Possible clutch problem?

[O3RM125]

I just got back into the sport about a month ago and have done very little riding since getting the bike.

I noticed one thing that is a bother for sure, the bike will not idle in gear with the clutch pulled in, I would say the clutch is not engaging all the way(or is it disengaging? not sure), the bike rides fine with the clutch lever out, no slipping. None of the bikes I had when I was young did this, I have tried adjusting at the perch and it helped some but its still awkward to me.

I did some searching around on the web and found some people who said "Thats how Suzuki's are" and others who suggested fixing/replacing "this part and that part". I have also seen alot of talk about the clutch baskets going bad on some bikes, could this be my issue?

I will be riding with my son alot who is brand new to riding, so being able to stop in first gear with the clutch in would make things a little easier.

Thanks for any help.

 

[IndyMX]

Check your clutch basket, it may be notched badly.. If so, you may be able to file it, but if it's too bad you will have to replace the basket.

 

[Chili]

Is the bike lurching and stalling, or just not idling? Most MX bikes are not setup to idle more than a few seconds without stalling. If it's lurching then pull apart the clutch check the springs and plates to spec and inspect the basket a hub for notching. Depending on how many hours are on that 03 I would suspect it's due for some clutch tlc.

 

[O3RM125]

No lurching, or jumping. But if your not maintaining the idle with the throttle and you just put it in first gear itll die, forcing you to go back to neutral, start the bike and go again since it will not start in gear without some throttle.

It seems to me once you do have the bike in gear and are lightly reving the motor to keep it from dieing that at that point it is slipping the clutch, like you just cant pull the lever in far enough- of course I am trying with both a full hand on the lever and just two fingers. The bike doesnt start to take off, but you can hear it in the motor, and sorta feel that its getting some resistance. Its basically like if you stopped in gear on another bike and let the clutch out just far enough to put drag on the motor but not enough to actually move the bike.

I would guess that the clutch has never been serviced on this bike, and if so it was early on in its life. May wait a ride or two and then pull the cover and get into replacing parts.

 

[Chili]

The clutch is without a doubt a weak link on that bike and if it's all original with any amount of hours it's likely due to have some replacement parts. My son raced an 03 for two seasons, well 1.5 I guess when you consider injury timeouts and in that time he went through 3 hubs, two baskets and several sets of plates. I was looking for a clutch abuse registry to sign him up :laugh:

It is best to keep an eye on the clutch as it's a fairly simple tear down for inspection, we left both baskets in too long and eventually broke clutch plates because of it which caused a bunch of grief because both times a piece of broken plate ended up in the gearbox.

 

[O3RM125]

I got to tune/ride the bike a bit more today, a good 10-15min or so, only on the street though :( It will idle now no problem in neutral, the air screw was way way out and I set it back to 1 1/2 stock and then moved it to 1 3/4 out, and the idle was set too low as well. Its running stock jetting and I am about 4k up from sea level and have the PC pipe and silencer so it seems to be running very rich(the rear fender was halfway covered in "spooge" on the underside from this short ride, I was told by the previous owner mix ratio was 40:1 and I assume he was using the maxima superM he gave to me). I put a new br8es in it before the ride and after the ride it was wet, black, and oily. I have a smaller main and pilot to try out next time. I noticed a slight bog very low in the rpms once, Im am pretty sure that is probably just jetting issues.

I did notice some grabbing/lurching forward when trying to take off from a stop while letting the clutch lever out slowly, it made me want to pull the lever back in as it sounded like it was trying to stall the motor which overall made for a "jerky" start. Not sure, but I think this is what Chili was talking about when he said "lurching and stalling"?

Does this pin-point the problem to be the basket, plates or the hub? Or is it really unknown which part could cause the issue before taking things apart to inspect?

Thanks again for all the great advice so far :cool:

 

[Chili]

I was referring to when the bike is at a standstill and you kick it into gear or come to a stop with it in gear and the clutch pulled in. It's really less than a 15 minute process to open the clutch up and see for yourself what kind of shape everything is in, that's the route I'd go instead of continuing to guess and diagnose. If your unsure on how to go about it let us know and we'll try to walk you through it although the manual is pretty straight forward on this task.

 

[BigRedAF]

At 4000 feet you may consider dropping the pilot one size and dropping the main one maybe two sizes. The needle in the second clip from the top should be OK as a starting point.

Super M is a very gummy oil. Almost anything that is not a Castor base will be better for just farting around.

That doesn't sound like the correct plug for that bike????

Indy MX has a good point on the basket. If that bike was rode hard prior to you at that altitude with stock jetting you can bet it needs some clutch work.

 

[O3RM125]

At 4000 feet you may consider dropping the pilot one size and dropping the main one maybe two sizes. The needle in the second clip from the top should be OK as a starting point.

Super M is a very gummy oil. Almost anything that is not a Castor base will be better for just farting around.

That doesn't sound like the correct plug for that bike????

