Seville SX Tonight!

marcusgunby · Dec 8, 2003

You watch a good mud rider and he shows his skills-its just as skillful if not more than normal racing.it always a race even if the leader only does one lap-im hearing too much stuff here about mud-it is motocross not road racing.

Okiewan · Dec 8, 2003

It's IS motocross... it usually isn't SX.

truespode · Dec 8, 2003

Daytona was a tough mud race (although not like this) and it was an SX too.

My first ever live SX was Charlotte and it was a mud race. John Dowd won.

Mud happens, even in SX. It is part of the sport you have to deal with unless you put everything indoors but if you do that I think 7 or so events would have to be relocated (Aneheim, LV, etc.).

What I saw Saturday was tough racing. It seperated the workers from the merely talented. I bet if RC would have raced he would have won b/c the whole track was about effort, strength and stamina.

Hats off to those who had the guts to race the SX. You take what the track gives you.

Ivan

LocoCD · Dec 8, 2003

Racing - yes it was. So is mud bog, swamp buggies and sand drags.

However, SX is the "Formula 1" version of the sport. This was not up to that standard. Remember the old adage: 90% rider and 10% bike? In this case it was 99% track that determined the outcome - I agree there are thousands of riders that could have won that event and NEVER have a chance at winning - or even qualifying for a normal SX.

I thought it was entertaining and at the same time negative for the sport. It took a showcase event and made it look like backyard mud slinging - so much for highlighting world class skills and technology in font of a national audience!

nikki · Dec 8, 2003

Agreed Ivan! And I think you're right on the money with RC as well. SLC was another muddy SX... I remember seeing a Honda completely buried and left in the deep mud. The show must go on and only the strong will survive.

I really doubt the only reason Hurley was the only rider to stay on 2 wheels during the Seville main was because of luck - have you read his interview on RacerX - he's always been a mud rider. And I also doubt that the consistency of Langston and Evans and Voss was a fluke based on luck and not skill considering Langston finished 2nd in both his heat and the main, Tyler won his heat and finished 3rd in the main, and Voss finished 2nd in his heat and 4th in the main. Anyone can ride groomed dirt, but it takes skill, concentration, strength, and determination to conquer the muddy and rutted track.

James · Dec 8, 2003

I guess you can't always.....I mean, there will always be..... :think:

Well, I doubt anybody was forced to watch it at gunpoint!! :confused:

I am sure there was plenty of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy", "Real World", or the "Fabulous Life of Britney Spears" on other channels for you. :moon: :uh: :thumb:

I'll watch a mudrace SX anyday over some of that other stuff I have to flip through.

truespode · Dec 8, 2003

Originally posted by LocoCD
SX is the "Formula 1" version of the sport. This was not up to that standard.

Do they race Formula 1 in the rain? Not sure really b/c I do not watch it but if they do then wouldn't a wet track make a big difference at the speeds they run? Does that negate the racing?

Remember the old adage: 90% rider and 10% bike? In this case it was 99% track that determined the outcome

Personally I saw it as 95% rider and 5% bike. The only reason some of the bigger names didn't win it is b/c there bike gave out. However, the riders whose bike didn't blow still had to push through the mud with stamina and hard work.

This race was not about the track. Sure it was muddy but it showed us that the 2-strokes can survive the harshes elements better than the 4-strokes (nobody has told me yet definitively if a 4-stroke even completed all 8 laps) and it showed us that only the strong can survive.

I don't stop watching a football game b/c of a blizzard even though the weather has an impact on the outcome. Take a windy, no visibility game and a team that throws a lot will probably lose a game they normally would be favored to win.

Ivan

TheJunkMan · Dec 8, 2003

Especially that OH-OXYGEN channel I guess they spell diferently cause I spell OH-Oxygen- C R A P

marcusgunby · Dec 8, 2003

F1 go in the rain-even when i wouldnt like to drive my road car at 50 mph, indy cars dont go in the rain i think , hmm a pattern is emerging LOL.

James · Dec 8, 2003

EASY Marcus.....

;)

LocoCD · Dec 8, 2003

Originally posted by nikki
Anyone can ride groomed dirt, but it takes skill, concentration, strength, and determination to conquer the muddy and rutted track.

Perhaps on an MX course, I've been around a lot of SX races over the years and I flagged the SF race last year - up close and personal. Anyone can ride the track but there are only a handful of riders in the world that can race the track at SX speeds without killing themslves. Perhaps there is confusion around MX vs SX, they really are different animals.

