To use it or not to use it

[bclark001]

I recently read a thread that said to use anti-seize and I myself use it quite a bit. Although I would like to get some other opinions about some of the most popular little helpers in a bottle or scams in a can. maybe some opinions on where to use loctite and where not to use (E.G. I will not use loctite on a steel bolt going into aluminum in fear of pulling the threads out during removal I would use anti-seize on that or will anti-seize cause the bolt to loosen easier during riding, or a rusty bolt I like to use P.B Blaster I've found this to be a very good penetrating oil)
I'd like to see what other people use around the world and there point of views as why not use it or why to use it

Thanks guys think this may be an interesting thread.

 

[Morvo]

I personally don't use anything when doing up bolts other than your run of the mill grease. If a bolt is hard to undo then I generally spray some wd-40 on the culprit and try to undo it, if it doesn't come then I use other methods. Anti-seize this and that doesn't appeal to me, I'd rather struggle :)

 

[Bunya]

I use anti-sieze on a lot of things, mainly any steel going into aluminum that's not torqued (anti-sieze throws off the readings ). The reason is because of galvanic corrosion. Anytime 2 dissimilar metals are in contact and an electrolyte is present, there will be an ion migration between the two which causes corrosion. Using anti-sieze will act as an insulator between the 2 metals and greatly reduce the effects. If any is present, it will make removal much easier. It seems as though the fasteners used on modern bikes are plated with something that reduces the effect as well. Back in the 70's, it seemed like every bike I worked on had a couple of screws that were corroded in place. I haven't run into many of them on newer bikes, but still apply anti-sieze to reduce galling of the threads. The presence of anti-sieze should not cause a fastener to loosen any faster than one without (assuming it's not frozen). Also, common anti-sieze does not work well in areas exposed to high heat such as exhaust manifolds. For those applications, use a lead based anti-sieze compound. You can still get it thru McMaster-Carr.

I don't use Loctite® unless it's specified by the manufacturer or have repeated problems with the fastener loosening. When removing something that has Loctite®, heating it up will soften it and make it easy to remove.

I agree with PB Blaster being one of the top penetrating oils. Kroil is probably a bit better, but not as common. Sorry fans, WD-40 is pretty far down on the list of penetrating oils (and at the bottom for rust protection).

Marc -

 

[bclark001]

great post bunya i agree on the WD-40 thing and I seem to see allot of people comment about using it. i have never had good experience with WD it seems to wash any grease away and is gone the second it gets wet i also use super series high adhesion penetrating oil my rubber seal I'm not sure how available it is as i get it from work but it gets sticky after a couple of seconds and stays where u put it

 

[SpeedyManiac]

WD40 has its place. WD stands for water dispersing. I use it on my chain after washing the bike to remove all the water.

 

[Bunya]

WD40 has its place. WD stands for water dispersing. I use it on my chain after washing the bike to remove all the water.

Yes, that's what it was originally formulated for and the one thing it is excellent at! I hear it also makes a very good lubricant for machining aluminum, although I stick with Realton A-9. It's ironic that the 2 primary reasons people buy it (lubrication & rust prevention) are 2 of the things it performs poorly at.

 

[Jaybird]

Using a thread coating of any sort, be it anti-seize, grease, or loc-tite, requires a reduction in the torque figure given. Most all torque figures will be for clean, dry bolts, unless the manual states the fastener must be lubricated before install.

And unless the coating company or the bolt mfg give you specific torque reduction numbers, you should assume to reduce the dry bolt torque factor by 30%.
The real reason a thread coating hoses up the torque factor is due to the fact that a coating will lessen the amount of friction, thus reducing the force needed to stretch the bolt to the required length.
Galvanic corrosion protection is a function of the coating material (incidental in many cases), and has little to do with the torquing of the fastener.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

The only application for anti seize that I use is for the spokes. Kroil is a very smelly but good penetrate. And the special coolants for machining aluminum does have resemblance to wd,nice Bunya! Where as the manual to specify what connector gets what is priceless! Being in plumbing(way better security than machine shops) I see a lot of froze connections! Die electric grease on electrical connections. It has been a while since I have heard the term galvanic,electrolysis between dis-similar metals has been a nightmare in plumbing. The crap out of asia has electrolysis between metals from different countries! Blue,red and green loctite,keep them handy and fresh! When is the last time anyone used #2 permatex?

