weight the outside peg?

stormer94

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#16
Will,

I thought we were supposed to keep the weight centered on the seat? So sliding the butt crack over onto the edge is the ticket 'eh? I had been thinking the more inline with the bike your body was, the more it drove the tire square into the ground.
 

yzguy15

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#17
Well the idea is to keep perpendicular to the ground. So, if you're leaning the bike underneath you, which I think was mentioned as the way to go, you're butt crack will be on the edge of the seat. Always try to lean the bike underneath you if possible, because if you lean with it, the more of a chance you have to wash out.

Kinda like if you were going to do a donut. You wouldn't lean into the inside of the donut, you'd keep your weight on the outside so you don't fall.
 
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BillyWho

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#18
RMG explained it very well .
The only difference of opinion I have is I think it is inertia of the combined weight of the rider/bike and the CG, not so much centrifugal force.
The way I understand centrifugal is it has an "attached" center point of rotation that is fixed. Inertia of weight has no "guide" to where it goes other than it wants to keep going in the same direction it is already traveling.
When you are coming into a corner all the "mass" is headed in one direction, then you steer/lean the bike to turn , and what makes you turn is the bite the tires have on the ground verses or overcoming the inertia of the weight wanting to continue straight.

RMG explained perfectly about how shifting the CG to as low and in line with the center line of the contact point of the tires as possible is key, and the only thing to add to help understand better is when you have all your weight on the seat and the bike is leaned over, the angle from your butt (your CG) to the centerline of the tires, let's say 15 degrees, is the angle that the weight of your body is pushing on the tires, which means your helping keep an outward (straight) force on the inertia of you and the bike. When you weight the outside peg, you are putting all the force directly straight down on the center of contact ( at least as close as your going to get) of the tires which gives you as much "down force" as possible to get more traction to over come the "mass" wanting to continue straight.

Kind of the same theory as Indy cars. They try and create as much straight down force as possible to keep the tires glued to the track, other wise as you know when they loose traction going into a corner at 200mph that incredible amount of inertia continues straight till they hit the wall:( !

Everything evolves around gaining traction with the contact of ground/tires to get the bike to go where YOU want it to go. Just my 2 cents:)

If there is a berm or rut, it's not near as important , but it still keeps the bike more stable and controllable.

stormer, the reason it feels more controllable is the increased traction your getting gives you more "control" on what happens with the rear wheel , verses a little "pebble" starting the loss of traction untill your face down in the dirt.
 
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will pattison

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#19
Originally posted by stormer94
Will,

I thought we were supposed to keep the weight centered on the seat? So sliding the butt crack over onto the edge is the ticket 'eh? I had been thinking the more inline with the bike your body was, the more it drove the tire square into the ground.
moving over to the edge of the seat makes it easier for you to get a mechanical advantage on the outside peg. it also helps shift some of the inertia of your body's mass out of a vector that would increase the bike's tendecy to slide out. as **** burleson says, a "quiet upper body" will help you through the turn faster. further, that body position is also a natural result of countersteering, which you should also be doing, but that's another conversation...

wp.
 

ET

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#20
I have wondered about this too, and have read the explanations in various publications, and most of them didn't seem to explain it correctly.
In a turn, it doesn't matter if your weight is on the inside or outside footpeg, the combination of centrifugal force and gravity will go through the tire contact patches, or the bike will fall over, either high side or low side.
The only difference weighting the outside footpeg can make, is to cause the bike to become more vertical. This apparently allows the tire to get more sideways traction, enabling the bike to pull more G's without sliding out.
I have never read any scientific explanations for tire traction in dirt, and I doubt that there are more than a handfull of tire engineers in this country who do know anything about it.
If there are any reading this thread, please enlighten us.
 
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#21
ET,
Weighting the outside peg will actually force the bike to lean more, that is if you want to stay balanced... when all else fails, draw a free body diagram. Or, get on your bike and experiment with the extreme cases.
 
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#22
How about standing?

Weighting the outside peg while sitting through a turn seems to make sense and feel right. But, while standing through a turn it feels unstable to me. Does it only apply to turning while sitting? Or maybe I don't have the right technique.
 
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#23
Could Will Pattison, elaborate a bit more on what Burleson meant when he made reference to "quiet upper body" as being the key to taking corners with greater speed?
 

will pattison

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#24
my interpretation, based on his comments and demonstrations, was that the majority of the action required to make a good turn takes place from the waist down. the knees, the legs, and the hips all get moved or adjusted in some way, but the upper body doesn't do much other than maintain an orientation. an example is keeping the upper body mostly vertical when negotiating a flat corner.

wp.
 

bud

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#25
ET, weighting the outside peg does give more traction - allows more of a lean without sliding sideways. Explanations of physics aside, doesn't your personal experience back this up?
 

wardy

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#26
I would aggree to a point

upper body plays a major role in wieght distribution, example. sit way back on the seat and try to turn a hard pack corner.....the front end will wash. Many think to do this or that will make one a good cornering rider. But everything about riding comes down to how good you corner. Kinda my opinion here.
I would suggest for guys riding rough and whooped tracks to weight the outside peg while standing but also keep your upper body neutral so that you can use it as a counter lever when you need it to control your turn.
to far one way or another will make your cornering less then stellar.

as always remain relaxed and loose so that your body can absorb the little adjustments that the bike will make as you go through the turn.
 
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#27
In regard to Pattison's account on Burleson's explanation, this seems consistent with the information provided in his riding tapes. However, he (Burleson) also advocates that the rider, in negotiating a turn, twist thier upper body slightly in the direction they want to go. More specifically, bring their opposite shoulder forward in the intended direction. I could never understand the reasoning behind this as it seems to violate the principles of most all other instructors of his ridng calibre, DeStefano, Semics, et al.

Bill
 
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#28
The newest issue of Dirt Rider features an article on riding/racing techniques. A bit of irony was that the article made reference to some theories postulated by King Richard Burleson; its not often that Burleson is quoted. In essence, Burleson advocates that the rider while standing, should try "getting small". In other words, assume more of a wrestlers stance in order to compact your weight over the bike. This is a ploy that Scott Summers uses as well. I tried it breifly, and it seems to offer me a bit more control of the bike. Just a thought.

Bill