Primary Drive (RockyMtnATV's brand) Chain Opinions?

[RADRick]

LOL, I should have never started. I was never good at debate and it hard to argue with someone that can't admit any wrong.

Show me where I'm wrong and I might consider it.

I'll let the facts (and the experts--Jay, thanks) speak for themselves.

I don't consider myself an expert, but until you can show me any error in my statements in this thread, I'm just as much so as Jay. BTW, I believe Mr. Jay (could he be DigilubeJay from another forum? Hmm...) has some connection to the lubricant industry. Perish the thought that he might have an agenda in touting the benefits of standard chains--that need constant relubing, no doubt with products Jay sells--over an o-ring chain that requires less of said products. :think:

 

[RADRick]

I'll leave this in your more than capable hands Jay. :cool:

Jay said: "And when you use a chain lube that is suited for our application, you will find that it collects no dirt or grit." Emphasis added

Rich, I can't believe you let that pass without comment. I thought you had a problem with opinion being presented as fact. And an absolute one at that! I'm sensing a double standard here. :laugh:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

J

Rich, I can't believe you let that pass without comment. I thought you had a problem with opinion being presented as fact. And an absolute one at that! I'm sensing a double standard here. :laugh:

What you are sensing is my total and complete lack of interest in the subject matter and more importantly your involvement in it.

 

[RADRick]

What you are sensing is my total and complete lack of interest in the subject matter and more importantly your involvement in it.

Oh I see, so your job as the Guardian of Truth in here is capricious in nature. Good to know. :debil:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Oh I see, so your job as the Guardian of Truth in here is capricious in nature. Good to know. :debil:

My INTERESTS drive the subjects I concern myself with, and I make it a point to stay out of discussions where I clearly am out of my depth. Obviously this is a concept that remains foreign to some. ;)

Jay has forgotten more about chains than I'll know in 3 lifetimes, and I have no interest in changing that.

If you want to argue with someone about this I'm sure he'll be more than happy to turn your ass into a lovely hat for you.

I'll be content to stand off to the side and watch as Jay guards the truth. I have no doubt that DRN is in good hands.

 

[Okiewan]

Rad, if you want to play with Rich, I'd suggest doing some "freelance writer research" into combustion, porting, compression, flow.. etc.

Bring back what you've got and go for it.

 

[RADRick]

If you want to argue with someone about this I'm sure he'll be more than happy to turn your ass into a lovely hat for you.

I don't want to "argue" with anyone. It just seems some in here have a knee-jerk reaction to anything I post simply because they don't like me. The exchange in this thread has been pretty good and brought out some interesting information, both by Jay and myself. That can only be a benefit to the readers IMHO. If anyone wants to challenge my knowledge, fine, but let it be on the merits and not on whether they have some personal bug up their butt about me. Fair? :cool:

 

[RADRick]

Rad, if you want to play with Rich, I'd suggest doing some "freelance writer research" into combustion, porting, compression, flow.. etc.

Bring back what you've got and go for it.

Why? It's not like I'm challenging his expertise on anything. I'm questioning the seeming double-standard as it relates to me. He blasted me pretty good in the knee brace thread making it appear that he was the arbiter of all things accurate on DRN. I simply wanted to know why the ridiculous statement Jay made that I quoted didn't warrant the same attention. Suddenly, he isn't interested. That's fine, at least now I know what I'm dealing with. :yell:

 

[RADRick]

What you are sensing is my total and complete lack of interest in the subject matter and more importantly your involvement in it.

None of that stopped you from taking the opportunity to disparage me, though.

 

[ellandoh]

anyone have any real world experience with the original posters question??

Primary Drive (RockyMtnATV's brand) Chain Opinions?

 

[RADRick]

anyone have any real world experience with the original posters question??

Primary Drive (RockyMtnATV's brand) Chain Opinions?

Yes, and if you look you'll see I posted it early in the thread.

 

[ellandoh]

must have missed it in this novel

 

[RADRick]

Bring back what you've got and go for it.

This whole pissing match started because Jay took exception to my recommendation of an o-ring chain in certain circumstances. He completely sidestepped the fact that manufacturers include o-ring chains on most of their off-road models, primarily because of the fact that these bikes are more likely to be subjected to deep mud and/or exposed to/submerged in water. The superiority of an o-ring chain in those circumstances is obvious to the manufacturers, otherwise, why spec a chain that costs more? Nobody said boo to Jay for his complete and utter dismissal of an o-ring chain in favor of a standard chain. I tried to present a balanced response with info to support it and I get maligned left and right for it. What's the point of having people come here if there is so much personal animus being thrown around? I like helping people when I can. At least Jay offered something in rebuttal, but a number of you have simply tried to be nasty in your attempts to discredit me. Hopefully, the people wanting the info can see through the pettiness and grasp something of value from both our posts.

 

[RADRick]

must have missed it in this novel

Mine was the first response to the OP and was only about three lines long. Given our history, I can see why you might have skipped past something with my name attached to it. :yell:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

None of that stopped you from taking the opportunity to disparage me, though.

Unless I missed something YOU called ME out in this thread not the other way around.;)

When you graciously answered my questions in the Photo forum you gave me specific information from a position of competence gleaned from real world dealings with the subject matter. I thanked you for the information because I truly appreciated the effort.

When you went off on your knee brace rant you chose to use sweeping generalizations to make your point. Like it or not that is fairly common from folks in your profession and it rubs me the wrong way. A character flaw on my part I suppose, but one I've been saddled with long enough to be comfortable with. Maybe it bothers ME more than most because even though I'm not a "professional" I've typed more words on technical subjects over the last 15 or so years then most writers ever will. While I'm not foolish enough to think I've never been wrong, or run down my share of technical rat holes when restraint would have been a better plan, I work hard to minimize the effects of my stupidity detours before I put my hands on the keyboard. As a result I like to think the info I do share has some long term value to someone.

