TM 400 MX ride report, carb woes, help needed
- Thread starter Camstyn
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #27
The USA is the only country that comes with the Ohlins standard. Otherwise, there are four choices.. Paioli Blue Steel forks, Marzocchi 50mm conventional forks, Paioli 46mm USD forks, and the Ohlins 46mm USD. If I had ordered my bike I would have probably paid the extra $750 for the Ohlins, but this bike was already here and I'd still be bikeless for another month or so waiting for it if I had to order it.
I'm not sure what they have done with the Paioli forks this year, but they are pretty decent, better than what I had heard from previous years. I let a few guys try my bike and they liked the forks.. For me it's hard to tell as I'm almost 300lbs and I haven't touched a clicker yet, but they work pretty well so far. My buddy's '02 KTM 400SX with the 48mm WP's is plusher over the chop, I did notice.
I'm not sure what they have done with the Paioli forks this year, but they are pretty decent, better than what I had heard from previous years. I let a few guys try my bike and they liked the forks.. For me it's hard to tell as I'm almost 300lbs and I haven't touched a clicker yet, but they work pretty well so far. My buddy's '02 KTM 400SX with the 48mm WP's is plusher over the chop, I did notice.
I see...well here in the US all the 2-stroke MXers & the 400 Thumper MX & Enduro version come with the Ohlins...the 250 thumper enduro model has the green 46mm USD Paiolis which is what I'm getting....they are working with Kayaba & have gotten much better then in past years...
broke in the TM250 thumper yesterday & here's my quick thoughts..
definitely underpowered compared to the YZF(but remember it's an enduro version)...
starts really easy.....cuts thru it's powerband a lot quicker then a YZF...doesn't have the high rpm ponies of a YZF...
turns & sticks really well....very stable & predictable....
brakes,tranny & clutch all work first rate...
suspension was very good stock...fork needed a couple of clicks on compression but otherwise the suspension was very good...
basically outside of the engine(when compared to a YZF) being like a KX125 compared to a KTM125 it is a very nice package...
I would venture to say the engine would be very good for it's intended purpose of off road work....
I"ll be riding it some more in the next couple of weeks & as I put saddle time on it I'm sure I'll learn a lot more....
definitely underpowered compared to the YZF(but remember it's an enduro version)...
starts really easy.....cuts thru it's powerband a lot quicker then a YZF...doesn't have the high rpm ponies of a YZF...
turns & sticks really well....very stable & predictable....
brakes,tranny & clutch all work first rate...
suspension was very good stock...fork needed a couple of clicks on compression but otherwise the suspension was very good...
basically outside of the engine(when compared to a YZF) being like a KX125 compared to a KTM125 it is a very nice package...
I would venture to say the engine would be very good for it's intended purpose of off road work....
I"ll be riding it some more in the next couple of weeks & as I put saddle time on it I'm sure I'll learn a lot more....
- Thread starter
- #34
One thing you might try, if I haven't already mentioned, is remove the rear brake pedal spring. You get ten times more feel on the rear brake that way. It is way too stiff of a spring and I noticed a huge improvement.
Also, safety wire the rubber cap on the clutch line bleeder valve, if hasn't already come off. It's not secured very well.
Also safety wire the cable arm on at the bottom end of the decompression cable. Mine popped out of the arm, safety wire fixed that.
I was at higher elevations today and the bike was definitely running rich, I'm going to try dropping the needle one or two clip positions.
How did you find it for starting? Mine was tough when it was brand new, but has since gotten to be superb. Since you're a YZF owner I'm sure you are already familiar with the drill. You can almost always skip the hot start button, as an added bonus.
Check where the kickstart arm meets the footpeg, on mine it was coming down onto a tooth and gouging it a bit. I was going to flatten out that tooth, or file it off, but I noticed that after it got to a certain point, it stopped gouging any deeper, so I just left it.
You will hopefully find that this motor gets better and better every time you ride it, mine did. Mine took about seven or eight rides before it reached it's potential.
The YZF oil filters fit.
Also, safety wire the rubber cap on the clutch line bleeder valve, if hasn't already come off. It's not secured very well.
Also safety wire the cable arm on at the bottom end of the decompression cable. Mine popped out of the arm, safety wire fixed that.
I was at higher elevations today and the bike was definitely running rich, I'm going to try dropping the needle one or two clip positions.
How did you find it for starting? Mine was tough when it was brand new, but has since gotten to be superb. Since you're a YZF owner I'm sure you are already familiar with the drill. You can almost always skip the hot start button, as an added bonus.
Check where the kickstart arm meets the footpeg, on mine it was coming down onto a tooth and gouging it a bit. I was going to flatten out that tooth, or file it off, but I noticed that after it got to a certain point, it stopped gouging any deeper, so I just left it.
You will hopefully find that this motor gets better and better every time you ride it, mine did. Mine took about seven or eight rides before it reached it's potential.
The YZF oil filters fit.
Norman Cobb
Member
- May 26, 2002
- 1
- 0
Hi Cam
I'm new to this forum thing but here goes. As a back ground I'm the TM distributor in New Zealand but most of my work is Suspension Tuning.
I think the problem with your TM is crap in the carb.
The manual says do not water blast the carb - water will get in around the accelerator pump. The other thing to check is the fuel tap. I have not checked the 4 stroke but the 2 strokes have a reserve position. If you remove the tap you can disable this by removing the pastic tube. Why carry more fuel than you need or run the risk of forgetting to use the reserve position. Have had bikes with small amounts of plastic in the fuel tanks but this is usually caught by the screen.
Interesting that you like the new Paioli. I had reports that they have a longer bottoming cone for 02 (65mm with triple taper) I liked the forks but the Ohlins are much better quality.
Hot set up on the Ohlins for mud use is to run the Paioli twin lip dust seal. Also there is a new protector available for the Ohlins forks that replaces the wire clip at the bottom of the outer tube #02409-01 much better portection than std
I'm new to this forum thing but here goes. As a back ground I'm the TM distributor in New Zealand but most of my work is Suspension Tuning.
I think the problem with your TM is crap in the carb.
The manual says do not water blast the carb - water will get in around the accelerator pump. The other thing to check is the fuel tap. I have not checked the 4 stroke but the 2 strokes have a reserve position. If you remove the tap you can disable this by removing the pastic tube. Why carry more fuel than you need or run the risk of forgetting to use the reserve position. Have had bikes with small amounts of plastic in the fuel tanks but this is usually caught by the screen.
Interesting that you like the new Paioli. I had reports that they have a longer bottoming cone for 02 (65mm with triple taper) I liked the forks but the Ohlins are much better quality.
Hot set up on the Ohlins for mud use is to run the Paioli twin lip dust seal. Also there is a new protector available for the Ohlins forks that replaces the wire clip at the bottom of the outer tube #02409-01 much better portection than std
Welcome to the forums Norm. I am one of your happy customers from several years back, then (circa 98) with an XR400 you set up with Racetech Goldvalves. Thanks again.
I saw Henk's TM250 the other day and have since been putting together a business case for presentation to the War Office for another bike. Nice piece of kit!
Are you selling Ohlins shocks/forks now?
- Grant
I saw Henk's TM250 the other day and have since been putting together a business case for presentation to the War Office for another bike. Nice piece of kit!
Are you selling Ohlins shocks/forks now?
- Grant
- Thread starter
- #37
Get some radiator guards, guys..
While washing my bike, I leaned it up against my truck to wash the undercarriage.. The bike rolled ahead and fell against the back corner of the truck, the radiator shroud bent the left radiator in about half of an inch where the bolt is.
Funny thing is I bought radiator guards two weeks ago and have been too lazy to put them on.
FWIW, apparently the KTM 250/300/380 guards fit with slight modifications. I haven't attempted to mount mine yet, so I can't tell you what's all involved, but chasejj put Flatland Racing rad guards on his 400 for the KTM250/300/380 which were pre-modified by a TM guru.
While washing my bike, I leaned it up against my truck to wash the undercarriage.. The bike rolled ahead and fell against the back corner of the truck, the radiator shroud bent the left radiator in about half of an inch where the bolt is.
Funny thing is I bought radiator guards two weeks ago and have been too lazy to put them on.
FWIW, apparently the KTM 250/300/380 guards fit with slight modifications. I haven't attempted to mount mine yet, so I can't tell you what's all involved, but chasejj put Flatland Racing rad guards on his 400 for the KTM250/300/380 which were pre-modified by a TM guru.
Cam....the little rubber clutch bleeder cover was gone before I got home from the dealer...LOL...
250 starts very easy hot or cold so far....never more then 2 kicks ;)
as far as engine getting stronger...well it's got a long ways to go to get up to YZF standards...sorry but that's just the way it is....
hey I will say this I was really impressed with the ergos & manners of it & I can say it handled every bit as well as the YZF & was better in the turns....
250 starts very easy hot or cold so far....never more then 2 kicks ;)
as far as engine getting stronger...well it's got a long ways to go to get up to YZF standards...sorry but that's just the way it is....
hey I will say this I was really impressed with the ergos & manners of it & I can say it handled every bit as well as the YZF & was better in the turns....
I guess I've been lazy about posting updates.
Hold on the KTM radiator guards fitting. I just actually got to putting them on and they have definite fitment issues even though P. Bloyer(my TM guru) said they fit. They seem too short for one I feel I have more protectiion from sticks with the stock ones. Bloyer omitted the cross braces(I believe due to fitment problems). I may be returning them to him and looking elsewhere. BTW. He is making up a run of brake pedals using a version of the e-rider folding tip from KTM's. I'll be getting mine soon. :aj:
Hold on the KTM radiator guards fitting. I just actually got to putting them on and they have definite fitment issues even though P. Bloyer(my TM guru) said they fit. They seem too short for one I feel I have more protectiion from sticks with the stock ones. Bloyer omitted the cross braces(I believe due to fitment problems). I may be returning them to him and looking elsewhere. BTW. He is making up a run of brake pedals using a version of the e-rider folding tip from KTM's. I'll be getting mine soon. :aj:
well here's some notes now that I've had a chance to give the TM the mechanical once over...
"Downers"
lots of metal shavings in the oil :ugg:
one seat bolt lines up terribly...a real pain in the ass
the carb is buried somewhere in there...LOL
gas cap is hard to thread back on...
seat cover already coming apart at the front...
allen heads abound
"Uppers"
oil filter easy access
airbox sealed with silicone from the factory
grease in abundence
never seize used on bolts
magura hydraulic clutch...very sweet
sweet bars
top quality chain & sprockets
pipe springs covered with rubber hosing
hubs are works of art
truly a hand built bike
"Downers"
lots of metal shavings in the oil :ugg:
one seat bolt lines up terribly...a real pain in the ass
the carb is buried somewhere in there...LOL
gas cap is hard to thread back on...
seat cover already coming apart at the front...
allen heads abound
"Uppers"
oil filter easy access
airbox sealed with silicone from the factory
grease in abundence
never seize used on bolts
magura hydraulic clutch...very sweet
sweet bars
top quality chain & sprockets
pipe springs covered with rubber hosing
hubs are works of art
truly a hand built bike
- Thread starter
- #41
Regarding the seat bolts, mine was tough to get on at first also. I'm not sure if it got better, or if I just got better at it. FWIW, you have to push the back of the seat forward and down a bit to get the right side seat bolt in.
My gas cap was also very hard to thread on, almost like it didn't fit properly.. And if you don't muscle it on VERY tight, it would leak. I swapped it with my buddy's KTM 400SX gas cap, it works fine. Same size and brand (Acerbis), I don't know what the difference is. Perhaps somebody was sniffing glue on the assembly line when they made a batch.
One thing too, regarding the reason this thread was created, it looks like my bogging mystery is gone.
First, I drained the carb and fuel tank, and raised the needle one notch on the clip. I used the same batch of fuel after I did this (after running it through a filter and getting a bit of crap caught up in the filter), the bike stalled on me once more like it had done before.
I've since ridden it four times and it hasn't bogged/stalled once. It was running quite rich and blubbering a bit at higher elevations, so I'm going to drop the needle two notches as per chasejj's recommendation and see if that cleans it up.
I was surprised that the bike reacted this much to the elevation change, coming off of a '94 KX500 and '00 KX250 which I never noticed much / any difference in the way the bike would run.
Mine also had a lot of metal shavings in the oil the first oil change.. The drian plug has a magnet and it was covered, as well as the oil filter. I put a new oil filter in and monitored it, every oil change since then there has barely been anything on the magnet on the drain bolt, and the oil filter was almost spotless.
My gas cap was also very hard to thread on, almost like it didn't fit properly.. And if you don't muscle it on VERY tight, it would leak. I swapped it with my buddy's KTM 400SX gas cap, it works fine. Same size and brand (Acerbis), I don't know what the difference is. Perhaps somebody was sniffing glue on the assembly line when they made a batch.
One thing too, regarding the reason this thread was created, it looks like my bogging mystery is gone.
First, I drained the carb and fuel tank, and raised the needle one notch on the clip. I used the same batch of fuel after I did this (after running it through a filter and getting a bit of crap caught up in the filter), the bike stalled on me once more like it had done before.
I've since ridden it four times and it hasn't bogged/stalled once. It was running quite rich and blubbering a bit at higher elevations, so I'm going to drop the needle two notches as per chasejj's recommendation and see if that cleans it up.
I was surprised that the bike reacted this much to the elevation change, coming off of a '94 KX500 and '00 KX250 which I never noticed much / any difference in the way the bike would run.
Mine also had a lot of metal shavings in the oil the first oil change.. The drian plug has a magnet and it was covered, as well as the oil filter. I put a new oil filter in and monitored it, every oil change since then there has barely been anything on the magnet on the drain bolt, and the oil filter was almost spotless.
yeah that gas cap thing has you doing double & triple takes huh?...
my seat is exactly as you describe & yes you need to be like gumby to get it lined up & get the bolt threaded w/o it stripping....
good to hear your metal shavings deal & going forward I'm sure mine will be the same as yours....
glad to hear your bogging deal is fixed...
so far the engine on the 250 thumper is very well mannered....starts super easy & exhibits excellent manners....
my seat is exactly as you describe & yes you need to be like gumby to get it lined up & get the bolt threaded w/o it stripping....
good to hear your metal shavings deal & going forward I'm sure mine will be the same as yours....
glad to hear your bogging deal is fixed...
so far the engine on the 250 thumper is very well mannered....starts super easy & exhibits excellent manners....
- Thread starter
- #43
If you look at my member gallery, does yours share the same frame? Engine cases? How about the muffler?
I still haven't seen the 250 thumper in person.
I find that these bolts don't strip easy compared to my KX's.. I go a little berzerk on the bolts sometimes and have a habit of stripping them. My motto: Keep turning until it gets easy again, then back it off half a turn.. :)
The TM fasteners seem higher quality than the KX ones I'm used to. I've yet to strip a thread.
One thing you might try as well, the rear brake reservoir bolts could be swapped for the same screws as what's on the radiator shrouds. Apparently they tear up your boots, stock.. They didn't bother me, so I left them.
My exhaust seems to pop and be quite obnoxious to whoever is following.. I'm thinking it's a rich condition, unburnt gas exploding in the pipe. It always does it when you're using engine compression to slow down, as well as revving it on the stand. It seemed to get worse at higher elevations when the bike was running richer.
Does yours do the same?
I still haven't seen the 250 thumper in person.
I find that these bolts don't strip easy compared to my KX's.. I go a little berzerk on the bolts sometimes and have a habit of stripping them. My motto: Keep turning until it gets easy again, then back it off half a turn.. :)
The TM fasteners seem higher quality than the KX ones I'm used to. I've yet to strip a thread.
One thing you might try as well, the rear brake reservoir bolts could be swapped for the same screws as what's on the radiator shrouds. Apparently they tear up your boots, stock.. They didn't bother me, so I left them.
My exhaust seems to pop and be quite obnoxious to whoever is following.. I'm thinking it's a rich condition, unburnt gas exploding in the pipe. It always does it when you're using engine compression to slow down, as well as revving it on the stand. It seemed to get worse at higher elevations when the bike was running richer.
Does yours do the same?
Welcome to Dirtrider.net Norman Cobb,
Some backround for you all on Norm.
Norm is an absolute master of suspension, he has designed and constructed valving kits for almost all types of suspension out there. His kits are the equivalent or better quality than race tech or ohlins. He has his own web site = suspensiontech.com.
I have had norm work on mine and lots of mates bikes and he really knows his stuff. (by the way I dont work for him or have any attachment to him).
He is also the New Zealand Tm importer and knows these bikes inside out so any questions you guys might have just fire them at Norm.
By the way Norm is still very fast and often finishes in top placing in our local motorcross scene against guys half his age, so he knows what suspension does at speed.
He has that rear gift of being practical(can ride a bike very fast) and technical (engineering his own valves - understanding how it all works).
He also has worked on bikes for such notables like Darryll King (ex no2 world 500cc motocross champion - twice) and other top NZ riders.
I have been trying to get Norm on the site for about a year, so a big welcome Norm, it is great having these type of people on this forum.
Cheers
Red
Some backround for you all on Norm.
Norm is an absolute master of suspension, he has designed and constructed valving kits for almost all types of suspension out there. His kits are the equivalent or better quality than race tech or ohlins. He has his own web site = suspensiontech.com.
I have had norm work on mine and lots of mates bikes and he really knows his stuff. (by the way I dont work for him or have any attachment to him).
He is also the New Zealand Tm importer and knows these bikes inside out so any questions you guys might have just fire them at Norm.
By the way Norm is still very fast and often finishes in top placing in our local motorcross scene against guys half his age, so he knows what suspension does at speed.
He has that rear gift of being practical(can ride a bike very fast) and technical (engineering his own valves - understanding how it all works).
He also has worked on bikes for such notables like Darryll King (ex no2 world 500cc motocross champion - twice) and other top NZ riders.
I have been trying to get Norm on the site for about a year, so a big welcome Norm, it is great having these type of people on this forum.
Cheers
Red
Regarding the seat alignment: Yes it does suck.....but with a little patience and a pair of pliers you can bend the mounts on the frame and get things to line up.......acceptably. :moon:
Metal Shavings: Normal on the first oil change. A few on the second none after that. Guys we got a hand built blue printed motor. Tolerances are tight and things parts need to wear in. :moon:
Fasteners: Well. I think they are better than most Japanese brands(except Honda maybe) The motor screws are excellent quality.
I like to do things beyond just good enough so I went to Racebolts.com and replaced every fastener on the chassis/forks with titanium. I am having the axle nuts custom made in Ti right now so they match at 27mm. Cam- do youself a favor and buy a decent torque wrench and use it. You would be amazed at how good you will become at torqueing on your own after using it a while. :aj:
Overall I love this bike. For my type of riding (off-road/enduros/hare scrambles) it would only be better with e-start to negate any lame stall out I do in the tight stuff. :aj:
Metal Shavings: Normal on the first oil change. A few on the second none after that. Guys we got a hand built blue printed motor. Tolerances are tight and things parts need to wear in. :moon:
Fasteners: Well. I think they are better than most Japanese brands(except Honda maybe) The motor screws are excellent quality.
I like to do things beyond just good enough so I went to Racebolts.com and replaced every fastener on the chassis/forks with titanium. I am having the axle nuts custom made in Ti right now so they match at 27mm. Cam- do youself a favor and buy a decent torque wrench and use it. You would be amazed at how good you will become at torqueing on your own after using it a while. :aj:
Overall I love this bike. For my type of riding (off-road/enduros/hare scrambles) it would only be better with e-start to negate any lame stall out I do in the tight stuff. :aj:
- Thread starter
- #47
Chase, any pics of your bike online? It sounds like you've got it tricked out nicely..