I'd bet money that Mike Lafferty, Hawkins, Ty Davis or even Burleson would have won the Mudder of all Races in Seville but they wouldn't likely consider a regular SX event.

F-1 cars do race in the rain. They simply change tires and then maintain a high percentage of their speed.

My point is one of support for SX racing and that this was not SX racing, simply a globberfest on an SX track.

By the way, they cancel baseball games due to weather - because it fundamentaly alters the game (like SX). Football is incrementally impacted but not fundamentaly altered (like MX).

mxer842 · Dec 8, 2003

you guys anger me. do we race motocross because it is easy?no, we race for the challenge, if every track had perfect powder berms and three feet of loam how interesting would this sport be? i dont race because it is easy, i race for the challenge, and that means rain, mud, or blazing heat ill be out there. because this is motocross, it is a challenge!!

and how many of you guys have actually ridden a mud race?if you have you will know that the balance required to keep a bike upright is amazing, even for the speeds they rode at, that was an interesting race. secondly, i've ridden a few mud races and know that after i pull off the track i am mentally exhausted from the concentration needed to keep that bike upright and the physical exertion one puts into racing in the mud. the best man won, daryl rode the smartest race by not riding faster than the conditions allowed and preserving his bike, he was the rightful winner!!

marcusgunby · Dec 8, 2003

LOL the thing is i know some US riders dont ride the deep mud, steve (who i bet is reading this now) will back me up, none of his friends would go out in the deep mud-they waited 2 hours for it to dry, i was out there getting a good workout by the time they did a lap.Another interesting point, steve and his friends dont own a jet wash, we have to own one-in fact many of my friends own more than 1.

Its all about keeping the bikes looking pretty;)
Now that must stir some of you good old, US loving, mud sissies into a reply:)

fish fish fish

nikki · Dec 8, 2003

Anyone can ride groomed dirt, but it takes skill, concentration, strength, and determination to conquer the muddy and rutted track.

Let me rephrase myself then... "anyone can finish 8 laps on a groomed SX track, however very few riders can finish 8 laps on SX track when you throw in the challenge of mud and ruts like Seville."

Even the detuned KTM 50's can turn laps around a groomed SX track just 20-30 seconds a lap slower than the pros. Heck some of the 50's even jump some of the bigger doubles. I've raced the Pontiac SX track on amateur day - it doesn't take much skill, concentration, strength, or determination to complete 8 laps at a halfway decent pace. All I'm saying is I have HUGE respect for the guys like Hurley, Langston, Evans, and Voss who were out there putting in two consistent races (heat and main) and top finishes in that crap. It wasn't luck, there was a little skill behind their consistency as well. Regardless, they came to race and nothing was going to stop them. They aren't quitters. That's the attitude some of us obviously need to adapt instead of "put the bike in the trailer I think it might rain today" :confused:

steve125 · Dec 8, 2003

Originally posted by marcusgunby
LOL the thing is i know some US riders dont ride the deep mud, steve (who i bet is reading this now) will back me up, none of his friends would go out in the deep mud-they waited 2 hours for it to dry

Yep! Marcus had no problem with the mud, but he did have the most fun when the track dried out and he could let er rip!!!

 I really respect those riders at Seville and it was fun to watch. Ive raced alot of mud races and have never found it "Fun", but I did find it a challenge thats for sure.

I think riders who like mud, like it cuz it gives them an excuse not to have to jump, right Marcus? :eek: :)

 

DPW · Dec 8, 2003

Originally posted by Truespode
I just re-watched the heat races (today's show has the heats) and Heath was on a 2-stroke.

Ivan

Weird I thought Voss was going be to riding a 450 indoors...my mistake

2smoke · Dec 8, 2003

Yep if you dont get off the ground its not dirt bike racing. For real??? Marcus you keep telling them.... F1 race in very crap conditions and they dont hang a yellow flag out everytime a seagull pee's on the track ala Indycar. Riding in the deep mud is sh#t to do but there is most definitely a skill to it. I would have liked to see Stefan Everts at that one. He floats through deep mud feet up all the way. Oh and congrats to Hurley Ive seen him race lots in Oz for Team Suzuki......(he's a Kiwi Boy not an Aussie)....... he done good. Cause he won.

truespode · Dec 8, 2003

Originally posted by mxer842
how many of you guys have actually ridden a mud race?

