After spending the summer being pounded and punished by my 00' CR250, I pulled my old 95' CR250 off the trailer and was amazed to find that I like the old, totally stock suspension much better. To add insult to injury, I rode a 01' YZ250 last weekend and came away mucho impressed with it's ability to soak up bumps without making me feel old and feeble. I love the way my 00' handles and the motor is perfect, but what can I do to make the suspension plusher (like my clapped-out 95'!)? I've moved the clickers around with some success, just not enough. I'm done for the season as the snow will soon fly in Michigan, so I'm planning on sending the suspension off to be revalved but I don't really know what to ask for. I weigh 165lbs and ride in the "B" class (with great speed for the first lap or so, then my bike beats me into submission and I trailride for the last 4)..
00' CR250 tips?
- Thread starter Dterrian
- Start date
On a more serious note, your stock springs are in the ball park for your weight. Your fork springs might be suspect as all that I have tested in 00 CR have rated .40kg and I would suggest .42kg for you. You would want them tested to be sure.
You could gain more clicker adjustability by switching fluids to Mobil 1 ATF, or any heavier fluids like Motorex 7.5wt. The MObil 1 works awesome,is synthetic and cheap at about $5 a bottle. It is what I use in my personal bike and for my customers. In consideration of revalve, do it! Your bike needs some help there. No if's and's or but's that bike needs a revalve, especially the shock.
If you need more specific answers drop me a note.
You could gain more clicker adjustability by switching fluids to Mobil 1 ATF, or any heavier fluids like Motorex 7.5wt. The MObil 1 works awesome,is synthetic and cheap at about $5 a bottle. It is what I use in my personal bike and for my customers. In consideration of revalve, do it! Your bike needs some help there. No if's and's or but's that bike needs a revalve, especially the shock.
If you need more specific answers drop me a note.
GregCR80rider
Member
- Nov 1, 2000
- 1
- 0
hmmm how about putting the 95 forks on the 00
honda's are mean thats how i like em. The faster you go on a new honda the nicer the bike is!
honda's are mean thats how i like em. The faster you go on a new honda the nicer the bike is!
yo its matt!
Member
- Aug 26, 2000
- 69
- 0
hey shocknut,
my buddy is having the same trouble on his 00cr250, hes a pro harescramble rider here in nc, and this bike is killing him! hes had several wrist injuries and the forks are making things worse, the guy that usually does his suspension stuff said he hasnt had much luck with these so he didnt want to attempt it, so now hes a little spooked and not sure what to do, hes about 178-180lbs, likes the forks on big hits, i rode it today and compaired to my 01yz426 its really harsh
he has the comp adjusters all the way out and its so rough on light chop! you feel every pebble in the trail, im 205 and i still felt that it transfered every bump to your hands, would mobil 1 help? what can be done? if i can show him some improvemnt i think i can talk him into revaling this beast
my buddy is having the same trouble on his 00cr250, hes a pro harescramble rider here in nc, and this bike is killing him! hes had several wrist injuries and the forks are making things worse, the guy that usually does his suspension stuff said he hasnt had much luck with these so he didnt want to attempt it, so now hes a little spooked and not sure what to do, hes about 178-180lbs, likes the forks on big hits, i rode it today and compaired to my 01yz426 its really harsh
he has the comp adjusters all the way out and its so rough on light chop! you feel every pebble in the trail, im 205 and i still felt that it transfered every bump to your hands, would mobil 1 help? what can be done? if i can show him some improvemnt i think i can talk him into revaling this beast
John Blaze
Member
- Feb 24, 2000
- 29
- 0
I rode a friend of mines '00 CR250 and loved the suspension. I thought it handled everything really nicely. It wasn't as stiff as my XR's (Race Tech Modified) forks but they were a LOT better. Might just be rider preference.
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Johnny Campbell
Reno, Nevada
'99 XR442 (For Sale) http://johnnyb.4t.com/forsale.html
'01 CR500AF (Coming Soon)
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Johnny Campbell
Reno, Nevada
'99 XR442 (For Sale) http://johnnyb.4t.com/forsale.html
'01 CR500AF (Coming Soon)
Yo Matt,
Lets keep this simple, your compression is set at full out. What about your rebound setting?
Tear em' down and clean them good. I mean CLEAN. Everything. Blow everything out good with 80psi of air. Paying particular attention to bleed passages. Reassemble with Mobil 1 ATF, .42kg springs and set clickers at 14 out comp and 12 out rebound and go hit the trails agian and see if they are any better. No matter what you will never get them to work as good as a solid revalve job. E-mail me if you have more specific questions.
Lets keep this simple, your compression is set at full out. What about your rebound setting?
Tear em' down and clean them good. I mean CLEAN. Everything. Blow everything out good with 80psi of air. Paying particular attention to bleed passages. Reassemble with Mobil 1 ATF, .42kg springs and set clickers at 14 out comp and 12 out rebound and go hit the trails agian and see if they are any better. No matter what you will never get them to work as good as a solid revalve job. E-mail me if you have more specific questions.
Pete Payne
MX-Tech Suspension Agent
- Nov 3, 2000
- 933
- 38
Yo matt &Deterrian,
The 00 cr250 forks can be harsh but, before you bite the $$$$ for a revalve make sure that your forks are lined up properly at the front axle. If the bottom of the forks are pulled in or pushed out they will not function properly, they have to be parallel to each other . If the axle has ever been hammered in, the end that the hammer hit is probably mushroomed out and will not line up properly no matter what.
This fork has a mid-valve that is way too stiff for the average rider . The race tech fork mentioned previously mentioned probably had the mid-valve changed to a check plate to aleviate the harshness. This mod works great for everybody except for really fast supercross riders they dont have any real bad breaking bumps to worry about and are generally in realy good shape.
Just some food for thought!
Pete
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The 00 cr250 forks can be harsh but, before you bite the $$$$ for a revalve make sure that your forks are lined up properly at the front axle. If the bottom of the forks are pulled in or pushed out they will not function properly, they have to be parallel to each other . If the axle has ever been hammered in, the end that the hammer hit is probably mushroomed out and will not line up properly no matter what.
This fork has a mid-valve that is way too stiff for the average rider . The race tech fork mentioned previously mentioned probably had the mid-valve changed to a check plate to aleviate the harshness. This mod works great for everybody except for really fast supercross riders they dont have any real bad breaking bumps to worry about and are generally in realy good shape.
Just some food for thought!
Pete
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Don't be so quick to blame the forks for being harsh without considering your shock. Yes the rear will have a direct affect on the front end harshness. Set your forks to stock settings, set your shock sag and go with 1.5 on the high speed and then start playing with the slow speed and rebound on the shock. This is what will have the biggest tunable affect on the 00'cr250's harshness.
zio
Mr. Atlas
- Jul 28, 2000
- 2,284
- 0
mxpaul, you're scaring me. Everytime I experience something, you've replied about the same thing a moment before. You wouldn't be my smarter, evil twin, would you?
I just realized yesterday in a rough race that my shock is just as important as my forks. As the forks rock the bike back over a certain bump (because they don't absorb the small hit), the shock then rocks the bike forward when the rear tire hits the same bumb. neither end was doing it's job of absorbing the small bumbs on the trail. I actually think I could have handled the stiff fork if the rear seat wouldn't have been punishing my butt like a prison inmate.
At least that was my impression, anyway. It was so hard to manage the '00 CR250 at race speed on a very rough HareScramble course that was filled with rocks and lots of choppy, 1/2 to 1 1/2 ft high bumps(note: race speed for me is a casual sunday drive for most).
Revalve or kTm, here I come.
I just realized yesterday in a rough race that my shock is just as important as my forks. As the forks rock the bike back over a certain bump (because they don't absorb the small hit), the shock then rocks the bike forward when the rear tire hits the same bumb. neither end was doing it's job of absorbing the small bumbs on the trail. I actually think I could have handled the stiff fork if the rear seat wouldn't have been punishing my butt like a prison inmate.
At least that was my impression, anyway. It was so hard to manage the '00 CR250 at race speed on a very rough HareScramble course that was filled with rocks and lots of choppy, 1/2 to 1 1/2 ft high bumps(note: race speed for me is a casual sunday drive for most).
Revalve or kTm, here I come.
Jeremy Wilkey
Owner, MX-Tech
- Jan 28, 2000
- 1,453
- 0
Pete,
I would like your comments on this please..
I personally think anyone who removes a mid-valve should be burned at the stack or inviscerated (Just like what they have done to there forks).
Jer
We all repeat the midvalve lore we hear from the Thede desciples.
Problem with midvalves is that they are such a bitch to get to that we (the great unwashed) never experiment with them. Everytime I pull the top caps off my cartridges I'm afraid I'm going to crush something with my vise. (Yeah, I'm using improvised tooling.)
Problem with midvalves is that they are such a bitch to get to that we (the great unwashed) never experiment with them. Everytime I pull the top caps off my cartridges I'm afraid I'm going to crush something with my vise. (Yeah, I'm using improvised tooling.)
John Curea
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Feb 29, 2000
- 177
- 0
INVISCERATED ???? IS THAT LIKE CASTERATED??!!!
or mabye you meant "emancipated"
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Pete Payne
MX-Tech Suspension Agent
- Nov 3, 2000
- 933
- 38
J. Wilkey,
I was just responding to the fact of why the race tech modified forks worked so well. I have personally done this mod in my shop and it works great for me and was not saying that this was the only way to get a plusher setup fork. This mod does require other things to be changed to work in conjunction with it .There are many ways to get to the same end result of a way better ride. Sorry ,I dont want to be viscerized!!
I was just responding to the fact of why the race tech modified forks worked so well. I have personally done this mod in my shop and it works great for me and was not saying that this was the only way to get a plusher setup fork. This mod does require other things to be changed to work in conjunction with it .There are many ways to get to the same end result of a way better ride. Sorry ,I dont want to be viscerized!!
JTT,
Midvalve is located on the back side of your rebound piston opposite your rebound valving
It's true that the CR uses lots of midvalve but it also bleeds more as well.
Pete Payne,
The forks previously mentioned that were RT'd were XR forks. To my knowledge they don't use midvalves. Furthemore, that post stated that the CR forks worked better than his RT'd forks. At least that's what I gathered from the post. Removing the midvalve is an option for some I guess but I prefer to work with them now after learning more about them.
Midvalve is located on the back side of your rebound piston opposite your rebound valving
It's true that the CR uses lots of midvalve but it also bleeds more as well.
Pete Payne,
The forks previously mentioned that were RT'd were XR forks. To my knowledge they don't use midvalves. Furthemore, that post stated that the CR forks worked better than his RT'd forks. At least that's what I gathered from the post. Removing the midvalve is an option for some I guess but I prefer to work with them now after learning more about them.
JTT,
Yeah, I guess you could refer to it as the compression side if that helps. And yes, there is another compression stack. It's located on your compression assembly which is the 32mm nut with the adjuster in the center of it. If you remove this assembly you will see a piston with a valving arrangement(compression) on one side and a check plate on the other. This compression stack is the one revalved for better performance.
The midvalve has replaced the old style checkplate arrangement on the rebound piston. Remove your cartridge rod and you can see this. Race Tech guys remove the midvalve and convert it back to a checkplate.
Yeah, I guess you could refer to it as the compression side if that helps. And yes, there is another compression stack. It's located on your compression assembly which is the 32mm nut with the adjuster in the center of it. If you remove this assembly you will see a piston with a valving arrangement(compression) on one side and a check plate on the other. This compression stack is the one revalved for better performance.
The midvalve has replaced the old style checkplate arrangement on the rebound piston. Remove your cartridge rod and you can see this. Race Tech guys remove the midvalve and convert it back to a checkplate.
Jeremy Wilkey
Owner, MX-Tech
- Jan 28, 2000
- 1,453
- 0
<<<<This is not directed to or for anyone>>>>
I use this as a story or a comentary and I want to mention that no one has earned the right to be flamed here.. I'm just worked up..
The mid-valve only impacts the "mid-speed" and unless the bumps are bike size will it make a front suspension harsh..
They will provide more feedback but not harshness. IMO that anyone who completly removes a mid-valve has no concept of the componets in a modern fork and how they work.
I think the reason RT replaces the mid-valve is they would hate to have to devlop new technology on there base-valve..I mean WHY go test and use new tech. when we can just modify the exsiting stuff so it works like the old stuff..
Anyway how about some food for thought. I'm taking artialliary from Shocknut here but I can resist no longer.. Can you tell me what the difrence between say a GV and a Stock Showa Fork piston? 20,23,25.. Hum real equal area.. I'm willing to bet you could get the monkey of your back and avoid the twelve step program if you got you calculator and changed the pivot to OD ratio to be equal with RT's GV..
Or you could join the rest of the educated suspension comunity and realize that removing the mid-valve makes the 91 KX 250 fork no difrent than a modern one.. Hum
BTW
Invisercated is the midevil practice of removing the bowels of a poor soul while they are (brefily) alive.. Ever (seen my favorite movie) Brave heart.. Rather graphic portrail..
I used it as a distaful anlogy to removing the mid-valve..
Jer
I use this as a story or a comentary and I want to mention that no one has earned the right to be flamed here.. I'm just worked up..
The mid-valve only impacts the "mid-speed" and unless the bumps are bike size will it make a front suspension harsh..
They will provide more feedback but not harshness. IMO that anyone who completly removes a mid-valve has no concept of the componets in a modern fork and how they work.
I think the reason RT replaces the mid-valve is they would hate to have to devlop new technology on there base-valve..I mean WHY go test and use new tech. when we can just modify the exsiting stuff so it works like the old stuff..
Anyway how about some food for thought. I'm taking artialliary from Shocknut here but I can resist no longer.. Can you tell me what the difrence between say a GV and a Stock Showa Fork piston? 20,23,25.. Hum real equal area.. I'm willing to bet you could get the monkey of your back and avoid the twelve step program if you got you calculator and changed the pivot to OD ratio to be equal with RT's GV..
Or you could join the rest of the educated suspension comunity and realize that removing the mid-valve makes the 91 KX 250 fork no difrent than a modern one.. Hum
BTW
Invisercated is the midevil practice of removing the bowels of a poor soul while they are (brefily) alive.. Ever (seen my favorite movie) Brave heart.. Rather graphic portrail..
I used it as a distaful anlogy to removing the mid-valve..
Jer
John Curea
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Feb 29, 2000
- 177
- 0
Jer,
Ok, let me see if I got this right.... The midvalve provides more "feedback" to the rider. This may seem like harshness to an unsuspecting rider. "Most" suspension shops are removing the midvalve which will create a plushness over the small trail stuff, but the rider will suffer greatly when the going gets nasty (ie. "g" outs, whoops, big stuff). They are selling this concept hoping the rider will jump on his bike and be so elated over the smoothness of the small stuff that he wont realize the level of control he's compromizing on the nasty sections of trail.
I would speculate and say that the midvalve should be tuned in relation to the rest of the suspension, that being a fast rider would have his midvalve tuned for more "feedback", and firmness , a faster rider would be in shape to handle a bike set up this way. Where as a slower rider wouldn't need this level of firmness, because he wouldnt be hitting the trail as fast or hard.
I would also say that the one important item a suspension shop, that chooses to use the technology of the midvalve, must absolutely be "in touch" with the riders' speed and ability. Because if the shop gets this incorrect and sets up the bikes' capacity exceeding the riders ability, it will be the rider who suffers on ride quality.
John
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Ok, let me see if I got this right.... The midvalve provides more "feedback" to the rider. This may seem like harshness to an unsuspecting rider. "Most" suspension shops are removing the midvalve which will create a plushness over the small trail stuff, but the rider will suffer greatly when the going gets nasty (ie. "g" outs, whoops, big stuff). They are selling this concept hoping the rider will jump on his bike and be so elated over the smoothness of the small stuff that he wont realize the level of control he's compromizing on the nasty sections of trail.
I would speculate and say that the midvalve should be tuned in relation to the rest of the suspension, that being a fast rider would have his midvalve tuned for more "feedback", and firmness , a faster rider would be in shape to handle a bike set up this way. Where as a slower rider wouldn't need this level of firmness, because he wouldnt be hitting the trail as fast or hard.
I would also say that the one important item a suspension shop, that chooses to use the technology of the midvalve, must absolutely be "in touch" with the riders' speed and ability. Because if the shop gets this incorrect and sets up the bikes' capacity exceeding the riders ability, it will be the rider who suffers on ride quality.
John
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I appologize for getting off the subject, but in referance to John's comments, how do you revalve for a given rider (shock or fork) with only riders provided "level". I mean, one may consider himself/herself (politically correct, as always) an "expert" "aggressive" rider, but relative to what? ...to the likes of Carmichael? or his/her cousin with the "buggy"?
...just always wondered that...
JTT
- Thread starter
- #23
Wow. All I really wanted to know is if it's possible to make my beloved
00' CR250 ride like it's older brothers
or blue neighbors. I want a YZ ride with my bikes turning, motor, clutch, air manners and build quality and ergo's.
I'm thinking it needs stiffer springs and lighter damping, but then again my old 95'CR has sacked out springs and
I like the way it rides. Or maybe they're not sacked out - does anyone know the difference in stock spring rates
between the 95' and 00'? I remember reading an article a few years ago where some company came out with an
off-road version of the CR250 called a CRE250. The article said that somehow they revalved the suspension in
a way that "de-aluminized" the feel of the bike. That's where I want to be. And maybe a flywheel weight, but that's
all. Well, maybe a stronger throttle return spring, but that's definitely it....
00' CR250 ride like it's older brothers
or blue neighbors. I want a YZ ride with my bikes turning, motor, clutch, air manners and build quality and ergo's.
I'm thinking it needs stiffer springs and lighter damping, but then again my old 95'CR has sacked out springs and
I like the way it rides. Or maybe they're not sacked out - does anyone know the difference in stock spring rates
between the 95' and 00'? I remember reading an article a few years ago where some company came out with an
off-road version of the CR250 called a CRE250. The article said that somehow they revalved the suspension in
a way that "de-aluminized" the feel of the bike. That's where I want to be. And maybe a flywheel weight, but that's
all. Well, maybe a stronger throttle return spring, but that's definitely it....
Pete Payne
MX-Tech Suspension Agent
- Nov 3, 2000
- 933
- 38
Dterrian,
How about this thought! Maybe the mid-valve on your 95 CR250 is bent and stuck open, this would give a softer ride. This is one good reason to convert the mid-valve to a chack plate design. The check plate is thicker and will not bend , so it always performs the same. Then you can tune in everything with the base valve.
Believe me I owned an aluminum framed CR250 and it was very harsh, I weigh in at 240lbs and am a long time expert . I tried tuning the mid-valve down to be better and went to the Race Tech check plate and valve assembly and the bike felt much better , this works great on the CR250 aluminum frame. I also built an aluminum framed CR500 and the stock forks were harsh even with the extra weight and power of the 500 engine in the 250 frame.
How about this thought! Maybe the mid-valve on your 95 CR250 is bent and stuck open, this would give a softer ride. This is one good reason to convert the mid-valve to a chack plate design. The check plate is thicker and will not bend , so it always performs the same. Then you can tune in everything with the base valve.
Believe me I owned an aluminum framed CR250 and it was very harsh, I weigh in at 240lbs and am a long time expert . I tried tuning the mid-valve down to be better and went to the Race Tech check plate and valve assembly and the bike felt much better , this works great on the CR250 aluminum frame. I also built an aluminum framed CR500 and the stock forks were harsh even with the extra weight and power of the 500 engine in the 250 frame.