Indy MX has a good point on the basket. If that bike was rode hard prior to you at that altitude with stock jetting you can bet it needs some clutch work.

Yep, I was wishing I had ordered a few more jets lol, dealership is pretty far away from me and Ive been just doing the online thing for parts. Thank you for the second opinion on the clip positon, I was thinking the same.. I did a few searchs here and on google and found quite a bit of 03 rm125 jetting comments, was good reading. Alot of the info was from riders at lower alts, but seems like all had to clean it up down low, and some went rich on the main(maybe modded bikes? I dont recall in the reading, but recall someone running a 490)

I picked up a small bottle of h1r because I think that was what I ran in my yz when I raced when I was young, it always burned clean with minor jetting changes(in Socal area).. problem was I couldnt remember for sure if it was mc1, gk1 or h1r :laugh: so I got h1r to start trying out. I enjoy the tuning and tinkering, only worry is it is still sorta an unknown engine to me as far as what its been through. I know its rich, the plug tells that story, it was quite wet.

Its not the recommended plug your right, they ask for the the R6918B-8, but its one of those $20 plugs, I checked that out right away when I got the manual becuase I knew what was in it was the same as my late 80s yz80s ran lol..searched on this wonderful site and found that the 8es or 8ev are ok substitutes, so am gonna use those till I get the jetting sorted out.

I am buying helmets and gear for my son and I this coming week and should have some left over for possible clutch pieces(:worship: billet :worship: ).. I would have taken it apart already but I dont have the cover gasket(will be in my third order of Suzuki parts lol, just got my second that was $75 yesterday) or a qt. of oil around even at the moment, and I wanted to ride it a little :nod: I probably have less than 15 min on it, about 25 hrs of work and clean up into it already, and about $150 in parts. Ive been further into my old bikes than the clutch, had to replace the case once after a chain broke and gathered up in the front sprocket.

I see two major issues thatll cost me a little to fix, the clutch issue and I have a leaking fork seal :yell: I dont think Ill try the seal, I did them on my yz's but those were very basic forks, only a slight preload adj., I will do the clutch and will probably update this thread for ease when I do have questions.

The 8-10min ride was a mix of throttle ranges, some putting around, and roughly 6-8 passes wfo, or nearly wfo up through 6th gear.. heres a pic of the fender after, it was all clean before the ride lol.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g315/sarmikgar/Motorcycles/IMAG0012.jpg

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

We put a Hinson basket in our 125 years ago, it's lasting well. Put a Performance Engineering basket in the 250 about 3 years ago, and it seems to be holding up well too....(about $80.00 cheaper than the Hinson) Keep a close eye on the hub too, they're only about $40-50 from Suzuki, and we replace them when needing plates.

 

[BigRedAF]

I haven't seen that kind of spluge on a fender since the late 1970's. Just run good fresh gas and non castor base oil.

H1R? Is that Honda's synthictic mix? If so that will be fine at 40:1. Yamalube-R at 32:1 will work fine as will most. There are a lot of good oils out there, just pick one and stick with it. I've had piston scuffing and crank failures with MC1 years ago and won't even consider burning it in a camp fire.

Pro Circuit and FMF have recommended jetting specs for your bike. They even drop the pilot at 1500MSL and run the clip in the second position. The main drops I recommended are using the 1 down per 1500 feet theory as a safe starting range.

Have fun riding with your son, we break easier as we get old. I know about those high dollar plugs. I found out recently on a buddies RMZ450.

http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/bigredaf/?action=view&current=ACPround1turn.jpg

Here is a link to a pic on my ride. :ride:

 

[Chili]

Watch E-Bay for clutch baskets, the RM125 basket has been the same for many many years. I bought several Hinson baskets off E-Bay for cheap and in fact sold off the extra one we had on here last fall for just over $100. As mentioned earlier in the thread OEM hubs are cheap.

Off the top of my head we ran a 460 main at 700 feet and I believe others were down to 440 mains in some of the threads I've seen.

 

[O3RM125]

Ok, I am not as high up as I thought actually, local airport listed at 2145ft. above sea level.

H1R is one of the Bel ray oils, advertised as 100% syn. Ester oil "Power Valve Formula", I just got the 12oz size for "testing" purposes.. I thought Id give Koltz a try next maybe, have read a few good things about it. Is Silkolene still around?

I have been watching ebay for clutch pieces actually, and there are good deals, I just missed a "new" press. plate and hub that went for $30 a couple days ago because I forgot about the auction lol, and have seen several billet baskets on there as well..

Are the Moose and Magnum Billet baskets as good as the Hinson stuff?

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

Use to run Silkolene, got it thru my dealer. But about a year ago they said the price almost doubled.....I'm assuming that's true........?

 

[Chili]

I don't know anything about the moose and magnum baskets, have head good things about the Hinson, Wiseco and PE baskets. I'd settle on an oil and ratio before you begin trying to nail down the jetting. I was always happy with the price/performance of the Yamalube 2R for our 2 strokes.

