Three strikes law

[a454elk]

So what do you think, does it work, should we keep it? To be honest, I'm not sure if it is doing what it is supposed to. Sometimes it turns a simple, minor situation into a dangerous one. What I mean is that if someone has 2 strikes already and they just did something that might make it 3, even though it might be minor, do you think that guy/gal is going to give up right away. Kind of like cornering an animal in a cage, no where to go. Does it deter the 2nd strike criminal? Not sure. They say no, we say yes. I don't think it matters what punishment we offer, some don't respond to it.

What do you think? Just curious.
Elk

 

[JWW]

Like you said I think it forces some people into a even more dangerous situation. Kinda like the movies "They will never put me back in jail". So the guy runs.

I do think some of the crimes dont get the punishment they deserve.

Maybe their needs to be a way to dish out 3 strikes to more serious crimes and somehow bypass the more mnor infractions.

 

[zio]

I say leave it. These are for felonies, right? Three Felonies! I, for one, don't plan on committing a felony any time soon. And I sure hope that if I got one, I'd be pretty scared and never do anything to get another, ever again. I'm sure that goes for most other citizens as well.

You do one, fine. You pay the price, then get forgiven & get a second chance on life. You commit a second- o.k.- we'll still give you the benefit of the doubt. Pay your price then shape up. No more chances.


So these mulitple offenders, regardless of the crime, get the punishment they deserve. Get 'em out of society. They're no good.

 

[JuliusPleaser]

I'm with zio on this one. Two felonies is enough. If you can't rehabilitate yourself with the threat of life in prison hanging over you, there's no hope for ya.

 

[BunduBasher]

so a guy steals a candy bar, strike one, a pair of jeans, strike two, and then does something like punch someones lights out (steal something else) etc, strike three, put the away for life.

Now you have Mr Enron here, plus others, steal millions, probably do a few years, and they go free, retire to the bahamas.

there are many other such scenarios.

with all things in life there needs to be a balance, some judges do not even have the option, they are forced to strike them out, not even offer an alternative, stiff sentance etc, just life without parole. The sentence should be in the judges hands.

 

[Old CR goat]

Oh no, don't leave it in the judge's hands, hell there is enough of that in lower courts, I KNOW.
Leave it! 3 strikes you're out.

 

[AJ Waggoner]

Bundu -
nothing personal here-
but if you get a felony conviction for stealing one candy bar or
one pair of jeans in the US court system..you are in more trouble than a three strike system can fix ;)

Keep in mind most cases are plea bargined to a lesser conviction.
If someone has three felony convictions they have likely been charged with numorous felonies thru thier adult life.

Also keep in mind anything charges as a minor cannot be used or even brought up in any case when you are an adult..
so the candy bar scenario is a lil but much..lol

The guy that stole my truck fairly recently...
had 24 felony CONVICTIONS in 20 years.He was 44 years old.
Let me ask anyone why he was out on parole on the streets?
He was charged with 3 felony counts
( there was more to it than grand theft auto)
and now has seven years but will be up for parole in three.

Will he be a decent member of society then?
He hasnt learned anything from his past 10 jail terms.
:uh:

 

[Okiewan]

AJ took the words right out of my mouth...
How many chances should someone get? I'm sooo tired of excuses, blame and the like. If you don't get it by the third time? Tough. Buh-Bye.

Three chances not to be a loser IS balance.

 

[Person8]

I believe the three strikes laws are designed to get un-rehabilitatatable criminals off the streets. If they haven't learned the lesson the first and second times through, they just aren't going to learn. To protect society from these loosers, they are removed.

Larry

 

[singletracker500]

Agreed...three strikes, and you're out! I have no use for criminals. :think Nobody is going to jail for stealing candy bars, but the piece of garbage that stole your bike Bundu, should! If it was his first, or third criminal act.

 

[BunduBasher]

Let's just say, the guy who stole my bike, he is arrested and charged, it is his third felony conviction, should he go to jail for life ? I don't think so. Yes take habitual criminals off the streets, even for life, but lets do it justly. JUSTICE is what I seek, not knee jerk decisions made out of fear.

AJ, maybe the guy who stole your truck deserves to be in jail for life, still he is going to jail, and he is serving time for the crime he committed. Once you have served your time, parole etc, you have paid your debt. The 3 strike rules basically cancels that out. Yes, it may deter some, especially those who want to stay on the straight and narrow, on the other hand it does a lot of harm. There is no statute of limitations, your life's history is taken into account, you could have committed two felonies when you were just out of school, thirty years later, you have kids, family etc, commit one more and you are away for life (this is happening !), seems unjust to me. I would prefer a points system, accumulate a certain number of points you go away, stay clean for 10 years, and you get your points back.

