DEVLAN

Member
Apr 16, 2001
2
0
I am also interested in the 2004 CR250 2-stroke. I wanted to know if it is easier to dial in the jetting on the 2004 compaired to the 2003. Members of this forum and local riders are always discussing the jetting problems of the CR.
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
I've got an 03' and I can't figure out what all the complaints are about the jetting...I run vp c12 mixed with mobile mx2t and leaned it out a bit and it runs really well...I've had guys that I don't know me come up to me at the track after practice and they say "Wow, you're bike sounds strong...Really clean sound". And it does run strong and it barks hard in the midrange and top end.

I think alot of the people complaining about the jetting are those that don't get on the throttle very hard...Nothing wrong with that if you don't have the skill level or desire to ride that hard...

But..These are 2 stroke motocross RACEbikes and they run best when the throttle is wide open and the bike is on the powerband. If you don't like riding like that you'll be better off with a 4 stroke that has the strong low end and runs good at all throttle openings.
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
Hey guys, if you want an 04' CR250 go ahead and get one...Or get a new 03' if they still have them.....But be prepared...It's fast, just like the 03' but it a midrange and top end bike and it suits someone that rides wide open....It's very light and handles better than anything I've ever ridden...I've ridden lots of bikes and it's amazing just how good the stock suspension is...The 04' is a little better in the suspension but the way the handle is almost identical. It's so light that it feels like a 125....It doesn't do anything weird off of jumps and it's easy to be confident on it really quick because it handles so well.

Unless you're a fast rider, you won't like the stock motor on a tight track because it doesn't have a lot of bottom end....What it does have is huge midrange and top end....It pulls hard. The Honda has a case reed motor and case reed motors don't produce alot of bottom end...They produce big mid and top end so there's a trade off...

There are things that sway me to the Honda other than performance...It's got a superior design...Everything fits perfecty...It's easy to work on..It's a high quality, reliable bike.


I rode an 04' KX250 and I absolutely love it...The motor is so easy to ride it's rediculous..The Honda has more power and is faster, but you don't have to be as agressive on the KX...It's so fun to ride because it barks right when you twist the throttle..It's really stable too. I'm kinda short and the KX is on the small side so it fit me perfectly...But there are things about the Kawasaki that keep me from purchasing it.
 

DEVLAN

Member
Apr 16, 2001
2
0
Thanks for the information WHITESANDS26. I am getting back into MX and your description of the CR250 was exactly what I wanted to hear and sounds like the bike for me.
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
Originally posted by thirtyfour
"But there are things about the Kawasaki that keep me from purchasing it."

well tell us , what is it ???

Well, First let me say that I really do like all motorcycles in general and I always want to get the best bike that meets what is important to me and I'll gladly get another brand if they step up to the plate (I've owned many other brands of bikes in the past and wouldn't hesitate to get a different one)....All of the 2004 jap motocross bikes are great performers right off the showroom floor....Each bike has it's strong points where it may outperform another in a particular area...However, there are other things to consider that just performance alone.

This might anger a few individuals but I find the Kawasaki to be of lower quality than the Honda....The KX runs great and handles great but when I look at the bike with a detailed eye the Honda just appears to have a cleaner design...I've had Kawasaki's in the past and I've had trouble with the alignment of parts...You take different parts apart and when you go to put it back together you find that it doesn't easily align...Tolerances seem to be a little off...The welds on the frame are sloppy...The exhaust hangers look cheap....Everyone that I know (myself included) that performs regular maintenance on the KX's they've had left the bike looking "worked on". Nut's and bolts having a softer compound than some of their competitors become rounded very easily...My buddy that does MX bike maintenance only really dislikes it when he has to work on a KX because in his own words "you're working on it and some small part breaks, then you've gotta order it and wait for the part to finish the job". The transmission oil plug is made out of a very soft rubber...Change the oil enough and it will eventually twist off when you're trying to remove it..No big deal really, but if you're about to go riding and that happens and now you've gotta go all the way to the shop, get the part, take rest of the plug out if you can...Oh wait.....The track is now closed...That's o.k.....You can wait a another week to ride...lol..I've heard several different people complain about the soft rubber transmission oil plug. I really don't like plastic ignition covers either.
If you do regular maintenance you need to go ahead and buy a complete set of some sort of high quality nut and bolts...After a few times tightening the bolts lose their integrity and easily work their way lose..Torque the nuts down to the exact torque and the bolt snaps...Now you've gotta get the old bolt out of the hole...Do this at the track a few times and it gets old.

Anything can go wrong with any bike...But there seems to me more difficulty's associated with some of the other brands...It's like, you've got a failed part, wouldn't you rather have the failed part that's made of gold ? In my opinion you are getting much more for your money when you buy a honda...If I'm going to spend 5 grand I'd rather it go to something that's higher quality and is a little more trouble free.
I don't reccomend the KX (or RM) unless you can get a really good deal.
 

G92Joe

Member
Apr 7, 2001
202
0
So if all the fasteners are replaced with quality grade 8.8 hardware, does that problem go away? Or are there other issues? Did'nt the magazines say the KX (and RM) make large improvements in quality with the 2004 models?
 

nephron

Dr. Feel Good
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 15, 2001
2,552
0
I've always thought the plastic filler caps were less likely to seize (and therefore break) than alloy-alloy. Furthermore, when you twist a 'resistant' one, they strip instead of break. Also, wouldn't you expect them to be less likely to vibrate out in the setting of 'human error'?

ie, I'm sure there are plenty of very smart engineers at all these factories that have their own opinions on what's best...more like philosophies. So I don't view the different plugs as cheaper than another, as I doubt it costs more to cast an alloy plug than a plastic one.

The Zook/Kawi vs. Yamaha/Honda thing is just a tired, worn-out, overdone misconceived 'sweeping thought' that I find sort of ignorant.

But hey, I'm blind to those bad welds and unnecessarily 'messy' designs.
 

jboomer

~SPONSOR~
Jan 5, 2002
1,420
1
Well, it seems that the KX's plugs are either a soft rubber or VERY soft plastic (they are pliable/flexible when bent with your fingers). My CRF's plugs are pretty hard plastic. My '01 KX250 had the oil filler plug break off. I went to loosen it one day and the top just "twisted" off in my hand.

I did see a KXF in the local shop a couple weeks back and it had the "alloy" plug (goes to show they are noticing these things and seeking to improve upon them). But, what was really interesting was that it appeared you needed an allen wrench to remove it!
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
Originally posted by jboomer


I did see a KXF in the local shop a couple weeks back and it had the "alloy" plug (goes to show they are noticing these things and seeking to improve upon them). But, what was really interesting was that it appeared you needed an allen wrench to remove it!


Yes...The engine was designed by Suzuki...I went and looked at it for the first time at the shop the other day and I noticed that the filler cap was alloy and I was very impressed with the design. Very clean.
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
Originally posted by nephron



The Zook/Kawi vs. Yamaha/Honda thing is just a tired, worn-out, overdone misconceived 'sweeping thought' that I find sort of ignorant.

But hey, I'm blind to those bad welds and unnecessarily 'messy' designs.

Don't you just love vague statements that offer no facts? Please, we could do a poll on which exhaust mount is a cleaner design and I guarantee you most would say Honda....Cylinder head stays..It doesn't matter I can go on and on..



What's ignorant IMHO is if a person that spends enough time looking at the details and can't notice the difference...There IS a difference.

I pointed out clear details, not a vague "sweeping thought"...The funny thing is that the people that claim there is "no difference" never seem to be able to come up with anything backing up that claim.
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
Originally posted by G92Joe
So if all the fasteners are replaced with quality grade 8.8 hardware, does that problem go away? Or are there other issues? Did'nt the magazines say the KX (and RM) make large improvements in quality with the 2004 models?

I would agree that the KX is of better quality than it used to be...But so are the other brand offerings and they are still a step above the kx.

Still though..What really bothers me is that the soft rubber transmission cap is the same design as what came on the bike in the 1980's.
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
6,450
2
take a Cr125 engine to bits and it isnt that good quality, the 02 has a reed spacer that requires about 4 gaskets, the head gasket is from the 1980s and isnt a patch on the modern o ring design.The head dowels are a joke.They detonate and blow up on pump fuel-i could go on but you would think im anti honda, this is wrong-ive had more crs than the other bikes ive owned,just trying to show they all have the problems.Look under the bump rubber of any year old cr shock-you will find pitting(all kybs do this to be fair) but the cr isnt imune because its a honda.Honda make a clean nice bike but i dont feel it has anything superiour than the others(apart from YZs that i think are cheezy LOL)
 

bigred455

"LET'S JUST RIDE"
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Sep 12, 2000
782
0
Don't forget about yz's being happy with phillips head bolts or undesireable clutch pull,or cr's paper base gaskets(Look at kawa base gasket)Cylinder lifts off clean every time) or how soft the aluminum frame is. Some little things bother riders on some models where it would not phase another rider. I CAN PICK ANY BIKE APART. :laugh:
 

muddy226

Sponsoring Member
Sep 14, 2003
271
0
Well my last 3 have been RMs, before that KX and before that CR. If people ask me I would say that the Honda is better quality, but can't really say why, it just seems to be fit and feel. I must say though that apart from a problem on the 2000 RM with badly designed inlet bridges the Suzuki's have never really had a problem that wasn't caused by me, and maybe the inlet bridges wouldn't have been a problem either if I had changed the piston at the proper time. The KX is made by "Kawasaki Heavy Industries" and although the quality on the outside didn't seem that special, the innards seemed to be exceptionally good quality and very durable. I guess they all have their strong and weak points, and I'm pleased they do. If I could afford a new bike now it would be a RM250, but with any luck for me they might be really cheap next year as they stay at the dealer while the 4strokes sell out !
 

bigred455

"LET'S JUST RIDE"
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Sep 12, 2000
782
0
Originally posted by G92Joe
Big red,
Anything major (other than a fill plug) that bothers you about your 03 kx250?
.......

The new plating for 03 on the cylinder is still circumspect,deglazing the cylinder with a ball type hone can make it start too lift, leave it alone when doing a top end.The shock shaft at the very bottom had a spot on it where the plating did not stick during the process(KAYABA) it does not go into the body when compressed,but I am keeping a eye out for it. The reeds are nothing major,but this is something to look out for. I chipped the bottom right side part of the reed in 50 hrs very small piece,but enough to notice the slight hesitation off of the very bottom. This is very good considering the 00 kx 250 reeds would get smoked in 2.5 hrs and a pretty good size would be missing!!!!!!! I replaced the 03 reeds with boyesen pro series and I am very happy with them,I will see how long they hold. On a side not I really like the DID shoulderless rims on the 250. I did not have to touch the spokes in a good year of riding, very impressed!!!!!!
 

mx547

Ortho doc's wet dream
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 24, 2000
4,787
102
for what its worth, i've had cr's as my primary race bikes since '85. i've probably raced 550-600 motos, all but one on cr's. i've never had a mechanical dnf.
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
Originally posted by bigred455
Don't forget about yz's being happy with phillips head bolts or undesireable clutch pull,or cr's paper base gaskets(Look at kawa base gasket)Cylinder lifts off clean every time) or how soft the aluminum frame is. Some little things bother riders on some models where it would not phase another rider. I CAN PICK ANY BIKE APART. :laugh:

Or how rusty and thin the steel kawi frame is with gapping welds
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
Originally posted by mx547
for what its worth, i've had cr's as my primary race bikes since '85. i've probably raced 550-600 motos, all but one on cr's. i've never had a mechanical dnf.


Yup....Same here....However, I owned a few Kawasaki's and had many day's end abruptly because of something really stupid failing..Also major mechanical issues..The bikes ran great but it was always having some kind of issue...

My experience on Hondas has been Excellent just as yours....I could go a full season on a honda...3 to 4 days of practice a week and racing 2 different classes every weekend for a year. No mechanical failures...

I can't say the same for the Kawsaki's.
 

whitesands26

Mod Ban
Nov 17, 2002
220
0
lol...I wish I was getting paid...I really do like the new KX's and I sincerely believe they are superior to the older KX models in terms of quality. But, so are the other brands bikes leaving the quality gap about the same...The 04' KX I rode was really fun to ride and it's performance was impressive.

I also believe that there are things that some things that other brands incorporate in the designs of their bikes that other manufactures could benefit from if they incorporated it in their design...Like the oil site window on the Kawasaki and the new oil filler plug on the Suzuki designed rmf/kxf engine.

However, I find that Honda has a much cleaner design than many of the other brands...The Honda is the Easiest to work on and the parts actually fit...I can't tell you how many times when I had a Kawasaki that just putting the bike back together was a nightmare because nothing would seem to line up properly....

A good friend of mine that has an MX only shop will tell you the same thing...I can't tell you how many times I've been over there and he was in the process of rebuilding a blown KX engine....I've seen alot of KX's with broken frames....I admit I haven't seen it as often since 03' but pre 03' it seemed like a common occurance...Any legit motorcycle mechanic will tell you the same thing.
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
6,450
2
whitesands i have owned KXs in 94,95, 98 03 and they were all good bikes-ive seen all brands brake and all have problems, the modern Crs are actually a major pain to work on with the compact alloy frames(try changing jetting in a 2000/2001 Cr you have to actually take the tank off).I know we all have our preferences but we shouldnt put off the guys from any of the modern brands as they really are almost equal.
 
Top Bottom