I've got a good $200 torque wrench I use on import parts like engine reassembly, my problem is usually plastic fasteners, like on the gas tank etc.
When you bought your Fastway Lowboy footpegs, were they specifically for a TM, or were they a match off of a different brand?
How about the top triple clamp?
I've got a good $200 torque wrench I use on import parts like engine reassembly, my problem is usually plastic fasteners, like on the gas tank etc.
When you bought your Fastway Lowboy footpegs, were they specifically for a TM, or were they a match off of a different brand?
How about the top triple clamp?
hey guys glad to hear the seat bolt malady is not just my bike....LOL
BTW my bike is not a 6 speed as I believe Cam mentioned for the enduro/mx differences....it's a 5 speed & I don't believe it to be wide ratio...
Cam it's hard to say from the pics but they look like they do indeed share the same frame & bodywork etc....the muffler is a Giannelli(sp?) & is a non spark arrester & looks like yours & yes the engine is also very similar looking...
takes a YZF oil filter & uses a KTM air filter...
yes the fasteners are high quality but the allen heads fill up with dirt...I'd prefer 10mm heads thruout where possible...
no problem with the brake resevoir bolts for me...
as I've said so far my engine & exhaust are very well mannered...no hiccups,pops or burps....did I mention how easy it is to start hot or cold? ;)
I've heard the 400 is much more difficult to fire & is more YZF like in that department....
Chasejj.....no doubt everytime you look or wrench on the TM you are reminded that you're riding a one off handbuilt work of art....as close to a works bike as you'll get!...
I'm very happy with my purchase & can see another TM in my future :)
Oh & FYI guys...the lower forkguards are the same as an '02 Honda CR if you want to get some custom fork decals for them....
BTW my bike is not a 6 speed as I believe Cam mentioned for the enduro/mx differences....it's a 5 speed & I don't believe it to be wide ratio...
Cam it's hard to say from the pics but they look like they do indeed share the same frame & bodywork etc....the muffler is a Giannelli(sp?) & is a non spark arrester & looks like yours & yes the engine is also very similar looking...
takes a YZF oil filter & uses a KTM air filter...
yes the fasteners are high quality but the allen heads fill up with dirt...I'd prefer 10mm heads thruout where possible...
no problem with the brake resevoir bolts for me...
as I've said so far my engine & exhaust are very well mannered...no hiccups,pops or burps....did I mention how easy it is to start hot or cold? ;)
I've heard the 400 is much more difficult to fire & is more YZF like in that department....
Chasejj.....no doubt everytime you look or wrench on the TM you are reminded that you're riding a one off handbuilt work of art....as close to a works bike as you'll get!...
I'm very happy with my purchase & can see another TM in my future :)
Oh & FYI guys...the lower forkguards are the same as an '02 Honda CR if you want to get some custom fork decals for them....
Last edited:
Fastway Pegs: Call Fastway directly. I think their website even lists the TM on its fitting list. Most pegs mount systems are similar so I bet they fit several different brands anyway. But the Fastway pegs mount easily. Tip: Try shimming the play out of the pivot with a steel washer. You end up with very nice and precise pivot with no slop at all. :)
The top clamp was made by Emig for the TM's exclusively. Paul Bloyer ordered several for his bikes and mine as well as Doug's TM400 in Colorado.
BTW: Racebolts has a nice low profile button headed screw(Ti) I used to mount the resevoir that really cut down on the boot interference issue. :cool:
No online pics yet. I'll work doing it soon. :aj:
The top clamp was made by Emig for the TM's exclusively. Paul Bloyer ordered several for his bikes and mine as well as Doug's TM400 in Colorado.
BTW: Racebolts has a nice low profile button headed screw(Ti) I used to mount the resevoir that really cut down on the boot interference issue. :cool:
No online pics yet. I'll work doing it soon. :aj:
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