 

[O3RM125]

I don't know anything about the moose and magnum baskets, have head good things about the Hinson, Wiseco and PE baskets. I'd settle on an oil and ratio before you begin trying to nail down the jetting. I was always happy with the price/performance of the Yamalube 2R for our 2 strokes.

I have been trying to decide on a ratio for sure, any advice is appreciated!.. the previous owner said he ran 40:1 and as I said I think he used superM(he gave me what he had left, about 1qt of it). I have thought about going back to stock(30:1) and working from there on jetting, but with the rich setting I already have it doesnt seem like staying at 40:1 would hurt. I understand its not the amount of oil but the carb tuning that determines rich/lean(always ran 30/32:1 in my yz's but it was jetted for Socal areas).

Id like to keep running the Bel-ray stuff, had good experiance with them in my racing years, I just dont recall exactly which oil it was, I do realize though that this motor is much differant(PV, 125cc, and jeez :whoa: almost 20 years newer, not including the slow development of the yz80's back then lol) If I cant get things right with this oil then I would be happy to change.

I ran down to the store and grabbed a qt. of oil(penzoil 10w-40 non-syn.) and coolant for the heck of it, and I think I may pull the clutch cover tonight, will update with pics and questions probably if I can get a chance to do it. I have my new PV gaskets too now so was thinking of cleaning/inspecting that out this week also.

:cool:

 

[BigRedAF]

Yamalube-R is good stuff. I used it from 1979- 1990 in Yamahas and Hondas at 32:1 in 125's, 250's and 500's. Never an oil related failure.

I switched to Klotz R50 when I got back into racing in 1999 and had some unusual crank wear on my YZ250 at the six month mark. The pistons in that bike always looked great so the crank may have been marginal from the factory.

YZ250 with Klotz http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/bigredaf/?action=view&current=image0-1.jpg :cool:

I started using Amsoil Dominator 40:1 in 2005 when I went to the CR500AF and have had zero problems, no smoke, no fouling. The piston was still at the high end of the manufacturer's specs at the end of my first full year as measured by a micrometer.

The good thing about Yamalube-R is that you can find it anywhere...

 

[O3RM125]

ugh, :whoa:

The first drain:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g315/sarmikgar/Motorcycles/IMAG0018.jpg

And the second after kicking it over a few times and a short 30 sec idle:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g315/sarmikgar/Motorcycles/IMAG0019.jpg

Not good looking at all, lotsa silver :( :yell: Going back to garage to pull cover etc now.

 

[O3RM125]

Yep, its bad news :(

Its all trashed, I tried to get some pics but the camera isnt doing the grooves justice up close. I am gonna replace it all, gonna hurt the wallet for sure.

One of the plates was chipped/broken also, the piece was accounted for though, still in its spot an didnt come apart till I was separating the plates.

Looks like I will be wearing a Kombat helmet instead of a Trooper or TLD :yell:

Will try to get a billet basket for it. Is an aftermarket set of plates ok to use, such as ebc or something? or should I stay with Suzuki parts for the plates and hub?

 

[Chili]

The Suzuki hub is as cheap as anything you're going to find elsewhere. As far as plates and springs I didn't have great luck with aftermarket kits from DP and Barnett for that bike but others were quite happy with their results so do whatever works better for the budget.

 

[O3RM125]

I was looking over the other plates they all look ok.. would it be a bad move to replace the broken friction plate and one steel plate with stock stuff to save a little money on the plates?

I am looking at getting the two clutch plates(one of each type) a new stock hub, then maybe a Moose or Wiseco basket so far.. this is within my budget for sure, all new plates makes it tighter.

edit:

Do these aftermarket baskets come "complete" or do you have to pull the gear(s) off the stock basket?

 

[Chili]

You can measure the plates to see if they are still in spec but overall since it's going to be all new I'd drop the 70-100 on an aftermarket kit and start with all new parts. If your plates still measure within spec I'd keep them as backups. I know one of the times we had to split the cases on that bike due to a clutch plate fragmenting into the gearbox was while we were in Oklahoma for Dirtweek. Marshall Plumb of Marshalls racing did the work for us and he used Kawasaki plates as they were cheaper and he felt they were better quality, but for the life of me I can't recall which Kawasaki model plates he used.

You will need to remove the gear from your current basket and attach it to the new basket.

 

[O3RM125]

I ordered a new PE basket, and new stock hub.

Still trying to decide on what plates to get now. There are some cheap ones on ebay, no name for $50 I should probably stay away from.. How about Tusk and EBC?

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

From our experience, nobody makes a plate that lasts/performs like stock. EDIT: Be careful with mixing new/old plates.......the worn tabs on the old ones will bang extra hard against your new basket/hub.

 

[O3RM125]

Picked up an ebc kit for about $80.

Any info and tips about getting the gears off the back of the oem basket would be very helpful.

Cant wait till its all here to put it back together :cool: