Sandbaggers
- Thread starter blackhawk468
- Start date
I'm a sandbagger!
At least that's what the riders I beat tell me. The ones that beat me, I call sandbaggers too! I race with the Over the Hill Gang,
and they are probably the best regulated group of mx'ers out there. They make you do two races (while wearing a red tank top over your jersey) and watch how you ride around the track. They will give you a phone call and move you up if you win a couple of times or consistently run through the pack (from bad starts).
I had a race at Sunrise MX yesterday and there was a guy in my class that did all the jumps (long, BIG, doubles and triples close to 90+ft) and I was on his A$$ all the way around the track, in second place, even though I didn't do them all. He could jump, but he SUCKED in the turns, which is where I made up the slack. Except for this guy, only the experts and pros were doing the BIG jumps. Should they move this guy up a class? Well, as it turns out, He got spanked in his first moto and won the second moto(barely) so he ended up third overall. I went 2-2 for 1st overall and some other guy went 1-3 for second overall. Pretty close competition overall. As for most other mx clubs or AMA mx races, the sandbagging is so prevalent, you may as well just be doing it for fun, as it seems like everyone is stepping down a class or two just to get a trophy. I KNOW an ex-pro who likes to enter the local vet beginner class just for a trophy! (now that sucks!) and he thinks
it's funny. I think he's just a jerk. Just my .02cents worth.
Erik This post is supposed to be under the "sandbagging" thread.
At least that's what the riders I beat tell me. The ones that beat me, I call sandbaggers too! I race with the Over the Hill Gang,
and they are probably the best regulated group of mx'ers out there. They make you do two races (while wearing a red tank top over your jersey) and watch how you ride around the track. They will give you a phone call and move you up if you win a couple of times or consistently run through the pack (from bad starts).
I had a race at Sunrise MX yesterday and there was a guy in my class that did all the jumps (long, BIG, doubles and triples close to 90+ft) and I was on his A$$ all the way around the track, in second place, even though I didn't do them all. He could jump, but he SUCKED in the turns, which is where I made up the slack. Except for this guy, only the experts and pros were doing the BIG jumps. Should they move this guy up a class? Well, as it turns out, He got spanked in his first moto and won the second moto(barely) so he ended up third overall. I went 2-2 for 1st overall and some other guy went 1-3 for second overall. Pretty close competition overall. As for most other mx clubs or AMA mx races, the sandbagging is so prevalent, you may as well just be doing it for fun, as it seems like everyone is stepping down a class or two just to get a trophy. I KNOW an ex-pro who likes to enter the local vet beginner class just for a trophy! (now that sucks!) and he thinks
it's funny. I think he's just a jerk. Just my .02cents worth.
Erik This post is supposed to be under the "sandbagging" thread.
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- Nov 24, 2000
- 4,787
- 103
i agree.
like others have said, sandbagging doesn't personally affect me. i ride 30+ and 40+. here vet classes are age based only, no skill level divisions so it's not a problem.
but it's still wrong to sandbag the other classes and i feel for the guys that have to put up with it.
rockchucker
Member
- Nov 17, 1999
- 115
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Someone mentioned being called a sandbagger because they are winning. I think that is a good point. It seems if you win your class consistently you're a sandbagger. Seems like an oxymoron to me. I've raced in beginner and open classes. I've won or placed well in several open races against the novice class and guess what.. I was called a sandbagger. Why? At our local track they trophy to 5th place so there is no reason to sandbag for the trophies. I'm doing this for experience and fun not for a career. I raced beginner this weekend and got called a sandbagger. I'm quite sure if I race novice and win I'll be called a sandbagger again. I've raced a total of 7x's, all since the last weekend of July. So I'm a sandbagger??? Ok so be it.
You are a Sandbagger! You know you shouldn't be in the beginner class!
You know I can say this because I ride with you!
The rule in Texas is that you can ride beginner for 1 year. Also, if you EVER move to a higher class, ie,... Novice, Inte, Exp then you cannot ride Beginner again. You told me you were moving up,and well you should, your young and can ride, so do it! It will only make you a better rider.
I'm heading to Mosier tonight instead of V/C. Me and the kid will be racing Sat night @ V/C and practicing @ V/C on Sun.
C-ya:cool:
You know I can say this because I ride with you!
The rule in Texas is that you can ride beginner for 1 year. Also, if you EVER move to a higher class, ie,... Novice, Inte, Exp then you cannot ride Beginner again. You told me you were moving up,and well you should, your young and can ride, so do it! It will only make you a better rider.
I'm heading to Mosier tonight instead of V/C. Me and the kid will be racing Sat night @ V/C and practicing @ V/C on Sun.
C-ya:cool:
rockchucker
Member
- Nov 17, 1999
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IBWFO - Young? I'm no spring chicken at 30yold! Yeah I'm moving up in October. Also I spoke with #4 on Saturday and he said he'll move up when I do... for what it's worth. I've only entered 125 beg, open and over 25 classes. I accidently entered 250 Nov the first weekend I raced though. Talk about a butt-whipping on a 250f and that was on bad advice from who ever was working the sign-up. They mistook the fourstroke for a 250 2-smoke as they "recommended" me entering 250 Nov. At any rate, I won't defend my sandbagging but did get tired of "hearing" attitude from a certain someone. I'll let you be the judge of who that could have been. I talk with you about that later.
Mosier? Man I was there for the GNC on Sunday watching the pro's run. Demuth hammered everyone on his 4-strokes. The whoops look alot better.
I'll be at VC this evening and this weekend so I'll catch up with ya there. I thought you'd go to the Pro Challenge in Tyler this weekend. Supposedly Brown and a few of the big boys are supposed to be there. Anyway have fun at Mosier.
See ya this weekend,
"Bag"
Mosier? Man I was there for the GNC on Sunday watching the pro's run. Demuth hammered everyone on his 4-strokes. The whoops look alot better.
I'll be at VC this evening and this weekend so I'll catch up with ya there. I thought you'd go to the Pro Challenge in Tyler this weekend. Supposedly Brown and a few of the big boys are supposed to be there. Anyway have fun at Mosier.
See ya this weekend,
"Bag"
Bill Hibbs
~SPONSOR~
- Aug 25, 1999
- 537
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I realized quickly when I did my first races that even the "Beginner" level of racer's are usually pretty good. Especially in HareScrambles. You have to be pretty good and have some experience under your belt before even entering a decent Harescramble. The Beginner class is not a group of guys that just started riding a few weeks ago. It is sad to see though the guy who got 5th in the overall was running in a C class. Give me a break! :think
- Nov 24, 2000
- 4,787
- 103
i recommend racing vet instead of beginner. here they generally spread out into three groups of riders in the vet classes. the fast ones, the average ones and the slower ones (the real beginners). the top beginner class riders would run about the same speed as the average ones in the vet classes.
yz250-effer
Member
- Nov 4, 2000
- 305
- 0
So I am practicing at our new local track...
and a fellow rider asked me if I race. I said. " no, have not tried mx yet, but I am thinking about it." I am a former desert racer of 4-5 years. I am clearing all the jumps, including a 60 foot double. ( which I just nailed that day.) I tell him no but I might race a beginner race in the next 3 mos., when my knees heal up ( surgury stuff - nasty ). Well he affectionately calls me a sand-bagger. Should I start off with novice if I have never raced MX, or race the over 30 class only? I want to have fun and compete with equal competetition but not cherry pick at the same time.
Part of me says: do one race as a beginner, and if I win, go from there. Or would it be safer to ride with novices. Maybe I will wait 2 years and sandbag the over 40 class.:D
I will probably race the novice and/or over 30 open class within the next couple months. I hate the thought of coming over a jump or table and landing on someone who did not do it. If I am slow I will just hang back and have fun trying to catch someone.:) I do not want to be called a sandbagger. At least on my second trophy.:cool:
and a fellow rider asked me if I race. I said. " no, have not tried mx yet, but I am thinking about it." I am a former desert racer of 4-5 years. I am clearing all the jumps, including a 60 foot double. ( which I just nailed that day.) I tell him no but I might race a beginner race in the next 3 mos., when my knees heal up ( surgury stuff - nasty ). Well he affectionately calls me a sand-bagger. Should I start off with novice if I have never raced MX, or race the over 30 class only? I want to have fun and compete with equal competetition but not cherry pick at the same time.
Part of me says: do one race as a beginner, and if I win, go from there. Or would it be safer to ride with novices. Maybe I will wait 2 years and sandbag the over 40 class.:D
I will probably race the novice and/or over 30 open class within the next couple months. I hate the thought of coming over a jump or table and landing on someone who did not do it. If I am slow I will just hang back and have fun trying to catch someone.:) I do not want to be called a sandbagger. At least on my second trophy.:cool:
What class did you ride in the desert?
I ride the O 40 EX in off-Road but don't do to well in the exp class in MX. Most of the races here (Texas) are only O 40, no exp,int,nov, so you get quite a mix.
I wouldn't ever enter the beginner class in any race since I have been racing for 30 years. Ride the novice or the O 40 C class. You should do OK and it will let you see where you are. If you can ride advanced in the desert then all you will have to do is master the jumps and you will be ahead of the next guys. My opinion anyway.
Just remember that the "bigger" the race the MORE "Sandbaggers" there are!
Regards
I ride the O 40 EX in off-Road but don't do to well in the exp class in MX. Most of the races here (Texas) are only O 40, no exp,int,nov, so you get quite a mix.
I wouldn't ever enter the beginner class in any race since I have been racing for 30 years. Ride the novice or the O 40 C class. You should do OK and it will let you see where you are. If you can ride advanced in the desert then all you will have to do is master the jumps and you will be ahead of the next guys. My opinion anyway.
Just remember that the "bigger" the race the MORE "Sandbaggers" there are!
Regards
yz250-effer
Member
- Nov 4, 2000
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Thanks for the input IBWFO:
I raced the "sportsman" class in the whiplash series around AZ - which is one step above beginner. The sportsman, or novice class seemed to be a little faster than the beginners, and more consistant. The lap times for the beginner class were incredibly varied due to the mix of "sandbaggers" and true beginners.
I quit desert racing 2 years ago after my hitting my last hidden rock in a sand wash at 50+ mph. and doing a flying W, shoulder injury, and mild concussion.Ironically enough , MX seems safer to me. Actually a guy died last year in one of the desert races. A guy also got killed at Canyon Offroad MX park , too, I heard ( landed on after he wrecked on the downside of a big table top). So I guess it is debatable about which is safer.
MX has actually taught me to turn faster, since I turn more , which is good. Most mx is won in the turns, after you get over the jumps.:think
I just don't want to be a sandbagger for more than one race, I guess. Trophys don't mean a whole lot, I just ride for fun.
I raced the "sportsman" class in the whiplash series around AZ - which is one step above beginner. The sportsman, or novice class seemed to be a little faster than the beginners, and more consistant. The lap times for the beginner class were incredibly varied due to the mix of "sandbaggers" and true beginners.
I quit desert racing 2 years ago after my hitting my last hidden rock in a sand wash at 50+ mph. and doing a flying W, shoulder injury, and mild concussion.Ironically enough , MX seems safer to me. Actually a guy died last year in one of the desert races. A guy also got killed at Canyon Offroad MX park , too, I heard ( landed on after he wrecked on the downside of a big table top). So I guess it is debatable about which is safer.
MX has actually taught me to turn faster, since I turn more , which is good. Most mx is won in the turns, after you get over the jumps.:think
I just don't want to be a sandbagger for more than one race, I guess. Trophys don't mean a whole lot, I just ride for fun.
Mr. 250-fer, racing mx is entirely different than racing desert or other types of races, as mx is like a 15-20minute drag-race. Usually desert racers drop down a class for mx. If I were you, I'd just enter your first race as a 30+beginner, since you really are a vet beginner in motocross. the novice or (nervous) class is much more dangerous because you get alot of hyped out beginners (mixed in with the true novices and "sandbaggers") with little cornering skill crashing into or in front of you. They move in to the novice class because they don't want to be labeled a "beginner". The worst part is if they get in front of you, they usually will spend the whole moto trying to block you from passing them(since they're slow and don't realize they're dangerous), instead of worrying about trying to pass the guy in front of them. Anyway, if you whoop up on everybody in the beginner class then move up to novice next time. Remember that you need to develop certain skills in mx that you probably don't get to develop in desert, such as starting on a concrete pad, riding
or railing rutted turns, carrying speed through turns, choosing better lines than your opponents, JUMPING TECHNIQUE, getting in better shape, riding smoother, standing up more, dealing with arm pump, setting up the rider in front of you for a pass, .....etc. ....
or railing rutted turns, carrying speed through turns, choosing better lines than your opponents, JUMPING TECHNIQUE, getting in better shape, riding smoother, standing up more, dealing with arm pump, setting up the rider in front of you for a pass, .....etc. ....
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yz250-effer
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- Nov 4, 2000
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ktm400man:
Thanks - good advice, and well taken.:)
Thanks - good advice, and well taken.:)
YoTRacer158
Member
- Jan 10, 2001
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all of these ppl keep saying that if someone can do all the jumps they shouldnt be a beginner...it takes more nerves to do a big jump than it does skill. my friend is an excellent jumper, but f he raced he would get his butt kicked. the main place on the track that separates the classes is the corners. the next time youre at a race watch where the different classes get on the power...beginners will brake sooner comming up to the turn, coast through the turn, and start accelerating about 3/4 of the way through the turn, whereas the pro/A class riders will slam on the brakes later comming into the turn, and then be on the power all the way through the turn. also the ability to soak up jumps and stay low will separate classes too. the beginners who are doing the big jumps will be going super high to make sure they can clear them, whereas higher class riders will throw the bike sideways going up the face to stay lower to the ground. i race in the cma (california motocross association) and they have a points rule where they will bump you up to the next class if you are dominating the class you're currently in. another thing is that beginners at small town races are a lot different than the beginner class at a series race. once in a beginner race i went 2-4 (only bcause there was an intermediate sandbagging that swept both motos, and my footpeg snapped off in the second moto) but at a series race i went 6-12 in the same class. however the dealer dollar payout is a significant difference -- 1st place for a beginner is $50 whereas a novice will get $175 to win his class. this is definately an incentive for people to move up so they can win more money. i dont agree with sandbagging, but it's something that will always be there.
