Any articles on the 05 CR models?

[bedell99]

I just got the magazine last night. Firtst off is me or did other people notice that dirtrider has gotten better over the last couple of issues. The tech stuff is awesome. They gave the CR125 & 250 great results. I was pretty impressed, especially for the 125. It been the bottom of the barrel for so long, its good to see the bike finally came out of the review closet. What caught my attention the most though, was the reviewers hearing odd sounds coming from the 250 engine. What can a powervalve possibly due to make it sound like it is detonation. If it is rattling that is definetly not good and not to worry about that makes me think that it is even worse. Any thoughts on this guys??

Erik

 

[pace]

I always thought my '03 powervalve was pretty noisy, frankly.. However, the only thing I experience that sounds like det is my PC pipe and retaining springs rattling at certain low rpms.

It would really be nice to hear an owners verdict on the '05 250 from a DRN member who has also owned an '02, '03' or '04.

I agree on Dirt Rider - Eric's article was great. I may pick up a year subscription.

-pace

 

[marcusgunby]

I should be dyno testing a 2005 Cr125 and CRF250 on friday , with KP, we are going to do a little tuning on the 125 and see if it has any hp hidden in the new motor-i will post up results sometime soon.

 

[pace]

Very cool. I don't expect that the 125 will get close to the F, but it will be interesting nonetheless to see what you can extract from it.

 

[James980]

Firtst off is me or did other people notice that dirtrider has gotten better over the last couple of issues.

Jimmy Lewis (former Cycle World off-road editor and long-time moto-journalist guy) has taken over as Dirt Rider editor. Lewis is a good editor but, probably more importantly, is a hard-core rider/racer in his own right. If you've followed any of his stuff over the years (riding off-road from Mexico to Canada, etc.) you know the guy's an animal on a bike. Lewis alone probably gives Dirtrider Mag the most well-rounded editorial staff in terms of riding experience (talking about editors, not test riders here).

 

[Studboy]

Cool Marcus, I'll be looking forward to seeing those.

 

[KX02]

Racer X did a shootout of the big five also. I'm not sure if it's been posted or not, so here it is.

http://www.racerxill.com/120104_250_Shootout.cfm

 

[Rcannon]

Eric Gorr is writing a lot of the technical stuff now. If you like that, skip the next several magazines and order his technical manual. The book is excellent...I dont know what else to say about it.

 

[Studboy]

Roland, when are you going to bring that thing over so that I can look it over???

I may just have to buy one.

 

[Rcannon]

Richard, we need to do just that. With this book..just get it. It is that good. Skip buying a school text book to make up the difference.

May I suggest History....

 

[bedell99]

Has anyone checked out the new review on the CR250 in MXA. Some interesting stuff, especially about its dyno numbers. It beat everybody on the dyno on the lowend, but did not feel like it on the track. Also very interesting tidbit on traction control or honda "secret traction control" prgrammed into the blackbox.

Erik

 

[marcusgunby]

Interesting as i have never seen a dyno show good numbers on bottom end and yet the engine feel lacking, the ktm 125 is a good example it has 16hp at 7000prm and everyone raves about its low end, the cr 125 has 12hp and everyone says it feels terrible, hate it when the dyno lies;)

 

[bedell99]

According to the MXA dyno it beat both the YZ and RM by 2-3 horspower up to 7000 r.p.m. They couldn't believe it so they got another one a test and got the same results. The more interesting thing is how MXA claims Honda put traction control into the black box. Better to read than me explain it here. It should be on news stands anyday and if you suscribe in your mailbox this week.

Erik

 

[marcusgunby]

7K on a 250 is midrange-what was it at 5K.They spoke of traction control on the 95 crs i never saw/felt the difference.

 

[steve125]

4 to 6k is bottom on a 250, the YZ beats the RM by about 2 hp in this range. 7 to 9k is where to look for mid to top numbers.

 

[KX02]

Has anyone checked out the new review on the CR250 in MXA. Some interesting stuff, especially about its dyno numbers. It beat everybody on the dyno on the lowend, but did not feel like it on the track. Also very interesting tidbit on traction control or honda "secret traction control" prgrammed into the blackbox.

Erik

I heard next year Honda is coming out with anti lock brakes, power steering and cruise control! :laugh:

 

[marcusgunby]

You not going to like this every one:(

The cr125 is a dog-well a reasonable dog you may learn to love :coocoo: it has ok bottom and decent mid but then it all goes horribly wrong when a 125 is meant to be singing the cr just humms, with a bit of jetting(430 main) it made just over 30hp :bang:

It uses a circa 2001 powervalve from a parts bin, the carb has a massive offset-so much so they had to use allen keys to fit the reed manifold-the carb is a total PIA to work on as well.It has a decent tight squish clearance(1.2mm) so you wont find gains there.The pipe has some weird reinforcement on the downpipe that looks back yard,the ex port is low but its too wide and thats hard to correct,basically a tuned 05 cr 125 will match a std 05 of the others.The 05 YZ 125 is miles away from it(34hp)

The 05 crf was very very good, 33 hp with great power -it was a tiny bit behind a 04 RMZ used in the brit champs-it had a pipe and a ignition and other goodies.

 

[zeppelinrider]

Your talking about the 05 Cr125 right???

I havent seen or read anything on the cr250 but i saw the 05 125 and it seems to me same design and i dont know whats different on it from the 04 model besides it being lighter.

 

[marcusgunby]

yes 05 cr125 -only one to be dynoed in the UK-i forgot to say the piston rattles like its done 30 hours:(

It has old style pv where the 04 had a electronic setup.It also has one of those horrid throttle sensor carbs.

 

[steve125]

The 125 still rattles???.......DR says the new CR 250 has a bad rattle........part power valve, part ping......... :coocoo:

 

[marcusgunby]

It was bad piston rattle on this on IMO-low compression on the kick start as well-big ring gaps i think-same old stuff as last 5 years.

 

[pace]

Thanks for this, Marcus - it's very informative.

And not meaning to be pedantic, but according to the dynochart you posted it actually laid down ~31 / 0.97 = 32HP on that day. (It appears that your ambient conditions were favorable such that a small SAE correction was applied to correct the horsepower down to ~31). Anyway, I don't say this to get into another big SAE dyno discussion again, just pointing out that the corrected output is not the same as what the bike actually laid down on that particular day.

2HP, 3HP, whatever.. that's a significant deficit in the tiddler class! A little odd that the recent mag comparisons did not pick up on this.. :coocoo:

-pace

 

[marcusgunby]

pace you are being pedantic and its not a very nice character trait, we have someone at work like that and i end up not bothering to discuss as it takes away from the enjoyment of debating. :think:

 

[bedell99]

Marcus do you think the cause of some of the CR125 problems are due to sealing. If there is so much offset in the carb and changes in direction that it can impede airflow. I know it was ymaha's goal to make the intake tract as straight as possible. I want to ride a CR125 so bad just to see the difference. The last one i rode was an 01 and I liked it a lot. i thought it had a better powerband than my 99 kx144 and was much easier to ride. my riding buddy owns a 03 yz125 and his bike absoultly rips. It makes me want to own a 125 again without the maintence. I can only imagine want an 05 feels like. If i was going to plunk down 5000 grand on a new bike i can gurantee it would not be on a CR125. Good bike or bad. I think you get better value right now in the yamaha 2-strokes. How did Honda let this happen. They are the all powerful Honda. The CR250 still has so much potential. Maybe next year??

Erik

 

[marcusgunby]

Well we have to put the cr performance into context, i beleive for a normal rider the cr is a reasonable engine as from the bottom to the lower top the engine is ok, its just where a 125 should start to make real HP(10K) the cr dies away, a expert rider will miss that last rush of top end power they can use to make the cr fly, other riders may decide the power upto 10K is good enough for them, its a better cr engine than most others and in 2001 it would have been one of the best , but in 05 the others have made gains.With a decent piston kit it would be a reasonable engine.Just dont expect to chase 250fs down big straights and win.

The tuning side of the cr is tricky, i dont see gains from the head, or carb, a boyesen 3 reed block may help straighten the big offset on the carb,A pipe will give a solid 1 hp gain and should help top end rev.

The only thing is i dont see it ever being a 36hp monster like my RM;)

How did honda get to this stage?? i ask myself the same thing, people suggest its to make the 250f look even better, i think not as the pre 250f 125s were bad, all the engine really needs IMO is a new cylinder(or a 99 one) and a straight inlet tract.The one good thing about the 05 cr is the pv seals real well compared to the 2001 so thats why the bottom end works much better.