 

[bclark001]

permatex #2 is good for bike because it designed to handle extreme vibrations and I believe has a pretty high heat rating correct?
correct me if I'm wrong

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

permatex #2 is good for bike because it designed to handle extreme vibrations and I believe has a pretty high heat rating correct?
correct me if I'm wrong

You are correct,but MESSY! I do believe I hugged the first set of cases that were machined and had no gasket! Unless it is a real leaker I avoid using #2,and it smells like it! True blue pipe sealant is the only other chemical I have encountered that stains and is as messy as #2!

 

[bclark001]

Unless it is a real leaker I avoid using #2,

Whats your recommendation for sealant for machined cases w/ no gaskets. just your basic high temp rtv? or is there a super secret goo?

 

[Bunya]

...True blue pipe sealant is the only other chemical I have encountered that stains and is as messy as #2!

Although not as messy, any of the high sulphur (dark) cutting fluids commonly used in threading seem to stain anything it touches. Back when I was using it frequently, I didn't have any clothes left that didn't have dark brown spots on them.

As far as #2, the worst part about it is cleaning it off the mating surfaces after it's been on for several years.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Bunya gave a very good overview of Never-Seize. I use it all of the time because I curse wildly when bolts or nuts are frozen. I've never experienced any problem associated with it's use. Hint: it should be used on spark plugs too.

 

[76GMC1500]

I use anti-seize on most of the bolts on the outside of the bike, especially anything that goes into aluminum. I don't torque any of those except the ones that hold the suspension together so I don't worry about the reduced torque values. The fork clamp pinch bolts are the only ones that really concern me because if you do overtighten it can distort the fork tube. Internal engine bolts don't have the same corrosion/seizing problems and are already covered in oil so I don't anti-seize them (they do get torqued, though). Anyways, I don't have problems with bolts backing out. Anti-seize is a wise investment considering the frustration and money a stuck bolt can cost.

Don't forget to take your chain tensioner bolts out periodically and cover them in anti-seize.

 

[stumanarama]

as far as penetrating oils go, liquid wrench has never failed me

 

[76GMC1500]

When my bolts get stuck, they really get stuck. Once the head breaks off, I usually just end up drilling them out and Helicoiling. I skip the Ez-Out step all together. The most effective method was the torch and beeswax (thinner oils boil off when you really get the heat going), but that's rarely practical.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Gm,left handed drill bits! Bcclark,honda bond,yama bond,real thin,grey and dries quick! I have not tried the silicone,white and runny. Used it on an airbox,worked pretty good,messy as hel and expensive!

 

[Bunya]

...I skip the Ez-Out step all together...

Wise words! 9 times out of 10, the Ex-Out snaps off and you've now compounded the problem. I might get $20 to remove a broken or stripped bolt/screw/stud whatever. Bring it to me with an Ez-Out broken off in a hole drilled off center and it's going to be at least $120! They have a purpose, but extracting a frozen bolt that you just twisted the head off of isn't one of them.

 

[bclark001]

OK good stuff guys how about coolant additives and oils. We are getting some good information here especially for the newbies.

OK so does coolant additives work?
can they lower operating temp?
whats your expierences with them?
whats your favorite transmission oil, why?
fork oil, weight/viscosity, cold weather vs hot?
and anything else you can think of

I want to have a good place to go for anyone w/ any oil questions i see allot of scattered threads w/ little info on what and why to use it. So far so good these are the replies I was looking for.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

The best gas,and the best oils,http://www.precisionautoresearch.com/page4.html, that was simple!

 

[CHR!S]

The best gas,and the best oils,http://www.precisionautoresearch.com/page4.html, that was simple!

That sounds dangerously close to spam...

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

How the heck is that? Its bp amoco and phillips 66. It would be cool to be sponsored by them. I dare anyone to provide better products!