Any articles on the 05 CR models?

[steve125]

what a load of crap....can you say swedetech....they tune moto cr 125 engines that are pushing 45+hp everyday....the sgm 125 and pavesi's are 40+ hp out of the box.....there is alot of potential there....I'm told the fuel is worth 2.+ hp at least.....and the vp stuff bubba uses @ $34.00 a gallon is even better than the mr2 / mrx01 that the public gets....do they need rebuilt bottom ends every 8 hours - yes....but they are verrrry tunable, prog ignitions, ect...talk to the guys at jm racing and you will see the results of real cr-125 development...

Don't forget the I-Cat!!! now that CR125 is pushing an easy 46, can U imagine if they threw a Power Now in the mix??? can you say Holy Moly???? :yikes:






:coocoo:

 

[bedell99]

Ok i have been reading this post for 2 days now and I'll chime in. I totally understand what Pace is saying about how making runs on a dyno really don't mean squat due to different atmospheric conditions. I know most dyno's have correction factors, but to me if you want to compare apples to apples I think the run should be on the same dyno, same day. As for that graph Marcus put up on Bolleys bike. Oh my god that thing is horrible. There had to be a problem with the powervalve opening late, which is maybe why they dyno'd it. I really can imagine having a bike perform so bad at that level. As for Bubba fuel being better than MR2 or U2. No way. It might be almost equal, but due to the unleaded factor. I gurantee if Kawasaki could still use MR2 in there bikes they would. As for a 40HP 125. maybe in a shiftercart and 9 million rpm with no bottom to speak of. Remember guys a powerband is more important than peak HP for MX.

Erik

 

[James980]

Don't forget the I-Cat!!! now that CR125 is pushing an easy 46, can U imagine if they threw a Power Now in the mix??? can you say Holy Moly???? :yikes:

Don't forget the reeds! 50 at least! ;) Splitfire spark plug...52! Drill some holes in the air box...53.5! "race jets"...55! engine ice so it runs cooler...56.25! powervalve cover spacer...57.5!! And...the ultimate hop-up...an old ROOST BOOST from the 1980s...do I hear 60???!!! ;)

 

[fastwes]

HP fun time

Lets just have more fun and let the topic go all over the place.Many moto based kart engines have 43 or more hp depending upon use and reliability issues. How often can the piston, ring, cranks, etc. be replaced? How fast do you want to go? Most racers could afford to replace the top end parts on a two stroke every race if they really had to. What can the factory teams afford?
My old friend Bruce Mcquisten (ex Skip Barber instructor)at Racers Country Club in Miami FL told me an interesting story. His company is a racing school that rents their own karts, stores and preps customer karts and can do complete corporate packages for all those people who don't do golf when they are in Florida. (NO I DON'T HAVE ANY SHARE IN THE COMPANY !) He has driven all kinds of cars and shifter karts with all kinds of engines, from all the engine builders in the US. He understands acceleration and lap times, to say the least. Someone put together a kart for James Bubba Stewart with one of his factory Kawasaki 125 engines. Bruce drove it and said it was the "fastest, smoothest pulling engine he had ever driven, with way more top AND bottom power than others" if I can properly remember his quote. He thought it was way over 45 hp compared to modified PEAKY engines. Bubba was giving up nothing to the 4 strokes on a bike that was easier to throw around. Don't you think ALL the factories can make pretty usable power and lots of it, at least if they aren't stuck with poor designs? They also can change pistons or for that matter complete cylinders between motos if necessary.
Smile all,
Wes Gilbert
Boyesen Precision Porting

 

[Sayntmatt]

Nick Wey seems to be doing ok on his privateer CR250!!

Has anyone actually seen any other reviews on the CR125 apart from the TWMX one?

 

[marcusgunby]

what a load of crap....can you say swedetech....they tune moto cr 125 engines that are pushing 45+hp everyday....the sgm 125 and pavesi's are 40+ hp out of the box.....there is alot of potential there....I'm told the fuel is worth 2.+ hp at least.....and the vp stuff bubba uses [at] $34.00 a gallon is even better than the mr2 / mrx01 that the public gets....do they need rebuilt bottom ends every 8 hours - yes....but they are verrrry tunable, prog ignitions, ect...talk to the guys at jm racing and you will see the results of real cr-125 development...

You see YOU keep quoting these big hp numbers with nothing to back it up-well either show it or shut it is my feelings :aj:

 

[marcusgunby]

So wes, for mx engines ,whats the best hp you have seen from a 125 and 250?? come on spill the beans:)

 

[DEX]

There was a guy who raced up here in Atlantic Canada on a 2003 CR 125 and he was giving nothing up to the four strokes it looked like his bike actually had more power than the 250Fs and pulled them easily on the straights.
However in disscussion with him he mentioned the piston had to be replaced every two hours.
I am not saying the bike had 40 HP or whatever but I will tell you that thing had mad power and sounded sweet!
He isnt racing it next year he says at 160 he is too heavy too be competetive on a 125 ?!!? I dont really agree with that but whatever.

Oh and incase you guys think I am just a punk kid making this up I am a punk kid but no I am not lieing or exaggerating.

Heres the bike. The owner of the bike is also the son of the best engine builder and suspension tuner in Atlantic Canada the kid can do some good work himself actually and had an offer to wrench for Blackfoot in 2005 but turned it down.

Here is the CR 125 anyways. http://www.protechsusp.com/images/cr1251.jpg

Its For Sale now. Heres the info

2003 Cr125(new in 2004)
Very Well Maintained
Lots of goodies on bike as well as a ton of Spares!
- Oversize front disc/full floater
- Hole shot device/Pro circuit
- Front Fork Bleeders/Motion Pro
- Front Suspension Valving/Pro Tech
- Rear Suspension Valving/Pro Tech
- Vortex Ignition High/Low
- Quick adjust clutch/Pro Circuit
- Fat Head/Interchangeable domes
- Match cases/polished
- Polished Crank
- Ported Cylinder
- Delta V- Force Reeds
- Power Blade
- Modified Governor/Mid Range
- SFB Ignition Cover
- SFB clutch Cover
- Wiseco Clutch Basket
- Pro Circuit Pipe/Shorty Silencer
- 2nd Pro Circuit Pipe/Long Silencer
- Works Connection Skid Plate
- Works Connection Rad Guards
- Brake snake
- Pro Circuit Axle blocks
- Renthal sprocket
- DiD gold Chain
- Gripper/SDG Seat
- Universal Bars
- Renthal Grips
- IMS stainless wide pegs
10 Hours on bike.
All Stock parts including plastic,seat,pegs,front disc,bars,CDI box,Stock Exhaust ,etc.
Also available,NEW crank,cylinder,cylinder head, pistons,rings,gaskets
Price $7000.00 firm

Somebody told me he had some oddball European Cylinder on it but I think that is BS or it would have been listed in the mod list.

 

[john3_16]

The Honda uses a poor engine design. According to Eric Gorr's new book Mike Larocco did not even use the new Honda CR 250 engine until 2004!

No wonder he didn't get any good starts until this year !!!

 

[john3_16]

Is the number too low in your mind?? if so don't worry it only applies to that dyno anyway.

No the number wasn't too low in my mind...It's just that it was used to look like a weak number when a guy came on touting big 50 plus HP numbers....I'm sure there are dyno's that'll read that high without all the variables considered...I just think that chart shouldn't have been used to make the guy look silly that's all...I know Marcus was messing with him..lol

Not everyone knows all the facts about dynos and when they see one with a huge number or low number they're either excited or depressed because it doesn't match what they've seen...

It happens in the sportbike arena all the time....You have two guys with the same bike...Some guy in Denver Colorado, get's depressed when his bike is dynoed with sae factor when another guy near long beach show's up with a dyno chart that reads 10 HP higher...Now the guy in Denver is thinking something is wrong with his bike...And of course You can have two of the same bike give different HP readings...

 

[marcusgunby]

Yes but accurate high hp numbers are not common (and what we all want to see)so we want to see the graphs-people quote hp all the time but never have the proof they exist.

 

[marcusgunby]

John i re read what you wrote and now understand what you are saying so heres the chart to compare std to RC250

the runs were done with 10 days of each other and the temps are within 3oF, correction factors are 0.97 and 0.98 so for comparison they are as good as you can get really.

You can see what the works bike was after, it has more bottom end the same peak and more overrev but it does seem to have a issue with the pv opening time, its really not a good engine at all.

 

[marcusgunby]

heres a good dyno for cr modifiers, its a st 02 vs a 03 with 1.3mm cut from the bottom of the cylinder, it shows a good gain across the rev range but strangly at the very bottom it has a loss.

I looked over lots of recent cr dynos and this is one of the best-compared to a 04 rm 250 mod the rm has more power up to 6K then about the same-thats the thing on the cr engine it will not make lots of roll on power.

 

[john3_16]

Hey Marcus thanks for those charts.....That modded RC250 engine looked worse than a stock CR except for the top end and over rev...

Yeah....It's possible to get more bottom from a CR but it will be minimal....If you're looking for strong low end look elsewhere....

One of the things I've noticed is that if you're gonna modify a CR you might as well go with the flow instead of fighting the design of the motor...The design makes it very hard to make big low end numbers, so just take advantage of what it does have and amplify it...You can come up with some impressive HP figures and a fast bike....Just don't expect a low end monster...

 

[steve125]

Ok i have been reading this post for 2 days now and I'll chime in. I totally understand what Pace is saying about how making runs on a dyno really don't mean squat due to different atmospheric conditions. I know most dyno's have correction factors, but to me if you want to compare apples to apples I think the run should be on the same dyno, same day. As for that graph Marcus put up on Bolleys bike. Oh my god that thing is horrible. There had to be a problem with the powervalve opening late, which is maybe why they dyno'd it. I really can imagine having a bike perform so bad at that level. As for Bubba fuel being better than MR2 or U2. No way. It might be almost equal, but due to the unleaded factor. I gurantee if Kawasaki could still use MR2 in there bikes they would. As for a 40HP 125. maybe in a shiftercart and 9 million rpm with no bottom to speak of. Remember guys a powerband is more important than peak HP for MX.

Erik

I agree same Dyno, never meant anyone to think otherwise. But same day?? Thats my beef. I've dynoed in the morning of this "same day" you all speak of and the weather can be very changed by afternoon, temps can swing 20 to 30 degrees So we run our charts SAE to help factor with the change in weather conditions to have a minimal effect on the data when comparing. Same day or same week its all comparable with SAE. On the same Dyno.

 

[SpectraSVT]

Does the weather affect a dyno if it is run indoors in a temp. controlled workshop?

 

[marcusgunby]

Like steve says the temps etc are accounted for with the dyno software they have a graph for a given temp/humidity it will produce hp*conversion factor, so on a 90o day you will make less power(actual power) but the dyno will show the true hp for any given temp, the dyno could falsify the reading to show a fast engine on a hot day making the same hp as that engine on a cold day, but that would be wrong as engines make less power on hot days. Same with altitude.

If its the same dyno(or any dynojet 150 in this case) with similar temps then the results are totally comparable.

 

[too tall]

Has there been any word of the 2005 CR250 coming off the production line in Japan yet? I assume they are made in Japan. I've got a 2004 CR250 and for all the criticism it receives i still think its a good bike. I'm eager to test the improvements for 2005. I am a two stroke man and believe that 2005 will be the year where we start to see the decline in 4-strokes and resurgence of 2-strokes.

 

[bedell99]

You are right steve, same day weather can change considerably. To get back on topic with this thread. I finally checked out the new 05 CR250 and talked at length with the American Honda guy at the International Motorcycle Show this past weekend and closly inspected the cylinder. The powervalve design is completely different. How it operates is the same. It is still a push pull design that is actuated by the same servo design, but the front of the cylinder is completely different. It doesn't have an exhaust flange anymore. The front will completely bolt off. There are 2 large allen key bolts also in the front. the rear of the cylinder has holes in it. Basically what the honda rep told me, was they where tired of comprimising on the engine to get bottom end. So they went for a complete hard hitting midrange to top end powerband and even has a little more bottom to than the 04 model. He tried explaining to me that this has a pro type powerband.(What ever that means) Also he said Honda is not giving up on there 2-strokes. Next year most likely will include the new frame, but he pointed out a couple of times that CRF450 still is the best selling dirtbike and they will sell every one they make. I asked hime if the new cylinder will bolt up to the 02-04 cases and he didn't know. He said he didn't see why not. I'm still going to wait till 06 to get my new bike (after my surgery), but I would have to ride one till i would commit to another CR. There was also one thing I liked with all the CRs and CRF they stamped the spring rate on the springs in the rear shock, not that it was a big deal. Also they had Windams bike there and to me the coolest bike of all Valentio Rossi Yamaha GP bike. The actual bike. So cool. Oh they had a pretty cool cutout of Suzuki's new RMZ450 engine.

Erik

 

[KX02]

Has there been any word of the 2005 CR250 coming off the production line in Japan yet? I assume they are made in Japan. I've got a 2004 CR250 and for all the criticism it receives i still think its a good bike. I'm eager to test the improvements for 2005. I am a two stroke man and believe that 2005 will be the year where we start to see the decline in 4-strokes and resurgence of 2-strokes.

Let's hope so! :cool:

 

[too tall]

Also he said Honda is not giving up on there 2-strokes. Next year most likely will include the new frame, but he pointed out a couple of times that CRF450 still is the best selling dirtbike and they will sell every one they make.

Whatever happened to Honda's EXP 400 dakar bike? A modern, clean, big bore twostroke would eat the CRF450. If only the twostrokes received half of the R&D budget the fourstrokes do the dirt riding world would be a better place.

Your Honda Rep didn't say when the bikes are touching your shores?

 

[Sayntmatt]

Im sure a lot of it was down to RC`s amazing talent but he really showed what a CR250 can do when he stuck it to Everts on the factory YZ450F at the 2003 MXDN! That Yam is supposed to have a super storming but very user friendly engine (so the mags would have us believe) AND Everts was riding it yet RC did the business on his 2 stroke!!

Thats good enough for me!

 

[SpectraSVT]

I agree!

2 strokes are still competitive. I don't know why everyone thinks 4strokes are so far above a 2 stroke that a 2 stroke can't win. Thats BS! I've ridden both and both are awesome. I can understand maybe at the highest level it matters but a 2 stroke can win at the highest level too. Listening to Nick Wey and Ryan Hughes blame their bikes for their dismal season is really pathetic. They are using it as an excuse. Look at Tortelli. He flat out ripped on that 2 stroke after being out for a year and half. At most levels it is the rider who wins not the bike. If a 2 stroke fits you and helps you ride fast then ride that and vice versa. I'm glad there's more choices to fit different riders.

 

[pace]

The Feb issue of Dirt Rider includes a track review of both the CR125 and the 250. They give both of them glowing reviews. It sounds as though both CRs picked up a bunch of power everywhere, and Dirt Rider allude to Honda having addressed the powervalve/gas sealing problems present in the 02-04 CR250.

 

[duke]

This same article in Dirt Rider that you speak of makes mention of the CR125's durability. Paraphrasing the article, it stated that if you are the type of person who keeps their bike for more then one season, the CR, because of its high quality and durability might be a better option. The CR125 faired well in the performance test comparison betweeen it and the 05 YZ125. A close 2nd. Had the 05 CR been incorporated in the magzines 125 shoot out, it would have earned a second place finish over all, displacing the KTM to 3rd.