Part of what comes from that is an unwillingness to voice an opinion on a subject I know precious little about (like chains and chain lubes). When the subject matter does turn down a road I'm familiar with I like the idea that Okie has given us the freedom to keep the "internet instant experts" in line so the overall level of information stays consistently high. Based on what I've seen over the last 7 years out here the Mods and the members working to that goal has made DRN a better place.

Having a thin skin about the whole thing seems like a waste of energy. As AJ put it so well, "it's just a message board". ;)

 

[ellandoh]

Mine was the first response to the OP and was only about three lines long. Given our history, I can see why you might have skipped past something with my name attached to it. :yell:

was a decent response, it has since been buried DEEP.

i have no direct history with you or anyone else that would cause me to skip anything. i saw a 4 page thread on a specific sprocket. i wonder what is so interesting, after seeing your name on post two i can guess

This whole pissing match started because Jay took exception to my recommendation of an o-ring chain in certain circumstances.

looks to me like you were done in post 2, and did well. then some people (particularly Jay)came in with some intelligent posts and you needed to one-up them.

 

[RADRick]

Unless I missed something YOU called ME out in this thread not the other way around.;)

To be fair, I wasn't calling you out so much as calling for your help. Mea culpa.

Rich, I have tremendous respect for you although we've butted heads here and on other forums. I know your work and have enjoyed much of it (although your gearing treatise made my head spin :laugh: ). I have no desire to get in a tiff with you, I'd just like some courtesy and an even playing field. I did acknowledge the error of my absolute statements about knee braces and I am much more careful because of it. I truly wish to be an asset here, not having to defend everything I post simply because people want to interject personalities into the equation. :cool:

Having a thin skin about the whole thing seems like a waste of energy. As AJ put it so well, "it's just a message board". ;)

A perfect example of the bias against me is ellandoh's post about the OP without having noticed I was the first to respond with exactly what was asked for. And concisely, at that! That's the kind of thing that frosts my butt. BTW, who's AJ? :laugh:

 

[ellandoh]

i seen your post frosty , figure that one out . ive got no bias. however i can tell a little about you by the amount of threads youre involved in that are locked

 

[RADRick]

i have no direct history with you or anyone else that would cause me to skip anything. i saw a 4 page thread on a specific sprocket. i wonder what is so interesting, after seeing your name on post two i can guess

Can you see the obvious contradiction in those 2 statements? I can. No matter, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. :cool:

looks to me like you were done in post 2, and did well. then some people (particularly Jay)came in with some intelligent posts and you needed to one-up them.

Yes, he did, but for some reason he felt the need to not only provide his expertise, but to discount mine in the process. Should I just remain silent and make it look like I have no conviction for my understanding of the subject? I don't think so. Having just recently concluded an article on this very subject in which I was in contact with many experts from DID, Regina, Renthal and others, I feel well-versed enough to be presenting my perspective on this. Unlike Jay, I don't have a pony in this race.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

A perfect example of the bias against me

You'll have to live a LONG time to accumulate the same level of negative bias that I've gathered since I started posting on USENET in the early 90's. Ignoring it has served me well.

When talking about giving people information my dad once told me to work tirelessly to give people the best, most accurate information and advice I am capable of, and then have the good sense not to give a damn if they take it. ;)

Unlike Jay, I don't have a pony in this race.

If you honestly expect to get a fair shake from people, it's probably in your best interest to knock off this type of sniping at other people. If you attack his character how do you expect someone not to respond in kind?

Jay has been on DRN for a long time and he has been consistent (and insanely passionate) with his views on chains and lubrication long before he started Digilube (which works really well in my experience :cool: ).

 

[ellandoh]

Yes, he did, but for some reason he felt the need to not only provide his expertise, but to discount mine in the process. Should I just remain silent and make it look like I have no conviction for my understanding of the subject? I don't think so.

post #9 poses no bearing on post #2 , try again

 

[RADRick]

You'll have to live a LONG time to accumulate the same level of negative bias that I've gathered since I started posting on USENET in the early 90's. Ignoring it has served me well.

Same here. It was my answering of tech questions in Harley forums back in '93 that got me my start in print.

When talking about giving people information my dad once told me to work tirelessly to give people the best, most accurate information and advice I am capable of, and then have the good sense not to give a damn if they take it. ;)

I don't care that much if people take my advice, but I do care if they try to discredit me without cause, which was the case here. Anyway, I went to the track and rode my ass off today after 5 weeks in Florida and a ton of my mother's cooking (Cuban/Italian). I'm sore, tired and in need of a shower so until the next time, keep it rubber side down. :cool:

 

[RADRick]

post #9 poses no bearing on post #2 , try again

If you look at post #11, you'll see I pretty much validated everything Jay said in his prior post. Anyway, it's all a moot point by now. Either readers will get the info they seek or they won't. To reiterate, the Primary Drive chains appear to be as good or better than the stockers and compete well with the other available products, especially on price. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :cool:

 

[ellandoh]

good story :) :cool:

 

[RADRick]

If you honestly expect to get a fair shake from people, it's probably in your best interest to knock off this type of sniping at other people. If you attack his character how do you expect someone not to respond in kind?

I didn't snipe, I merely pointed out a truth: Jay has a vested interest as a chain lube manufacturer and his info should be taken in that light. That's not an attack of his character, it's a plain fact. He made comments about the motivations of chain manufacturers and their marketing departments. He should be subject to the same scrutiny, no? Man, I don't get it. :coocoo: Good night, if you want to continue this it will have to wait until tomorrow. Later...