottom go out and gernade your motor.

If I drown a bike I immediately take the filter off and plug out.Check the airbox that is clean, no dirt got past filter, really wipe the area(I always carry a small towel) .Put bike upside down and turn motor over to expel water,sometimes you have to have it up on the back wheel in wheelie position to clear pipe.Wring out filter , clean with some premix and reoil with premix or oil if you have it, plain motor oil will get you buy.Put new plug in,kick.

Better to really go over motor now, I know its a pain but its better than breaking down in the middle of no where in the future.

 

[Duneman]

Wow, sorry, most likey I hope, your crank seals should be okay, but the rings and piston went quick trying to grind any muddy water even with it up side down getting water out you still had to turn it over and it was quietly grinding away like a meat grinder only your topend was the meat. Get a complet top end gasket kit, and have your cylinder inspected by a mechanic, then procede with getting the topend kit. make sure your powervalve is nice and clean also. good luck.

 

[ChuckyBoy]

levert, and Duneman,

Thanks for the input.

I've got the top end torn down and the best I can tell it looks like the bottom end is going to be OK. Everthing turns smoothly and the rod has no up and down play and very little side to side play.

When I took out the old piston the rings were shot. It's hard to explain but they were gummed up and sticking in the groove. They also had lost all of the outward tension that normally keep them close to the cylinder wall. I am attributing my loss of compression to this fact.

The cylinder has a tiny scratch. I can't feel it with my finger tip but I can with my fingernail. It's not deep enough to actually snag my fingernail but just deep enought to make a tiny click sound when I pass my nail over it. I am having the cylinder inspected this evening.

If the cylinder passes inspection I'll be ordering parts from FRP immediately.

Like I said earlier, this is the first time I've rebuilt a top end. Wish me luck.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[levert]

Just go slow and you'll be okay.
I still have problems putting the c clips in,had one spring out on me again , took an hour to find it.
Sometimes a small scratch won't be that bad, if you know your going to keep the bike for awhile a re nikasil of the cylinder is in order.
Have fun!

 

[Jon K.]

levert, and Duneman,


When I took out the old piston the rings were shot. It's hard to explain but they were gummed up and sticking in the groove. They also had lost all of the outward tension that normally keep them close to the cylinder wall. I am attributing my loss of compression to this fact.


Thanks,
Chuck

Chuck;

I'd bet the piston got smushed down on the rings when the engine sucked water. Water doesn't compress.

I've seen engines put the cylinder and head into the bottom of the gas tank. Ugly!

Are you getting a new piston as well?

 

[ChuckyBoy]

OK...

Good news and bad news.

Good news:

I talked to Jeff at FRP yesterday. He was very helpful, kind and quick. SUPER customer service. Wiseco top end kit, gaskets, and reeds are on their way.


Bad news:

I had my cylinder inspected last night and the inspection revealed that the plating has worn down to the aluminum around the exhaust port.

Anyway, I'm still weighing my options at this point. The option I've definitely ruled out is a new cylinder from Bike Bandit. It's 466 dollars!

Decisions, decisions, decisions.


Later,
Chuck

 

[canyncarvr]

You can get it bored and replated from a number of places...Langcourt for one. Around $150. If you're even thinking about porting work, now is the time cuz you should have the cylinder replated after it's ported.

EG's 225 'kit' for the 200 consists of an overbore/port/replate. Kind'a late for that if you've already ordered replacement parts.

Something to consider.

Find the reason for no compression?

 

[89kdx200rdr]

man thats funny

 

[JasonWho]

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[ChuckyBoy]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

The latest news...Fredette had in stock, a 220 cylinder with a fresh plate job and porting work already done. I'm sending mine in as core exchange. It's gonne be more expensive than having mine replated but not by much. Plus, the turn around time will be alot less.


CC,

As to finding the reason for no compression, I feel 99 percent certain that my stuck (in the groove) rings were the cause of my compression problems.

Once I get the new cylinder, piston, and rings I'll know for certain if that was the cause.

JasonWho,

I was nearly ready to send my cylinder off to Forward Motion for replating. That's when I called Fredette. I feel by going with him my down time would be cut considerably. That's not a knock on EG, just a time issue with me personally.

Thanks again,
Chuck

 

[JasonWho]

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