XR400 vs. KDX220 or KTM200EX/C

[Enduro_Nut]

Go for the KTM - if by the time you "updated" the KDX or for that matter any of the above mentioned bikes you would be at KTM prices. The KTM is a superior machine in virtually all aspects and is very reliable.
I do have to admit though - I've owned 3 KDX's and they wear like Levi's - forever. But as I said previously the KDX can never be made into a KTM - the cost would be overwhelming. The weight is also an issue - of all the bikes the KTM will weigh less and resale is very good also.

Go for it!

 

[Patman]

Originally posted by nectar
Yeah....get the ktm, but don't worry about parts, cause you'll never need to replace a thing on them....and don't worry about the rear shock, its just as good as a linkage sytem that every other bike mfg. uses....plus its orange?

I'll buy ya' a clue here nectar. Follow all of redskinz posts in this thread and you'll see something. Just getting back in to riding dirt and not much interest in moding a bike. If he really wanted a bombproof bike he'd go with one of the XR's but they require a few mods to be just right. Well as much as you might not want to realize it the KDX is in the same time warp boat. Given the information redskinz provided the KTM is a significantly better choice of the two options he's now looking at based upon what he has indicated are his desires. Is it perfect no, but compared to the KDX it's a lot closer to the target.

As far as the hard seat. Bike shorts and standing more (better form anyway) seem to be the best plan. I've heard of folks using a large drill bit to swiss cheese the bottom of the foam but I'd wait untin it's got some time on it first.

 

[CPT Jack]

For the riding you've described. i'd go as light as possible. I'm glad you're looking at 2strokes. Wrestling an XR4 will wear you out fast.

You're looking at the right bikes now, but also consider the GasGas - easy to ride like a KDX, turns awesome. It's got a powerband more suitable for your type of riding - more luggable w/ less hit than the KTM but comes outfitted similarly (w/ very high quality components). If $ is a big issue you should be looking for a good used bike. Look around & save $1000 on a 1 yr old bike!

 

[gn83tm]

My recommendation would be for the KDX athough I have a lot of respect for the pumpkin and the GG and would like to try one of them sometime. One of the big reasons I would shy away from the KTM is because you said that the dealer is an hour away and this would be a pain if you needed a minor part or some service.

The KDX, while not high-tech is very capable and parts and information for it are very available and reasonably priced. Just take a look at ebay and you'll find all kinds of stuff. I'd also consider buying a good used machine and spending the savings on upgrades you think you need.

I bought a new KDX in 1990 and raced it successfully for a few years in stock trim. It sat without much use for a few years while I raced stock cars but now I'm getting back into the two wheeled stuff. I considered getting a new bike but decided to rebuild and modify the KDX to ride trails and do a few races again. Some would consider me to be nuts, but I spent about $1500 on the old bike and I feel that I've ended up with something that is competitive with any of the newer stuff. Fredette did the motor and suspension mods and I replaced all the plastic and other worn items and added a pipe/silencer. So far I am very satisfied and have never regretted owning the bike - especially for how much I have in it.

Good luck with your choice!

 

[motometal]

the advantages to owning bikes with "tried and true" designs, especially from one of the big four:
the bike tends to be cheaper
the design is proven
parts tend to be cheaper and more readilly available

dealer support also makes a big difference.

 

[woods_rider1]

I agree with, and respect alot of the opinions expressed here. Having owned a KDX and now a KTM, I will give you my $.02... The KDX is a fine trail bike, and it will inded take you anywhere and run forever, dont let anyone tell you different. It does need heavier springs and a few minor mods (pipe/airbox)
But if you arent racing or even riding very aggressively, it is a kick in the pants, and perfect for tight woods. The KTM on the other hand, while another very fine machine, is suited for the more aggressive riders, it feels like it wants to be ridden fast and hard. I ride with my family alot, and at times Im plugging along in 2nd gear on the trails while the family catches up. When I ride with the guys, the KTM truly shines, it takes everything I can throw at it and begs for more, again, the harder I ride it, the better it responds. You need to decide if you want trail riding, or aggressive woods riding/racing. You can get a nicely set up KDX CHEAP in the papers. While I love my KTM to death, I wouldnt mind having a KDX again also... for 5% of the time...

 

[redskinz]

Thank you for all of your replies, I think. I feel like I'm starting all over again. What to do? What to do?

I feel like the KTM wil be the best fit for me while riding with my friends (besides always wanting one), but feel like the KDX will be better when riding alone. I can pull out of the garage right into about 100 acres of woods, and until the weekends, there is usually nobody else here.
I also considered the GG, but compared to the 1 hour drive to the KTM dealer, the 3 hour drive to Hattiesburg, MS. is a little more than I want to go for the closest GG dealer. Especially for parts.
I know all of the bikes that I have considered are all great bikes for what they are designed for. And I really can't go wrong with whichever I get. The 1 friend who has the KDX200 (which has all the mods. I'll need) said to get the 2002 KTM and if I didn't like it, he would buy it or trade me for his 2003 KDX (with all mods.). Not too bad of a situation considering he has only about 50 hours on it. He would have gotten the KTM if he knew that there was a KTM dealer that close, and knew that they still had some '02's that they want to move out.

So, I think the KTM is the way to go. From everything you all said, I wont go wrong.

Thanks you guys. You have really helped me, and I am really glad I found this site. After I get it I'll let you all know how I like it.

 

[beer_stud_76]

just a few things:

1) can we put the "KTM parts are expensive and hard to find" canard to bed? it simply isn't true.

2) the bikes made by the "big four" are no more "proven" than KTM's

3) only the EXC/MXC's are more expensive than Japanese bikes, which is irrelivant because the "big four" have abosolutely nothing in their line-ups than compares to the EXC/MXC (with the possible exception of the WR's, which are quite expensive).

and. . .there is exactly 1 japanese company that makes a race-ready off-road bike (yamaha). and none of them make a race ready 2 stroke - the KDX is the closest thing.

the sticker price on the SX is close to anything with a CR/KX/YZ or RM on it.


i know this doesn't get redskinz any closer to his decision, but i'm sick of uncritical KTM generalizations.


jeremiah

 

[motometal]

uncritical generalizations? uhhh, ok. I thought I was pretty polite.

1. Dealers/availability-it's pretty safe to say there are more Kawasaki dealers in the US than KTM dealers. Yes, there's mail order, but it's just not the same as good dealer support. If you have a good local KTM dealer, more power to ya.

2. Reliability: I would be interested in seeing a comparison of the engineering and quality control budgets of the big four plus KTM. Maybe I would be surprised. Also, for reliablity a bike that hasn't changed for years like the KDX will statistically be more reliable than a bike that is "all new this year" regardless of who made it.

3. Cost: have you priced a new (or used for that matter) KDX lately? I haven't seen too many new KTMs under four grand.

I am really an unbiased opinion because the KDX doesn't really fit my needs, and I don't have anything personal against KTMs. I've owned one, and so have several of my riding buddies. Notice I made no specific mention of weird or repeated breakdowns. I'm sure every brand has it's glitches now and then.

Redskinz, sounds like you have yourself a win-win situation! Getting a new bike, and having the ability to test ride your friend's KDX and compare any time you want, and possibly trade if you wish. You can't go wrong! :aj:

 

[beer_stud_76]

motometal -

i too thought i was being polite; yet somehow, the uncritical generalizations roll.

1) the KDX is not a race-ready, high performance off-road bike, that is why it is several grand cheaper than a KTM. they are not equivalent machines. having said that, KDXs kick ass (i reccomended a KDX for redskinz in my first post, and i stand by that reccomendation). when you compare apples to apples SX vs KX or RM or YZ or CR, the prices are very competitive. its just that there is no MXC/EXC equivalent in any japanese line up.

2) i too would like to see a ". . .comparison of the engineering and quality control budgets of the big four plus KTM." i have no doubt that you would be astounded. as for KDX reliability, i cannot argue that. but that's not what we're talking about. KTMs are as reliable as anything else on the trails, save XRs and KDXs, though i'd put LC4 reliability up against KDX reliability any day. however, now that you've mentioned it, a given bikes production run is no indication of reliability. afterall, i never saw a bunch of broke-down '95 KDXs, and they haven't gotten a lot (if any) more reliable since '95. right?

3) the availability of dealers is categorical: either there is one or there isn't one close by. for example, untill recently the closest YAM dealer to me was an hour away. there is no gradation. if a KTM dealer is reliatively close, than you can go there and get any part you need and it will cost you very near what a japanese part would cost. if there isn't, there isn't, just like a Japanese brand.

4) i'm not trying to say outright or imply that KTMs are inherently superior to japanese brands. i'm trying to dispell the common, and yes uncritical, generalizations that many people have about KTMs. most of which (generalizations i mean) were picked up when KTM was penton.

5) repeat, i love the KDX. if Kawasaki made a big-bore version i'd probably own one. however, no one's sense of brand loyalty ought to lead them to believe that a KDX is match for a MXC/EXC 200/250.

6) repeat, i love the KDX. it fills an important and neglected niche, a niche filled by no other model by any other company.


jeremiah

 

[motometal]

1. I believe if you read the original post he specifically mentioned he WASN'T going to race, therefore doesn't need a race-ready bike.

2. Statically, one would think a bike with nothing but BNG for several years would tend to have the bugs worked out of it, as opposed to a bike with major changes from year to year. However, pick a brand and there is probably an annoying trait that just won't go away--hard seat foam for example.

3, 4, 5, 6 I agree, point taken.

And yes, i'm still angry about the $360 clutch kit for my 1984 KTM 495 (I only paid $800 for the whole bike!). I realize times have changed.

 

[Asrith]

My opinion is to get the ktm 200 exc. I see the XR good, but the kdx also an option. I have had lots of bikes, and well, looking at the fact that you are going to buy something and stick with it the KTM in my honest opinion is the best choice. Must say all the bikes are better than several years ago. I tried several and for me was a bike that handled over whoops the best. Good luck to you, give a 2 stroke a chance. Give 2 stroke a chance! LOL...

 

[trailrider1]

Funny posting - I started out on a XR400 moved to a '02 250EXC.  My friends have a KDX220 and a KTM 200EXC which they'd been kind enough to let me ride. 

The KDX and the 200EXC are actually quite different bikes.   The KDX has a linear power band (smooth, easy to control acceleration) and more torquey low-end focus that is similar to a 4-stroke.  It would favor a more casual riding style and do well in nasty conditions (rocky, muddy hill climbs, etc.). 

The KTM (edited from KDX - oops!) is a hyperactive bike that really favors an aggressive rider.  It's power hits fast, and can easy lift the front wheel in several gears with just twisting the grip.  Coming off the XR400, I had to fight to keep the front wheel down in 3 gears on the little KTM. :laugh:   What a rush...

The 250EXC is kind of a cross between the KDX & 200EXC in it's riding style.  It's not as hyperactive or demanding as the 200EXC but it's more racy than the KDX in it's handling.  It actually feels like it has similar torque to the KDX, but it's harder to apply it in nasty conditions.  The KDX & 200EXC would have an edge in handling in the tight woods, but the 250 would smoke either in more open terrain. 

After everything is said & done, they're fun bikes that you would enjoy.  The key thing is to make your choice & get out & start riding!  You can't go wrong with any of them.

Best of luck,

Scott

 

 

[scott brown]

redskinz, i have owned a 94kdx, 01wr250f, 99ktm200exc, 02 300 ktmexc, and presently an 03 ktm250rfs. my son has an 03 honda crf230. you mentioned that you are short and getting back into riding and like 4-strokes. have you considered the crf 230? you can get your feet on the ground and it has smooth torguey power, you can get them for around 3100$. you can always up grade in a year if you out grow the bike. also consider the ktm 250 rfs. it is not as tall as the yamaha and delievers very smooth power. the engine likes to be reved but is very easy to control. this is the best handling bike i have owened, it feels much lighter than it is , cuts great in the tight stuff. my point is that this is a very easy to ride fast bike. you can usually get a good buy on these as most people get the 450 or 525. these bikes have to be properly jetted as they come from the factory to lean. as for the kdx or ktm 200 i think you need to deciede what kind of riding you will be doing and what you are looking for in a bike. such as , do you want a very quick and responsive bike or something that is smoother. if you just trail ride then either bike will work. if you are planning on doing some races in the future then the ktm would be a better choice as it lighter and more powerful with a much better suspension. i think you said you are in miss. which is fairly flat, i would definitly get the ktm. you must deciede what is right for you. take a serious look at the two 4-strkes that i mentioned. scott.

 

[redskinz]

scott brown-

Yes, I considered the CRF230. It was the first bike I considered. The fact is I'm just getting back into owning a bike, not nessessarily just getting back into riding. I ride my friends KDX's, TTR's, DRZ's, and one ATK 250. Fact is, I even rode a 2003 XR250 and that is what really changed my mind on the 230. I'm sure the 230 is a great bike, but I didn't think it was enough for my 180+ butt. Even after reading reviews on it, it changed my mind for a person my weight.
After spending three days (on a post I mentioned earlier) on a KDX, I have changed minds again. Before I spent serious time on one, I would have agreed with you, but I really gotten used to it. I obviously don't ride it as fast as he does (or anyone else for that matter), but even he was suprised at how much faster I was getting on it as time went by. I really became to like the power it had, and believe I'd have been glad to have an XR, but later would want more.

Anyways, its a mute point. I'm picking up the KTM tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for the input. Keep ripping it up out there. I'll come back in a few days and let you know how its going. Wish me luck.

 

[maco]

Red-Been reading through the posts-Your tight riding area sounds similar to where I ride,Hawaii.Here it's very tight,mud,and constant up and down,like a snake,no snakes in Hawaii.Most riders here ride 2 stroke 250s set for trails.Guess cause I'm old,54,and started riding at 51 I'll never have the juice to go 2 stroke.I started on a 87 XR 200 and fell in love with trail riding.The high center of gravity and weak forks,plus inexperience,forced me to buy a newer 200 with the lower suspension.Well the lower center of gravity helped on tight hills,but the forks,still damening rods,were just as weak.I put emulators in and progressive springs and that changed everything.No more sharp hit on roots or small logs or washing out on down hill turns.
Why am I telling you all this?You said the CRF 230 wouldnt work for your weight.I think it would.I weigh 185 and ride the 200,with suspension mods.IF your going to just ride trails,especially tight trails,the lower seat height on the 230 might be the way to go.You will need to go emulators from Race Tech,don't know if there availble for that model yet,but there might be another way.Here's the other thing.In tight trails it's really about suspension,to me,unless your racing.Here It's mostly 1st 2nd and third.If that's what your dealing with and not that many logs you might think Honda.I nver rode the 230 but I know the XR seat is gone.My wife rides the 150 and it's not as good,not as cushy.To bad the 230 is electric start.Well I know your a good rider and might need to go KDX or KTM for the fun factor but I think the 230 could handle your weight.

 

[truespode]

Why don't you answer his question in the thread it was asked instead of starting a new one.

Thanks
Ivan