3 month old '02 kdx fouling plugs

Chief

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Damn Yankees
Aug 17, 2001
682
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Hi everyone, I'm posting this for a friend. he is having trouble posting, so I pasted his E-mail that he sent to me. I've done a few searches on this topic, so the homework is done. Anyone with similar experience would be of great help if they could share it. Chet is kinda p.o.ed right now, but I told him that 2 strokes sometimes foul plugs and I feel there is most likely a simple solution. Also, the dealer isn't gonna go too far out of their way generally. I stongly feel his fuel and oil choice and ratio will help a lot. I recommended amoco 93 and mx2t at 32:1. This combo worked wonders for my bike, which is REAL finicky. I realize they are different bikes, but still think it's worth a shot. Also going to a br7 might not hurt. Just a few thoughts. ok. here Are chet's words. I will send him a link to this post. Thanks in advance to any KDX folks who respond.

Chief

" I first started using Kawachem oil and 93 octane gas @ a mix of 3.5 ounces oil to the gallon of gas. I went through about 3 sparkplugs in about 2 weeks, fouling out oily, primarily in the first 50 yards from my home camp. The bike is still under warranty, whatever that means, so I contacted the dealer and he said try a smaller pilot jet and don't use the Kawachem oil we like to use Yamalube @ a 40:1 ratio, which is 3 ounces of oil to the gallon of gas. After trying this, I got about 30 miles of ride time and it fouled again. So now , I went with the next smaller main jet ( 158 main and the 45 pilot jet that had already been put in). I tried this and it seemed to run a little longer, maybe 50 miles or a half dozen rides, but still managed to foul out but this time while lugging around the trails. After contacting the dealer again, he said the warranty really doesn't cover much and jetting problems are kind of tough when we have no where to ride the bike for testing. Wow, these guys are really helpful. After my telling him I might try the smallest jets, he responded," yeah, why not try the smallest jets." I now have the smallest recommended main and pilot jets installed ( 155 main and 42 pilot ) and I raised the jet needle clip up a notch, thus dropping it lower in the needle jet. Right when I thought I had it licked ,you guessed it , fouled out oily plug 50 feet from camp. So, as it stands, the majority of fouling occurs @ cold start up within the first 100 yards or 2 and a half minutes of ride. Once the bike gets going, although, it really screams and runs great when it's running and I'm not pushing it. Currently I'm trying Golden Spectro @ a mix ratio of 3 ounces to the gallon of 93 octane gas and the clip on the needle is still one notch up. I went about 80 miles of hill climbing and trail riding with the same plug with my fingers crossed. By the way, I have been using the recommended NGK BR8ES and /or equivalent Champion RN3C and/or Denso W24ES/U sparkplugs since the very beginning and they all failed the same not noticing any one better than the other.

I have also cleaned an already clean air filter and changed the gear oil with PJ1 Clutch Tuner.

I don't know if this could have something to do with it and never heard of it before, along with the dealer who said,"Who really does that anyway," to the following statement in the owner's manual for break-in ------- After 12 miles of riding remove the cylinder head and cylinder and change the piston and rings. Also sand any unusual scoring in the cylinder and put a new NGK BR8ES in.

Any input on this whole scenario will be appreciated. I'm also not new to biking, for I have been riding on and off for approximately 20 years. And most bikes I've had, none be it Kaw's, have had one and only one plug in them for years. Imagine that! No kidding.

I'm also getting a little shell shocked on how to properly cold start this machine. Methods I've tried to no avail are as follows: Gas on, choke up for 30 seconds, pushed down for 10 seconds, give it two flicks of throttle to blow it out a bit and wamo, dead plug within 50 yards or less. I've tried one minute with choke up, forget it , plugs history. I've tried 10 seconds choke and 10 seconds kicked down, then a little throttle to clear it up and still - fouled plug. Although, this method does seem to yield the best results yet. Well, I'm getting tired now, so what do you all think?

P.S. The plug does seem to clean up nice after a nice column dump hill climb at wide open throttle. And slightly browned insulator and oily after lugging in the trails.

Thanks much,

Chet L.
 

WoodsRider

Sponsoring Member<BR>Club Moderator
Damn Yankees
Oct 13, 1999
2,807
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Chief - You didn't specify if the KDX is a 200 or a 220. From experience, the 200 is jetted rich from the factory with a 160 main/48 pilot. On mine, I dropped two sizes on the main, one on the pilot and dropped the needle (raised the clip) one groove for a new baseline, then fine-tuned from there. Of course I was running Golden Spectro @ 50:1 with that combination too. Never had an issue with fouling plugs.

Since your friend isn't riding his KDX WFO all the time, 32:1 and rich jetting will foul the spark plug. I'm not going to preach which oil and/or mixture to use, but you need to jet according to your fuel/oil ratio.

BTW - You missed a great ride at Paragon last weekend. ;)
 

Chief

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Damn Yankees
Aug 17, 2001
682
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Thanks Woods. Excellent Suggestions.

It's a 200.

I really regret missing Paragon twice now. (I made the first one) truth is, I'm just barely squeezing in some local riding with this summer's schedule. I did get to swim at a local reservoir on my ride Sunday, which means I probably smelled better than you guys (for a little while anyway :) )

I bet the camping was awesome.

Glad to hear you guys/gals had a great time, I'm gonna make a DRN ride as soon as I can.

Sincerely,

Joe
 
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Fred T

Mi. Trail Riders
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 23, 2001
5,272
2
Acouple thoughts:
1. Is the airbox lid removed or modified? That can help it get more air and reduce fouling plugs. It seems his problem is with the bike being cold and this might help.
2. Cold starts on 2 smokes are choke on, no throttle. Start, warm up with choke on for a few seconds then choke off and mild throttle to keep it running and get it warm. Water cooled 2 smokes tend to be cold blooded at first.
3. His jetting looks pretty good.
4. Float level may be off.
 

BRush

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 5, 2000
1,100
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3 ounces per gallon is 42.6 to 1, not 40:1. For that, use 3.2 oz per gallon. Only true maintenance Nazis follow that manual recommendation to change the rings after 12 hours of riding. The rest of us just do a top end at the end of the season. A 155 main and 42 pilot sound like it’s in the right ballpark if you are running 40:1. You don’t mention your air screw position. I find that my cold starting is sensitive to this. Too lean and it’s harder to start. Start at one 1 to 1.5 turns out and see how that works. Try a BR7ES plug. Won’t help jetting, but it may help with the fouling. I’ve had good luck with these plugs. Cold starting drill is choke on, no throttle.
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
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For future reference, he's not running 32:1. Don't know where the 3.5oz/gal idea came from, but it's a good idea to know your correct ratio number. He's @ 36.5:1 with that mix.

Dump a quart into 5 gallons and forget about it! (40:1).
****edit*****
Obviously wrong. It should be (as jayhawk sez) a pint size version of a quart...namely 16oz!
*******


Note that 3oz/gal isn't 40:1, either! When he changed from 3.5 to 3oz of oil, he made the mix RICHER...NOT LEANER. I'll bet, seeing as the whole problem being dealt with is 'mixture', he used LESS oil in an attempt to LEAN the air/fuel ratio. That's backwards.

How about this. What does 'fouled' mean? If that reference is to a heavily 4-stroking bike, that's not fouled. Seems he's 'fouling' after a choke/cold start, so I wonder. He does say 'dead plug'. Simpler things have happened.

Also, use a projected ('P') series NGK, or a fine wire 'EG' in an 8 heat range, OR go to a 7 heat range in the standard electrode 'ES' series.

Oh..and choke off ASAP. As fred said...'several seconds'. CERTAINLY not 30! If it runs with the choke off, you shoulda had it off already!

Set the AS to best throttle response. I don't see any reference to it or its adjustment. What's it set to?
 
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Braahp

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Jan 20, 2001
641
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Its a simple fix. My '01 did the same thing. I am using Amsoil at 40:1 93oct. This will make mixture slightly "richer". The fix is to go to a BR7ES or BR8EG plug. Never fouled after that. The "7" was slightly lean with my bike so I went with the "8EG" and have had the same plug in for over a year without a foul. Of course warm the bike up good before blastin' down the trails. Others will tell you the "EG" plug makes no difference but I'm here to tell you it does. it works on my bike and it will on others.
 

OLD-N-SLOW

Member
Nov 21, 2000
168
0
A quart????!!! Um....CC, you might want to check your math.
See, I really do read your posts. I know you meant a pint , just busting your chops.
Steve

Ratts he beat me to it.
 

MLEACH

Member
Mar 30, 2002
34
0
I also agree with the BR7ES. I have a 2000 KDX200,FMF PIPE AND SILENCER,AIRBOX MOD,RAD VALVE,RB CARB.No fouling plugs since BR7ES.
 

Chief

~SPONSOR~
Damn Yankees
Aug 17, 2001
682
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As I expected, you hardcore boys have a lot of great, simple fixes, and a lot of them backed up by experience, which is priceless. I Especially lean towards the plug heat range (BR7), airbox cover removal, and plug type (ev,es, eg). I've also heard from other Kaw owners that the startup drill is crucial. Also am partial to amsoil because it burns really clean in my Suzuki. I'd be buying the big jug or looking for the best price I could get. I'm gonna make sure Chet gets a look at this post. He's a great riding partner and I'd like to thank you for helping him on his way.

Ride On!!!!

Sincerely,

Joe Chief
 

canyncarvr

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Oct 14, 1999
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Any looking around on this forum will cement the idea that I am indeed a complete moron.

As you can clearly see by my caculator printout (see???..I'm holding it close!!) 640 divided by 16 is indeed 40:1. How that relates to a quart (other than being 1/2 of one ;) )I have no idea.

Yes, of course it was 16oz, not a quart.

(I should put this in a clipbook for what will obviously be future use)

Please accept my abject, complete and sincere apologies :(

**Hey..it's not MY fault. My signature appended to each and every post gives clear warning!! ;)
 
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GREENBEAN

Member
Jan 8, 2000
179
0
Well heres my 2 cents ...in my 2000 200 I use a 155 main 42 pilot airbox lid swiss cheesed.. .FMF torque w\ turbinecore2 boyessen reeds... after break in and 2 plugs at 32:1 I tried 40:1 and then 44:1 which seems to run the best.. my AS is 1/2 to 2 turns out depending on Temp and EL.. I run a BR8EVX I never fouled one yet I left one in for a year and then replaced it last Fall ... I recently loaned it to a CR250 rider who fouled his plug... it still worked and he made it back to camp riding and hillclimbing in tight trails for another hour... I tell everyone about them.. so what it is over double the cost but not worrying about it is the payoff for me... Oh Yeah I use like Golden Spectro or Maxima I think ... Always full syth for me I like the smell.. :moon:
 
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cfr1970

Sponsoring Member
Jun 27, 2002
57
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Chief,
I've got a '91 200. I run synthetic (Bell-Rey) at 50:1 with a 150 main. I replaced the plug this season for the first time in over 2 years. I also have a FMF gold pipe and an airbox with an open top and aftermarket filter. I don't know how much you're willing to do, but the 50:1 is probably a good start. I only run 87 octane (also one notch up on the needle) and have no problems.
 

kdxtaz

~SPONSOR~
Mar 29, 2002
384
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canyncarvr -
Go easy on yourself! Call it a typo. Nobody's right all the time. How would you like to be me? (wrong all the time). Go now, and put CR250 reeds in your bike. Now there's a moron! ;)
 

chadley

Member
Apr 26, 2002
1
0
Hey guys, thanks alot and I believe I got it figured out. I am now using Spectro oil at a mix of 40:1 , air screw (AS) 1and a half turns out, 155 main and a 42 pilot. I also choke it @ cold start up for < 5 sec's. then knock it down and, if need be, keep it alive with a little throttle blips and warm it up this way for 2 to 3 minutes. I haven't fouled a plug for 300 miles. GREAT!!!!!
 

23jayhawk

Sponsoring Member
Apr 30, 2002
675
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Jack, CC is a great resource & one of the key participants in this forum. He also has a helluva personality. And he is well liked - if anyone razzes him, its because of that. 'Cause you know he's gonna give it back! :)

Ken
 

lightsts

Member
Jul 8, 2002
30
0
Spent a lot of time jetting around a KDX plug fouling problem. When I changed to Motul 800 oil at 50:1 all my problems stopped, including the power valves gumming up.
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
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jayhawk & kdxjack:

I appreciate being 'caught' when I screw up. I don't want to blather out a bunch of crap. well...not TOO much crap, anyway! ;)

The 'razz' in this thread was humorous and good natured besides being absolutely correct (..pint sized quart..ha!! ).

There are examples on this forum of morons pitching a hissy fit over something they have absolutely no understanding of...THAT'S sad........still kinda funny though, in a 'what a pathetic bloke' way.

lightsts:
Plug fouling has to do with A/F mixture more than anything else. The numbers (ha! Like you can trust me on THIS!) say that changing from 40:1 to 50:1 is a 20% decrease in oil volume. That's a bunch.

The anecdotal evidence in this case isn't necessarily a good thing. It doesn't follow that a plug NOT fouling anymore because you decrease oil volume in your premix is desireable. Premix ratio is 'set' by other factors. It is a fact (2cycle engine manufacturers white papers I've read) that a 2-stroke engine makes MORE power with MORE oil in the premix, up to the point of plug failure. This given that jetting is adjusted to make up for the increasing leaning of the AF ratio when oil is added.

If I may wax philosophical (or soporific? ;) ), it's like life. Everything in balance is a good thing. :)

If you want to run 50:1 premix, go for it. IF your jetting and plug choice was correct @ 40:1 though..you wouldn't have a problem with plug fouling or gummy powervalves to start with.
 

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