tri-mx'er

Member
May 23, 2001
95
0
Hi all,
I recently bought a 3 shoe polini clutch for my kids husky pro sr. I installed it like the directions said ()()()()(l , the flat washer at the bottom is .060 thk.
Here's the problem. The thing seems to engage at about where I think it should be (quite a bit higher RPM than stock, but not too high), but it seems to hit too smoothly, like its slipping some. It doesn't spin the tires at every turn like I see a lot of the bikes at the track doing. I thought maybe that one shoe was engaging before the others, so I took it back apart to check it out.
Here's what I found. I measured out each washer and stacked them within .002" of each other. The bolt shanks and clutch hub all measured within .001". Good. But the shoes are way off. They measure (from the OD of the shoe to the portion that contacts the hub) up to .014" different from each other. (2 shoes are within .003"). I also measured the depth of the counterbore (where the washers fit), and it reflected the .014" variation, indicating that there is a definite difference at the OD of the assembly, causing one shoe to hit before the others. Each shoe will have a different spring load on it when it touches the basket.
Here's what I did to hopefully correct this. Luckily, I am a machinist, so I just made up some new washers, one .063" thk, and one .074"thk, and assembled the clutch. This way they should all have the same spring load on them at the point of contact. But the shoe with the thicker washer is under more tension at all other times. (I sure hope I am making this understandable).
Is this an acceptable solution? I started wondering about the weight of the shoes being different, but havent actually weighed them. I even wondered if the shoes are supposed to be different thicknesses, and perhaps I am messing everything up. There are so many variables, I am not sure if I am accomplishing anything here.
I plan on trying the thing tomorrow, and I will post the results. If anyone has a suggestion I would surely appreciate it though.
Rich
 

Ol'89r

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 27, 2000
6,958
45
tri-mx'er.

Try restacking the washers in a different sequence. You may have too much spring tenstion on the washers for the clutch to engage properly, requiring too much rpm.

Try, ((()()()(l. Or, (()()()()l.

Once the clutch wears in, the difference in shoe thickness shouldn't make a difference.

Just my $ .02.

Ol'89r
 

Jasle

Sponsoring Member
Nov 27, 2001
1,358
0
The guy that owns MH racing said this about the setup of the Polini clutch "4 spaceships and 1 flat washer. Checked externally. Complete stacks. Should mic .410 Really makes the bike rip. Thanks"
That would seem to indicate your setup is different. I'm not sure about the Polini setup but the Cobra setup should never have the shoes loose on the arbor. once they start getting loose its time for a new set of clutch springs. You can find a polini forum here http://senac.com/forums/12085/
Also the polini and husky have different power characteristics. Also the polini has about 3hp on the husky. husky is claiming 9hp and polini is 13-14.4 from what i have heard.
Jason
 

tri-mx'er

Member
May 23, 2001
95
0
Thanks for the responses guys. I got home this morning and tried the settup, and it sucked. Apparantly its just what you mentioned, that I have 1 too many bellvilles in my stack. I must have been pretty close to the limit before, since it worked pretty well, but not great. When I first got the thing I installed it "4 spaceships and .060"flats", but it wasn't much different that stock. I called Action, and Martin said I need the extra bellville. He said that the Morini clutch baskets varied greatly, thats why I must use trial and error. I added the extra washer, and it was a big help, but still not quite right. Thats why I added still more. Well, I went overboard I guess. I got rid of the extra bellville this morning, but still used the different thickness flats, and it worked much better. I want it to be the best possible, so I am still experimenting, though. I increased all thress flats .010", and am now waiting for the locktite to set up. If I didn't go too far again, this should be perfect for my application. thanks again. And thanks for the new forum site too.
rich
 

Jasle

Sponsoring Member
Nov 27, 2001
1,358
0
The polini guys around here rave about the Dominator. We run Cobras and get good pricing on stock parts so I stick with them. You might try one of those. Also the clutch that was mentioned in the other husky clutch thread looks pretty cool. Just haven't tried one.
JAson
 

tri-mx'er

Member
May 23, 2001
95
0
Well, after a few more experiments, I believe I have it about perfect. I ended up with 4 spaceships and .078" flats. I finally got the thickness of the flats just right, using different thicknesses for the shoe variance, but before I was finished, I averaged them out and tried all 3 flats the same. I couldn't tell a difference, so I went with that. I am real happy with it now. I guess I was over-engineering the thing after I discovered the difference in the shoes. Still, it think they should have come as a matched set.
I almost bought a dominator, I probably would have been ahead in the long run, but I couldn't swing the $400. Hindsight is always 20-20 though. Now I need for something to wear out on it so I can justify splitting and matching the cases. :cool:
rich
 

Xtreme_racer

Member
Jul 31, 2001
14
0
Hey Guys,

I work for the Franco Morini importer here in the UK, and we're experiencing similar problems with our new S6 3 shoe racing clutch. We have a special tool for setting the correct torque on the shoes, but have not had a go at changing the shim stacks.
The polini clutch sounds very similar to ours, and I was wondering if anybody's had any experiences setting up the Franco Morini version? Does anybody have a picture of the Polini version that they could post?

Any info you've got would be helpful

Regards

Loz

We have a special tool for setting the correct torque on the shoes, but have not had a go at changing the shim stacks.
 

Jasle

Sponsoring Member
Nov 27, 2001
1,358
0
I don't have a picture but the Polini version is almost the exact same as ours. They use a diffferent stack. 4 spaceships but the use the same .410 thickness of stack. they also have a hole on the side of the shoe both sides to allow more lubrication to get to the shoes. I have taken my morini shoes and drilled a hole 1/4" through the sides to increase the flow of fluid to the washers. This has resulted in longer washer stack life. I am now experimenting with drilling smaller holes at 45º instead of the single 1/4" hole at 90º. I figure having the smaller holes at 45º will draw fluid through the stack sort of like an impeller. Hard to explain but I could draw a picture and fax it if you give me a number. I run a 99Cobra with the Franco Morini Motor. Our temps during summer is around 43ºC so the motors run hot! We typically use ATF for fluid. Our clutches tend to last but the washer stacks do not.

Give me a pm with fax # and I can send a pic

Jason Renville
 

Xtreme_racer

Member
Jul 31, 2001
14
0
Jasle, the polini clutch your using, does it mount on the crank shaft with a tappered centre hub, or a splined centre hub? The Franco Morini clutch I'm talking about, is the one used in the 2003 Husky's and the 2001/02 DB motors (Franco Morini S6 engine). It looks like this


Has anybody used one of these in the new Morini S6 engine, and got any experience, info, tips, disasters about using them?
 

Xtreme_racer

Member
Jul 31, 2001
14
0
I'm not sure if the picture will display properly. If it doesn't can somebody please explain how to post pictures :confused: , and if that doesn't work, I'm happy to e-mail you a copy if you let me know your e-mail address.
 

agitt73

~SPONSOR~
May 11, 2000
1,078
0
the morini engines dont hold up to stress very well thats
why ktm switched to another engine builder
 

Xtreme_racer

Member
Jul 31, 2001
14
0
Working for the Franco Morini importer, I know exactly why KTM no longer uses the Morini engine. And I can assure you it's not down to reliability or strength.
While on the subject of strength and reliability, I don't know about the US, but here in the UK the new KTM/Beta engine is suffering with clutch and cooling problems. If a week goes by, and I dont take a phone call about another KTM seizing up, then somethings gone wrong in the world :eek:
While on the other hand you have the new Morini S6 engine, which we've now been running for 15 months, and so far there have not been any reliability issues. Then again the S5 engine had a model run of 20years, with only minor problems. Not a bad record I guess!

Jasle, the picture of the clutch is on it's way to you. If you can e-mail me a picture of the clutch your running, that would be great.

Loz
 

Jasle

Sponsoring Member
Nov 27, 2001
1,358
0
The only reliability issue we have found in our motor has been the needle bearings on the intermediate shaft. We build up the outside of the case with epoxy and then drill a hole from the insie into the epoxy. This new channel allows trans fluid to flow behind the needle bearing and increases life. We run these motors hard both its over 100ºF and we ride all summer. The only problems we really see is the stator going bad often and clutch washer stacks going south quickly.
BTW Cobra switched liquid cooled version of the motor but its basically the same as before with the addition of a water pump.
Jason
 

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