FMX_novice
Member
- Jan 5, 2001
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My dad has me on film, my second race, late in the season, last place. I go over and clear a double and my friends yell "Go Rich", then behind me the guy triples the jump i doubled, whips the bike absolutely sideways, clears the next tabletop and practically lands in a rut with the bike WOT. This guy looked like an A class rider making fun of the C classers, If you are awesome and wanna race 125 C class go get a tt-r125!
This thread started by a rider here in central Texas. We have always had a strong MX scene here. What that means is that all the classes are going to be fast. Those guys that you see whipping the beginner class will get smoked by the guys winning the novice class. The guys winning the novice class are going to get hammered by the fastest intermediates. When you move up to expert you have to contend with Charley Bogard and Josh Demuth, both of whom are National pros and have won many pro Arenacross races. If you really think someone is cherry picking time them with a stopwatch and compare his lap times with the next class. Jumping skills does not necessarily mean fast lap times.
Something I learned a long time ago is that you only get as fast as the guys you ride with. I was serious about racing when is was a teenager so I only raced novice three times and moved up to intermediate for my fourth race ever. I struggled to stay in the top ten but within six months I was in the top three.I was winning after about a year. I got a lot faster because I was in a fast crowd.
It's funny because now days my friends teased me about cherry picking the Over 30 classrecently. I won that class at the NMA Winter National this year. I had not raced in seven years but I still have good speed. The problem is I only can maintain a fast pace for 3 laps before I get full on arm pump. If I ride expert I have to maintain that pace for 6-7 laps. It gets kind of sketchy when you are hauling a$$ and your arms don't work. Plus, I'm old now (38)and I just ride for fun. :)
Something I learned a long time ago is that you only get as fast as the guys you ride with. I was serious about racing when is was a teenager so I only raced novice three times and moved up to intermediate for my fourth race ever. I struggled to stay in the top ten but within six months I was in the top three.I was winning after about a year. I got a lot faster because I was in a fast crowd.
It's funny because now days my friends teased me about cherry picking the Over 30 classrecently. I won that class at the NMA Winter National this year. I had not raced in seven years but I still have good speed. The problem is I only can maintain a fast pace for 3 laps before I get full on arm pump. If I ride expert I have to maintain that pace for 6-7 laps. It gets kind of sketchy when you are hauling a$$ and your arms don't work. Plus, I'm old now (38)and I just ride for fun. :)
Typically your right, and most of the faster beginner riders will get beat by the Nov riders and so on. Problem is, when you get some kids that "hang" around in the "novice" class to rack up championships so they can do better with sponsors. If everyone would take the same attitude you did, we would not only have better riders but better racing.
I have never thought that the "Novice" class was a class you stayed in until you were good enough to win the "Intermediate" class, but that is what has happened. Check out the results in the Pro Circuit Series for the "Novice" class. The kid winning that class can easily run lap-times in the top 3 of the "int" class. This kid is GOOD, but needs to move up.
This type of attitude just perpetuates itself. I hear other parents saying, "Well, if they did it so can my son.
Regards
I have never thought that the "Novice" class was a class you stayed in until you were good enough to win the "Intermediate" class, but that is what has happened. Check out the results in the Pro Circuit Series for the "Novice" class. The kid winning that class can easily run lap-times in the top 3 of the "int" class. This kid is GOOD, but needs to move up.
This type of attitude just perpetuates itself. I hear other parents saying, "Well, if they did it so can my son.
Regards
- Nov 25, 1999
- 7,926
- 43
you only get as fast as the guys you ride with.
I aggree with cp380sx. I don't ride MX (check out the DW01 forum) but I ride HS. I rode the novice class 1 race. There were sandbaggers, so what. A buddy suggested I move up to the over 30 int. I did and, well, I was way out classed but my times got better. I would hang with these guys as best I could learning as I went. I prefer riding with people better than me because I get better. Will I win a points championship, who cares. I have fun and when it is no longer fun I'll stop. Challenge yourself and race in a higher class, you will improve.:cool:
I aggree with cp380sx. I don't ride MX (check out the DW01 forum) but I ride HS. I rode the novice class 1 race. There were sandbaggers, so what. A buddy suggested I move up to the over 30 int. I did and, well, I was way out classed but my times got better. I would hang with these guys as best I could learning as I went. I prefer riding with people better than me because I get better. Will I win a points championship, who cares. I have fun and when it is no longer fun I'll stop. Challenge yourself and race in a higher class, you will improve.:cool:
