Trail Manners?

[Russ]

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this. I've done all the basic mods to my 2001 KDX (rev pipe, silencer, guards, skid plate, reeds, etc.). I've had a few guys including my dealer over the last few months tell me that I have taken away all of the KDX's trail manners, mainly by adding the pipe. What do you think? I know the pipe makes the bike hit a bit harder and while the things are no 250 MX'ers, they're no dogs either. Does anyone feel that for slow trail riding and really sloppy conditions that the bike may be better off left stock? My problem is that I put all the junk on it only after having the bike for about a week, so I really don't know what it is like to run it stock. Just curious.

Russ

 

[70 marlin]

just added a bit of attitude!

Don't let them REV you up! ;¤ money well spent © maybe this winter a little carb & fredette majic? my 220 has all miss manner's but 250's don't walk away !

 

[fishhead]

Manners! What manners? We don't need no stinking manners! :p

If they want manners let them ride stock klx's:D They can have manners till it hurts.

 

[MADisher]

Well perhaps you should have ridden it stock just once :)
You won't be dissapointed, in fact you did all the right things.

-MD

 

[KLX4smoke]

If they want manners let them ride klx's

Doh! Hey smarty pants, pick on a non-green bike!:eek:

 

[Jim Crenca]

No way, these bikes stock are nice little unoffensive trail bikes. The mods make them legit dirt bikes (except that they handle OK but not great). Do the search under RB Designs for the carb mod; you won't be sorry, especially now that the mystery of jetting the thing is nearly solved :)

 

[canyncarvr]

I can't think of a situation where changing a whole bunch of stuff at once is a terrific idea...easy to have a problem with one change masked by or confused with another.

Part of the fun is riding the effect of the changes..having not ridden it stock, that wouldn't be known.

That notwithstanding, the changes you made are the basic starting points and would be a mistake in no one's book.

You didn't mention your airbox lid. If you haven't checked it out, take a look at CDave's site:

http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/

I don't see a mention of whether your bike is a 200 or 220. A rev pipe on a 200 is a considerably different beast than on a 220. My '00 with a rev is not too 'well mannered' a trails bike. It's suited then more for the dunes/wide(r) open spaces.

Enjoy your bike!!

 

[Russ]

Sorry...the bike is a 2001 KDX200 and yes, I did the airbox mod too. I couldn't agree with you more canyncarv that riding stock first is best. Anymore, with a family, I have very little time to test/ride, test/ride, so I just performed most of the mods on Dave's site and just got it over with. Maybe what it boils down to is that I've been a 4-stroker for so long that I just have grown accustom to that type of power...always an abundance of smooth, low-end power. It IS a sweet bike, especially for the money. Unfortunately, I may just unload it and go back to a bike with a cam or two. Sad because it has a street title, which in itself has become a bit of a hurdle just recently in Pennsylvania. Look for it on the F/S board. Thanks guys for all of your help.

Russ

 

[fishhead]

Just a thought

Before you dump it and move on pick up a CEL and CEK carb needle from carb parts or sudco and give it a try. Try the CEL in the middle clip to start

You might find the power delivery more to you liking. At 5.00 ea it won't break the bank.

 

[jimicarl]

rev vs torque pipes

not sure if this'll help..., but:

my 99 220 was purchased used with an FMF rev pipe & turbine core silencer. even set up like this, "ol' gouge" has a much stronger and more tractable low end that my long forgotten RMX. one of my riding buddies has his 200 set up with a torque pipe & same silencer. except for the ergo's you'd have trouble telling the bikes apart. engine power characteristics are almost identical. another buddy has retained the stock pipe on his 220, and added a turbine core silencer. it pulls like a tractor from idle (like a stocker), and rev's considerable more than stock.

don't know how hard i'd listen to anybody telling me i'd ruinied my bike by installing the wrong pipe/silencer/airbox/jetting/etc. mods. maybe you ruined it for them..., but they're not riding it, eh? make the changes & have fun experimenting. you might find (like one DRN contributer) that you'll have one setup for one purpose, and setup differently for another purpose. hell..., it's easier to change pipes/silencers than it is to change a tire!!

if you don't have "gouges", you're not trying hard enough!

 

[canyncarvr]

If bottom end is what you're after..the rev on a 200 won't come close to a torque. I have both pipes..switch 'em and completely different jet sets to match depending on what sort of riding I wanna do and where I'm doing it.

Point is not to get into yet another rev /torque debate. That's why I bought one of each for starters..just to make up my own mind. Nothing I did with the rev setup wise ever got it to the grunt the torque does.

...and the rev is so darn big! Hangs out there just begging to be smushed!

Did someone tell you you ruined your bike making the changes? Baloney sausage!

BTW..my riding buddy has a '00 also. He doesn't have much trouble keeping up with any 4stroker you want..650s and under. If you are thinking of selling it cuz it's the 'little bike that couldn't'...give it a chance. You'll be surprised.

But then, if I rode 1/2 as good as he does, I'd be 10 times better'n I am now!

