Stuck Clutch Hub Nut

[xprojectstevex]

I can't get the nut off of my clutch hub on my '97 rm250. I've tried everything, I have the holder, I put it in gear to get extra holding power and it still won't loosen up. The lock washer is tapped flat. I'm using a 1/2" air impact gun so it's not like I'm using my dewalt drill or anything.
My manual doesn't say anything about it being reverse threaded but I've tried both ways. Any ideas anyone? Is it reverse thread? Thanks for you help.

 

[ellandoh]

there is a BIG difference in the torque of various guns. if you arent using a decent one try your neighbors. we have one at the shop that wont take off a mildly tight lugnut, however my personal gun will twist until something gives........not always the nut :bang: :laugh:

 

[xprojectstevex]

It's an Ingersol Rand gun. It doesn't say what the torque specs for it are but I know it was my dad's and he used it working on heavy machinery so it should be decent. I wish I could use my neighbors but unfortunately I don't think any of my neighbors do any kind of mechanical work, let alone enough to need an air impact gun. Guess I will just have to buy the big boy air gun so I can break something if nothing else. Any other ideas?

 

[nickyd]

NOW is the time to buy a new tool!!!!! woo hoo - actually - my "industrial" use air impact gun maxes at 75 ft lbs - you'd never guess by looking at it....and I venture to guess it doesn't ever get too close to that actual torque setting. Harbor Freight sells an electric impact gun (item 45252) that pushes 240 ft. lbs. I have a milwaukee electric impact that hits 300 and as ellandoh said, this will twist just about anything - ie, the motor right out of your hands if you aren't holding it.

try some heat and some pentrating lube - make sure you air compressor is set right and hit it good - sometimes you need to stay on that trigger for a bit - if you do and you don't see it moving, might as well give up and get a larger gun. It should be a standard thread - I am about 99% positive - I recently did a 96 RM 250 and had no issues with that bolt. .

 

[ellandoh]

other idea is to wait for someone with a better idea :think:

 

[nickyd]

other idea is to wait for someone with a better idea :think:

NEVER!! buy more tools! :)

 

[xprojectstevex]

Guess I'll just take the gas cap off and drop a new bike under it,

 

[ellandoh]

try some heat and some pentrating lube

nicky , its bathed in oil at all times , oil may do no good. also heat may not be too good for crank seal.
i would go to home depot and get the 99$ impact wrench, thats the one i got and it makes 500 ft/lbs torque. all my air tools have the 3/8" fittings which helps even more

 

[nickyd]

nicky , its bathed in oil at all times , oil may do no good. also heat may not be too good for crank seal.

L and O - it the clutch hub - no seal under there...My point was to try a bit of heat/cooling - aka expansion/contracting...while you are at it spray a dab of WD or something to get under those threads - while it is no doubt bathed in oil, I have seen that nut corrode on the shaft - I'm hoping the heat/oil will help to break the corrosion seal.

 

[ellandoh]

if theres no seal what keeps the oil out of the crankcase??

for my bike , i would try some penetrating oil, however i wouldnt heat it unless all else failed and i was going to change that seal which is no biggie maybe 15$

 

[nickyd]

if theres no seal what keeps the oil out of the crankcase??

the clutch hub is attached to the input transmission shaft not the crank - the input shaft is supported by a bearing mounted to the case half - the input shaft is connected to the crank indirectly via the clutch basket and primary gear. there is typically a large washer under the clutch basket/hub itself but I have not seen a seal on a 2 stroke. what am I missing?

 

[ellandoh]

http://www.servicehonda.com/hard parts/off road/cr250 2002/cr250 02 frames page.htm
click on crank case then check out
#28

 

[darringer]

ellandoh, there is no seal on or behind the clutch hub. Part number 28 you are referencing is the crank seal, which is behind the primary gear. The shaft the clutch hub rides on is the transmission main shaft. There is no need for a seal, as it is all bathed in tranny oil.

 

[OldTimer]

Someone in the past (if used, or serviced elsewhere) my have used Red Loctite, instead of blue or nothing at all. If that's the case then heat is the best way to break the bond. I think it takes 400 degrees to loosten the red stuff.

 

[nickyd]

ellandoh, there is no seal on or behind the clutch hub. Part number 28 you are referencing is the crank seal, which is behind the primary gear. The shaft the clutch hub rides on is the transmission main shaft. There is no need for a seal, as it is all bathed in tranny oil.

there we go. I sure hoped I wasn't losing my mind!!

 

[ellandoh]

i am though :bang:

better safe than sorry though , i'd rather not tell a guy to put heat to something and next thing hes smelling rubber and caused more problems

 

[crazy4nitro]

Dude find someone with a Snap-on 1/2" impact gun,trust me they are the best..600ft/#'s of torque :yikes: these will break red lock-tite :boss:

Also make sure the air hose is at least 3/8" ID, flow is key here...(pressure to but we know that)...long hoses kill performance too.. :ohmy:

Crazy

 

[nickyd]

better safe than sorry though , i'd rather not tell a guy to put heat to something and next thing hes smelling rubber and caused more problems

I agree - in this case there is no seal but in other cases such as the kickstarter/primary gear you do have to be wary of the seal that is under there - I use the heat at a 90 angle in these cases. as long as you don't shoot the flame down at the seal lip, you are fine. I also use a digital temperature gun where applicable. I like to avoid using too much heat at all times to avoid warping.

 

[mazuniga]

Here is a good recomendation....cheap an easy..

use a long (more than 3 feet) and strong steel pipe to increase the lever...that will breake loose almost anything.
if you use a 6 feet or more pipe , you can use all you body weight.. lets say 200 lbs by the 6 ft.....mmmhhh ....better than an air impact wrench....

 

[crazy4nitro]

Here is a good recomendation....cheap an easy..

use a long (more than 3 feet) and strong steel pipe to increase the lever...that will breake loose almost anything.
if you use a 6 feet or more pipe , you can use all you body weight.. lets say 200 lbs by the 6 ft.....mmmhhh ....better than an air impact wrench....

In some cases a "cheater bar" works..do you think the fingers on the clutch can handle the torque your talking about...I used my impact and held the basket with my hand ...(in a glove of course).the vibration helps also...

xprojectstevex,
Good luck in your adventures :cool:

Crazy4nitro

 

[mazuniga]

you can hold the clutch basket with the special tool.... but you can add some strong resistance by putting some small aluminium piece betwen the primary drive gear and the clutch drum gear...it will not damage the gear ... the aluminium piece will take the beating here...

 

[xprojectstevex]

All of these are good ideas. I would do the pipe idea but I have already shattered the hub into pieces and the holding tool won't stay on the hub unless I hold it with my other hand. I don't have a torch either to heat it up with, the only thing I have is a portisol soldering tool that I doubt will work. I guess this is the price I pay for trying to fix **** myself instead of paying someone else hundreds of dollars to rebuild my bottum end. Thank you all for the ideas I will find a way to try them all until something works.

 

[crazy4nitro]

Hey maybe you could ask a mechanic at a garage if they would be willing to back that nut of it for you. They will have an impact that will get it off,easy at that. ya know it's already broke so they know their not responsible..worth a try..

Crazy4nitro

 

[mikecr125]

a hard quick jolt works well take a breaker bar any put it on the nut and just hit the wrench dont use downward force actually hit it that works real well forget impacts they rarely work properly

 

[Badgadjit1]

is it reverse threaded? i'm about to take mine off too...that'd be nice to know. YZ 250 99'