How can a judge who knows he should send a guy to jail for 5 years for a crime then be forced to send a guy away for life because of the 3 strike rule. There are people in jail doing time for life, no parole, who should not be there. Our justice system should be able to deal with this without having its hands tied. The 3 strike rule basically does that.

Think of it this way, you rack up some points on your driving license, 1 more and your license is taken away for life, so you drive safely for the rest of your life, so far so good, then one day 20 years down the line, you get caught speeding, do they take away your license to drive for life ? Similar logic should apply.

BTW, I have seen the inside of a prison, know what death row looks like, and have absolutely no time for habitual criminals. All I ask for is justice.

I always believe in applying justice as you would to a family member, be it your father, brother, child etc. I can bet if it were a family member about to be put away for life your position may change some ?!

 

[kingriz1]

Our rehabilitation system is crap. The system is set up to fail. You cant put someone in a cage and a violent place where you have to fight to survive. Teach a man no skills. Then when he gets out he cant get a job or an apartment because of a mistake that he paid for. And then we expect the people to be cool and function is society. Maybe in a perfect world, but we don't live in one.

People make mistakes. The system should be there to punish and rehabilitate. All we do is make them into animals.

Elk I often wonder why the state or Government is not responsible to what happens to someone while under their custody.

A car thief is sentenced to 3 years , he was not sentenced to getting shanked in the yard or raped or killed. I think if we made the people in charge liable for the people inside this would cause a serious change in the system, and we might see some people change their lives. The way it is now, we are just waiting for the people to come back thru the doors.

 

[Okiewan]

I really want to respond, but...

 

[BSWIFT]

Make a misdemenor mistake, get another chance.
Make a felonious mistake, go to jail.
Make another felonious mistake, go to jail, again.
Make another felonious mistake, go to jail, forever.:uh:
Make no mistakes, stay out of jail.
Take away the weight rooms, the computers, the cable TV. Give them a library and 1 hour in the yard. Feed them a steady diet of laxatives to keep the close to their cells. There would be no need for prisons if people would just obey the law.
Rehabilitate? Why is it that 5% of people commit 95% of all crime? OZ is just a television show on HBO and is where Dorthy went in her dream. Reality is much more, well, real. I have a friend that works in the Federal Corrections(PRISONS) department. He would laugh histerically in your face for suggesting rehab.

 

[longtime]

Lots of unassailable statistics prove that a very, very small number of repeat offenders commit a huge percentage of our crimes. So yes, if you find one of these habitual criminals, lock them up for good -- the benefits are proven.

p.s. the drunk driver who nailed me was an 18 time loser with 5 prior DUI's (approx.). So there's a perfect example of "drunk driving? Come on . . . don't lock him up for life" if you are so inclined. But I know better. I want him OFF THE STREETS!

 

[BunduBasher]

He would laugh histerically in your face for suggesting rehab

Without rehab. we might as well throw away the key on the first offense !

 

[longtime]

Originally posted by BunduBasher


Without rehab. we might as well throw away the key on the first offense !

Not necessarily. Some learn that they don't like incarceration -- all on their own.

 

[singletracker500]

Originally posted by LongTime

p.s. the drunk driver who nailed me was an 18 time loser with 5 prior DUI's (approx.). So there's a perfect example of "drunk driving? Come on . . . don't lock him up for life" if you are so inclined. But I know better. I want him OFF THE STREETS!

Now now, don't get upset LongTime....he just made a "mistake"! :think 18 times! :mad:

 

[BunduBasher]

Some learn that they don't like incarceration -- all on their own

True, and if they can become a productive member of society when they get out, so much the better. While my tax dollars are at working incarcerating the bugger, I would hope he would learn some more useful skills other than the latest car theft tricks etc.

 

[kingriz1]

Ok first of all Fed and state prisons are two different stories.

Federal prison is for the most part a livable place with human beings. Its changing now that a lot of drug cases are going federal. More and more of the thug animals are getting in, making the prisons worst. federal prisons are run pretty decently. Maybe even too nice to the inmates.

State prison is a place where all you will learn is hate and violence. It is a disgusting and dangerous place.