 

[Russ]

Well...What about the stock pipe? Do you think IT would actually have MORE bottom end then the FMF Rev? I know it's definately a good bit heavier!

There must be something to that CEL needle. The guy at Sudco says they sell like hot cakes. He can't keep them in. Says that he has 100 of them on back order and doesn't expect them until at least the end of the month. I'll try Carb Parts Warehouse next. I wonder if it's the hot set-up for KTM's because the guy asked me if that's what I had.

 

[Michelle]

The stock pipe is a great ashtray/anchor/whatever, but horrible on
the bike.
I had someone ride my bike today and he commented it
couldn't be more different from his if he tried - he's running a PC
pipe/muffler, stiffer suspension, rad valve - I'm running an FMF
torque pipe/muffler (too lazy to change back to the PC, and just
having fun trying everything out again). He commented how it had
heaps more bottom end than his bike, so maybe you should check it out
before giving up on her. (I think his bike is an 00, mine's a 99 - he
just wanted to see how the steering damper worked) - I was just
amazed listening to the two bikes sound so different. (my husband was riding his, not me).

 

[Russ]

Thanks Michelle, but I've already had both the rev and the torque pipe on the bike. I went back to the rev because I really didn't think the torque pipe had that much more low end over the rev, plus it gave up a lot more top end. After riding my brother's 200EXC, I'm not sure the KDX will ever achieve that kind of bottom end. Once again, my last two bikes have been an XR400 and an ATK605 so I'm use to a lot of low end. It would be great to find someone willing to trade for an XR250 or ATK605...Heck, I practically GAVE my 605 away...dumb move.

Russ

 

[fishhead]

Thats right! KDX's are slow and heavy and not fast at all! It's an old man/girls bike. Just ask my riding buddy on his 200mxc when he catches up here. He's always telling me what a better bike he has. I am so happy my KDX doesn't have the bottom end his ktm has.:p

I sure hope I can get a pumpkin next year.;)

Seriously Russ, it sounds like you are ready for the RB mod, Check the reeds and put a 13/50 sprocket combo if you haven't already. my 220 spanks my buddy's 200mxc in a 200 yd drag race every time. And my 15 yr old daugher at 5'4"' can putt around on it.But it won't ever have 520 exc bottom end.

 

[Russ]

Well, I've ridden the 200EXC and the KDX200 back to back and the Katoom can pull practically any gear from engine speeds at practically idle. Is THIS what the RB mod will accomplish? I don't want to win drag races. I want to chug through the woods in 3rd without having to downshift every time a come to a hill. I've spoken to the guy at RB before and came close several times to having the mod done, but it just seems to create a jetting nightmare. Am I correct in assuming that the mod is irreversible? Fishhead, are you running the RB mod or did you go with the CEL needle. I usually go by the "no replacement for displacement" rule, but if any of these mods will give a great improvement in low end power than bring it on I say!

Thanks all!
Russ

 

[BRush]

Originally posted by Russ
I don't want to win drag races. I want to chug through the woods in 3rd without having to downshift every time a come to a hill.
Thanks all!
Russ

Russ, I've specialized in turning my bike into a woods tractor, so if that's what you want consider some of these changes:

Phase 1
- Get rid of the Rev pipe. Sell it on ebay, they always go fast there, and for a good price because there are always people who want them.
- Use the cash to buy the FMF torque pipe (and silencer/spark arrestor).
- Toss the 47 tooth rear and get a 50 tooth. This will let you use 2nd gear on most tight trails with 1st reserved for when things really get ugly. You'll need a 110 link chain for this (stock is 108), a low-budget alternative approach would be to go with a 12 tooth countershaft sprocket.
- Install Boyesen power reeds (helps low end throttle response).
- Sort out the jetting. Stock is way too rich in most applications. See CDave's JustKDX website for some recommendations on starting points.

Phase 2
RB Carb Mod. This mod was invented for those of us who regard low end power as important. You have to rejet and pay attention to needle selection, but most of that has been sorted out in some great posts here in this forum. It's not that big of a deal.

Phase 3
Eric Gorr big bore kit & porting. (225cc). Zowie, does this ever help. KTM 200 owners will be coming over to your bike to see why you are able to ride to the top of that slimy off camber hill, with the 90 deg turn just at the base, while they had to struggle and push....
:p

 

[WoodsRider]

Originally posted by BRush
I've specialized in turning my bike into a woods tractor, so if that's what you want consider some of these changes...

That's funny! You don't mention anything about that +60 guy riding a STOCK '95 KDX, that's held together by duct tape, who leads you around on all those nasty trails. :p

 

[canyncarvr]

curious...

Who are these 'Lifetime Support Team Members' that don't ride KDXs that seem to have an awful lot to say about them?

Where did they all-of-a-sudden come from after the last site redeaux?

I've talked with some of them that know a heckuva lot less about them than I do..and I've only had mine for a couple years. I'm not saying I'm brilliant..I'm saying they are LESS 'brilliant' than I! (That's a sad thing!) :(

I've read most of what BRush has ever posted. I highly regard what he has to say. He RIDES a kdx!!