Just my guess but I'd venture to say that those that have ridden more than one mud race realize how great of a race the SX was. Those that have ridden only one and packed up or ridden none at all are those that are hatin :)

My favorite race this year was a mud race. It makes me mad that earlier in the season I passed on a couple of races just b/c of rain.

Ivan

kiwi_925 · Dec 8, 2003

2smoke, your not trying to claim Hurl's aint an aussie....thats gota be the first time thats happened!! I mean look at Merriman, and im sure there's other riders out there that you're claiming to be aussie :)
Yes i loved watching that mud race, though i watched the one with the heats first up and then it re-aired last night and was the one with only the main in, i can see why everyone seemed so pissed at it. Steele should be the main talking guy and Coombs as the other guy saying wahts happening with that rider, and Baliey there in the mix as well.
But Hurl's was the better rider on the day, and he rode best int he conditions that were infront of him. One thing people can not control, mother nature, the great equalizer(sp). Its about your mind set, if you hate the mud you would have probably hated watching that race, i love riding in the mud over riding in the dry, maybe its something to do living in new zealand where it seems to be raining more times than not, or if its a dry day the usually find some sort of bog to put us through.
1st new zealander to win a SX, and it wasnt one of the King brothers! Kudos Hurl's. Another poduim this weekned will help his cause and stop the only cos it was wet people.

2smoke · Dec 8, 2003

Kiwi 925 Yeah I know Ive given you sh@t about that before!!! But that was tongue in cheek and you know it!!! No I actually get pissed off with the amount of expat Kiwis the papers claim over here as Aussies....I like to set the record straight cause Ive seen him referred to as an Aussie before. Plus I got the impression some people think he's a talentless schmuck who was all luck. He won cause he was first accross the line....enuff said.

whitesands26 · Dec 9, 2003

It's a freaking SX race...Not a truck and tractor pull....

I can't believe how many people think that was great racing....It was absurd...Grant langston didn't know what position he was in..I'm pretty sure most of the guys didn't know what position they were in....

It's actually like having an AMA superbike race or and f1 race on ICE....How in the Heck do you think Nicky Haden would be able to use his superior skills on the ice ? He wouldn't ! That's why you would have some no name winning because he lucked out by staying upright or crashing less then everyone else.

It's mostly luck of the draw in races like we saw last weekend.

For all you Yahoooos that "love ta go racin in dat der mud over yonder" then go right ahead and proceed to blow up your bikes and do all other sorts of damage to your bike for one stupid mudslingfest so you can "get dem valuable points in that there beginner seeeeries at the local track over yonder".....

Ignorance must be bliss..lol

Chili · Dec 9, 2003

Originally posted by whitesands26
Ignorance must be bliss

I'm not sure if it is or not, but I'm certain you'll be able to confirm. :|

marcusgunby · Dec 9, 2003

Well if the world packed there bikes away every time a track was muddy it hit the sales real hard;),

nephron · Dec 9, 2003

Let's just go for it, as far as these 'natural' conditions for 'sx' are concerned. I say open up in Alaska @ several locations, and our boys can jump off snow banks and pull off huge ice triples on spikes. Yeah baby, that's SX. au naturale' eh? In that way, we could make sure the ice riders don't have a hand down to the mud guys, and by the time we hit some closed stadiums RC, CR and KW will be in last place. Now that's a true demonstration of SX, its meaning, its original intent...not the least of which was to create something different and spectacular that could be recognized as separate from MX (which FOLLOWS SX, and for a reason).

Now maybe I'm wrong (and I would defer to Nikki to some degree since she actually races), but SX is about tight track skills, deep whoops, big jumps and cornering speed...not sloshing up one side of a jump for 5 seconds, and down the other for 2.5 seconds. Mud on an SX track ( to the degree that we all saw) prohibits any meaningful riding, while in MX it's just great (for obvious reasons).

LocoCD--good rationale.

Rcannon · Dec 9, 2003

I was at that Salt Lake race. Kyle Lewis's bike did get stuck in the mud, but only after crashing over the berm. The track was in fairly decent shape despite all the rain.

 

The dozer would go out and scrape off the top two or so inches of mud and put it into a pile. Poor Kyle happened to land right square in the center of it! He was pushing and pulling, trying to get the bike out. He was laughing like crazy! He showed a good deal of sportsmanship in a bad situation. He ended up leaving the bike right where it landed, mud clear up to the swingarm!

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