You guys will notice my posts over the last week have dropped significantly. Last Sat nite some ***hole(s) broke into my mattress store and took my computer system. Printer, Scanner, dsl modem everything. With about 3 months of work I have to do again on the hard drive. They also took the cash register (i guess the idiot did not know just to hit nosale) with about 500 bucks in it. They left my little TV but took my remote control(that irritates me every time I want to change the channel). All told about 1700 in damage.

:p
Now I hope the cops(who were really nice!) catch whoever was responsible(though I doubt they will), and get my stuff back. But I dont think they are going to go to prison and come out better people.

 

[BunduBasher]

You guys will notice my posts over the last week have dropped significantly. ... and took my computer system

Eh Riz .... maybe your 'puter should be stolen more often :confused:

Just raggin on ya :D

 

[stormer94]

A car thief is sentenced to 3 years , he was not sentenced to getting shanked in the yard or raped or killed.

I can't help but think that certain 'wannabe' criminals think about prison, getting shanked, raped and or killed and MAYBE give it a second thought. The thought of going to prison probably doesn't bother to many people. HECK, I could use a few years of rest, no job, no worries, 3 hots and a cot. Catch up on my reading, write a novel, etc. It's the thought of how VILE prison is that keeps it from being appealing and helps keep people OUT. The thought of getting stabbed, killed, raped (every day), and all the other nastiness of it all is what keeps it from being the Holiday Inn that it technically is. Prison isn't scary, the people in it and their way of life is. THAT is the deterent for most folks. And that's fine with me.

I like the thought that prison can and likely is a dangerous, evil, vile place that people don't want to go to. THAT IS THE IDEA ISN'T IT? To make people NOT want to go to prison. How do we NOT go to prison? By simply following the laws. And you have to screw up in a MAJOR way to find yourself doing 5 years in a federal pen, courtesy of all the 'wishy-washy' laws that give some people WAY to many rights.

A guy caught on tape killing a convenience store clerk. "Son, that's you on the tape, this is your gun, these 90 people saw it, and you signed autographs in the parking lot after you did it..." Why do we need to have a trial for that...? :( cripes... To many laws to protect the guilty.

3 strikes is plenty generous in my opinion. And how many people in prison are actually in for that? HOW MANY SHOULD BE? It's a lame law because it is un-enforced.

Am I to harsh? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm the right side of the law, have a nice home, great kids and wife, and quite frankly, I don't think the prison life can be harsh enough. It should be so bad that the people inside take re-habilitation on themselves, thinking, D...A...M...N... I ain't NEVER coming back here again. I need to get educated, get a job and get my act together. You can find yourself in prison, with all the time in the world to think about it, and realize that you need to make some changes in your life. Doesn't take an IQ over about 50 to put that scenario together. (balancing a checkbook takes about 70, so it's not tough to put that thought string together). "I'm in prison for breaking laws. Hmm, me not like prison George, me do better next time. Me need to get education, and fix life".

3 strikes... sad that it's not enforced.

Our small community had the EXCELLENT opportunity to have a federal prison built and run 10 miles from town. 300 new jobs in a town of 3000 that is based on farming in the middle of nowhere Montana (Chrysler is not moving here, if you get the idea). Millions of tax revenue would have spilled into our economy. Some of those in charge didn't like the idea and the prison folks moved on down the road and built it in an even smaller, BUT GRATEFUL community that used the money to build new schools and attract people. Our town with a shrinking tax base, shrinking school enrollment, and just dozed one of our 4 schools... "I'm for having evil-doers in prison, just not in my backyard..." That's what those opposed to it said. That's moral cowardace, and it irritates me to the core.

*whew* gotta get off the soapbox, I'm starting to sound like my dad. :scream:

 

[kingriz1]

Flip side,

You give a guy a ride to the store to cash a check. On the way home you get pulled over for what you think must be speeding or a headlight is out.

Then you find out the guy cashed a fraudulent check and you get nabbed as an accomplice. So here you are 2 years in state prison for theft and bank fraud (being an accomplice cuz the DA wants to keep his numbers up).

Next thing you know you feel some pressure and its warm on your side. You look down. **** blood. Some guy just shanked you cuz you looked at him wrong. Sound crazy happened to one of my best friends. He is ok. Spent some time in the infirmary and the cut was not deep.

So now you are him. How would you feel?

**** three years without women, my freedom and eating ****ty food is punishment enough. I dont need to get shanked to learn my lesson.

If I ever do anything that I end up in jail for, I will make sure I get charged federal. I will be like "Did I mention I mailed that?".;)

Anyway I firmly believe prison should not be punishment and rehab not a 4 star hotel, but someone should be held accountable for the safety of the inmates.


NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT!

 

[stormer94]

kingriz1,

I thought about your scenario. I don't think I would have ended up in the pen for 2 years for a couple of reasons. If your bud' did, that's a bummer and I feel for you.

However.

1st, I can't help but think to be prosecuted as an accomplice you'd have to know something about the crime.

2nd, I can't help but think I would only get restitution out of the deal because I have ZERO, and I mean zero things in my police file. You don't get 2 years on a first offence for a few hundred bucks if you are a good citizen and knew NOTHING about it.

3rd, at least I'm 99.99% sure I don't hang around people that would get me in that kind of trouble.

4th, prison sucks, everybody knows it, STAY OUT OF PRISON by avoiding the kinds of things and people that will take you there.

You have a good job, great family, involved in the community, are a good citizen, you give a buddy a lift, you know NOTHING about what he's up to. He blows a $500 fraudulent check, you're not going to do time for it, no way in h.e.l.l. I'd be so PO'd at that guy the cops would instantly know I had nothing to do with it.

Mind you, to get to the point where you had to go to prison, you'd have to rot in jail for a court date. Let's see, you (as a nice citizen in good standing) gave a guy a lift, he cashed a bad check, you are now in the county jail for a minimum of 30 days without bail awaiting a trial??? HOW did that happen? Sorry, it's unbelievable to me. You do jail because you are a risk to society, a guy giving another dude a lift is NOT a risk to society. Bail is high because you are a risk for not showing up.

Sorry man, it may be true, but for your bud to do time (and I feel for ya if he's a bud) it was not a travesty of justice. 2 years for giving a dude a lift ain't happening on accident.

I worked with a guy that was always being a MAJOR screwup. Dating underage chicks, stalking, temporary restraining order violations, abuse, etc... He'd forever get himself in some kind of trouble, and it was always, "The MAN has it in for me". After the 4th time of making bail for him, and sitting in on some of the trials, he deserved everything he got, and I still like the guy. He's smartened up too.

He violated a restraining order, the judge slapped his wrists. He did it again, claimed she contacted him. Judge gave him a week in jail. He did it again... see the pattern here. The judge gives him restrictions, like he's supposed to be home by midnight every night of the week, not supposed to drink, can't be in a bar, etc. Had it been me, and knowing the alternative for screwing up this nice thing the judge did for me, I'd have been home by 11 and called the cops to let them know I was home, it isn't a game, it's your life. He goes out cruising with some chicks, goes to jail and tells us he was home by midnight. At the courtdate, we find out he was out at 3 am drinking with his buddies, convinced that the MAN had it in for him. I've seen it with other people I know who brush the law. I've seen enough of it to know that 99.99% of the time, there are no innocent people in prison.

The series of events it would take to get any of us on these boards, while sitting around the house, to get arrested for something you didn't do, and then do 2 years for it is astronomical.

I've driven people to jail on work release, made bail for more than 3 people I know, sat in on court cases, been a witness in a trial, been in a jury, visited freinds in jail, and written statements and helped the law solve problems. I've seen my share of the legal system (thankfully as an outsider, and a sucker to offer up bail), and I know that I'm not accidentally going to jail for anything. If I end up there, I'll have deserved it. And I won't blame my parents, TV, Ozzy Osbourne, or the media for it either. :ugg:

 

[kingriz1]

Try being a black man in a small town in west texas. Snyder Tx a town of 12,000 people and a DA with a hard on.

Perry had never before been arrested for anything other than a couple of Mip's (minor in posession of alcahol) In little farm towns everyone has keg parties out in the cotton fields.

It was a harsh sentence but it was his sentence none the less.

I know what it is like to be the bail man, I have a VIP card for a bail bonds company.

Most people get off easy. Most dont even get caught state and local cops could not catch a rat with cheese. They either get lucky the guy screws up (driving around with expired tags and some dope) or a snitch.

Maybe they are underfunded and over worked. I dont know.

Federal cops on the other hand, those guys get you fast and when they got you they got you.

We use Joshua Webber here in Dallas for a criminal atttorney. He is by far the best defense lawyer (state cases) that I have ever seen. He gets you off when your guilty.
I wish he was in Snyder when Perry caught that case. Yes his friends were shady. Apparently stormer so are some of yours.

As long as they are not Rapist or Child molesters I say they deserve a fair shot at straightening out their lives. Dirty cops can rot in jail too for all I care.

All crimes with the exception of the above might have an explanation. Maybe not a good one, but there is a chance there was a reason.

Sincerely,

Riz