BTW..you win drag races with power (among a bunch of other things...like..say SKILL). Where you decide to focus that power depends on how you setup your bike. Point is the KDX can do it! Whether you make it to the top or not is largely up to YOU.

 

[MADisher]

Where did we come from ?
We looked around thought this is a great place. The folks running this site are working thier arses off. They don't shove advertisements in my face, they don't pop-up extra windows or ads for x10.com. They monitor the content and take out a large portion of the crap. We know they don't force memberships, so how are they subsidising it ? Who's paying for it ? I know what it costs to keep something like this up and alive.

So we click on the membership button and shoot them some cash so this place stays around :D

I can say I have gotten more than my $109.00 dollars worth from folks like yourself, always willing to help and offer up good sound advice. You probably saved me $50.00 walking me through changing my fork springs. (or maybe it wasn't you).

:)

 

[WoodsRider]

It appears that I have offended the KDX gods somehow. :think

 

[canyncarvr]

no offense at all need be taken

It was just a question. :D

MADisher answered it (if I understand correctly).

Heck..for all I know, that 60+ '95 KDX rider is WoodsRider's dad or something.

Yeah..it is funny how skill and poise will outdo power and $$ (most)every single time.

My riding buddy is one of those. He is poetry on a bike. Smooth..effortless. Yeah..he's been riding since he was born, and that's the point! It's NOT all about power and whether or not you're on the wait list for the new 450 (is that right? 4__something, anyway) honda for only $7500 or so. Sheesh..what's it weigh? Something less than 200#??

Skill and talent will get you MUCH farther than the latest newfangled modification. Ha...I'M the poster boy for THAT idea!!..the second part.

I just wondered where all the new icons came from. I'm sure there is something I should have read somewhere's that would've enlightened me.

........
Just went looking for it. Found it. S'cuse me whilst I clean the egg off my face.:eek:
.......

Good advice is priceless..although like SOME body parts, EVERYbody has an opinion (me included!). Nothing I like more than learning something...but helping someone else out who is interested in learning something that I know (not what I THINK I know) runs a close second!!

cheers!

 

[BRush]

canyncarvr, pay no attention to Woodsrider. He means well, but his ego was bruised yesterday when he was spanked on certain hillclimb by a couple of guys on KDX's :p . Woods, did you have a pang of regret about selling your KDX when you were looking up at us? :)

ps. He's right about that 60+ guy. He can ride me into the ground.

 

[Russ]

BRush,
Just my opinion, but I'm not sure I agree with all three "phases." I've had BOTH pipes (as I said earlier) and thought the torque pipe offered little to no improvement over the stocker. I bought it from Fredette and when I told him this he agreed and said that the REV will give you just as much bottom PLUS some more on top, so I went back to the REV pipe.

As for the gearing, I am running one less tooth up front, but IMO, that does not actually give the bike more low end, it just brings the gearing down so the higher gears aren't so high anymore.

Then there's the bore job...well of course that would help!!!! It's a no-brainer. Called Fredette to see how much it would cost and you might as well buy another bike!

Which just keeps bringin' me back to the RB mod...there, I think you may have something.

I'm not looking to spend a couple hundred on a mod that I have to second guess about whether I gained anything from it. We've all been there! Case in hand, the torque pipe! Sounds like the RB mod might be a great "seat of the pants" mod. What scares me is guys who say that the torque pipe offered a large gain in bottom end and then say that the RB mod does too. If the RB mod can only do as well as the torque pipe, then I don't want it either.

For some strange reason, it seems as though people think I want to go fast. Sometimes it takes more power to go slow...hard to lug a YZ80?

Well...no offense to anyone...thanks as always...time to blast me now.

 

[BRush]

Originally posted by Russ
BRush,
Just my opinion, but I'm not sure I agree with all three "phases."

That's ok. You don't have to agree with me :) .

Well all three phases are something I have direct experience with because they're all on my bike. Big bore kit? I don't know what Fredette charges for a big bore kit, but from Eric Gorr it was less than $400 and that included porting and cleaning the powervalves. Not small change, but hardly in the "you might as well buy another bike!" category. My experience with the RB mod is that it does not "increase" power or torque. What is does do is clean up low end throttle response so that there is zero off-idle blubber, and the progression of power is linear and electric without glitches or big hits. I can't tell you that *you* would be happy with it, only that *I* am happy with it and count it as money well spent. As for the pipe debate, go back an re-read canyncarvr's post - someone who has a rev & torque pipe and has switched them back and forth enough to get a sense of what they can do for the powerband. My hunch is that you have never experienced a well setup KDX, because with the right mods it is absolutely possible to get the KDX to equal and/or exceed the bottom end grunt of your brother's EXC 200 (let's not get into another KDX vs KTM debate, the KTM's suspension and chassis are way better).

So Russ, you seem to have made up you mind. Based on my own personal experience, I think you are wrong on several counts, but if you've managed to convince yourself that you'd be happier on another bike then it's time to sell the KDX and move on. Don't worry about hurting my feelings. Buy something you can feel happy about and ride.
:cool: