Clutch questions

[mechanic]

I don't understand all this talk about using the clutch in the corners. I down shift using the clutch on the way in and then upshift with clutch on the way out. What else do you use the clutch for in the corners? What, when, and why would you "feather" a clutch in the corners?

Is it OK to shift with out the clutch? Can you upshift without the clutch under power? Can you down shift with out the clutch? How often do you not use the clutch, 25%, 50% 75%, more?

If I only use one or two fingers on the clutch lever, then I don't get full clutch level travel. You know, my fingers stop the lever from hitting the hand grips. Is that OK, to shift with one finger on the clutch lever with less than full clutch lever travel?

Thanks in advance for any help. I have gotten some great advice on my other riding questions.

 

[crkid]

You can upshift without the clutch as long as you let off the throttle. I never shift without the clutch though.
If your clutch is properly set you shouldn't have to pull it all they way back to the grips. I use my middle and ring finger to pull it. It's all a matter of preference really.
Using the clutch in corners is to keep the RPM's up so the bike won't blubber out of the turn. I'm not a good cornering rider, so someone else can explain when and where parts. Maybe I'll learn something.

 

[rc331]

Yes it is ok to shift without the clutch, you really don't need the full lever travel to shift with the clutch. I shift with the clutch (two fingers) off the starting line so i can hold the throttle wide open and still shift, as opposed to having to release the throttle a bit to shift without. Feathering the clutch out of corners allows you to stay in a higher gear and get the engine into it's powerband which gives you much more drive and takes less time than shifting 1-2-3 it also makes the power delivery more controllable.

I dont know if this really explains it well enough or not (writing is not my strongest point) but hope this helps. :cool:

 

[jmics19067]

I dont use the clutch to shift I use it so I dont have to shift. To use the clutch or not while shifting I dont know which way is faster but stick with either way that makes you faster. The idea of using the clutch in turns is so that you dont have to shift in the middle of the turn or right after it while you are still getting setup to head down the next straight. Kinda like starting out from a stop in second gear instead of first.

 

[Boozer]

if you do a search, you will find plenty of information on this subject. personally, i believe that if you are a fully sponsored rider, you can shift all you like without the clutch, but if you are not sponsored, use the clutch when shifting.
of course i have no proof saying clutchless shifting will damage your gearbox, but in theory i think it might. some may argue that truck drivers shift without the clutch, and that is true, but you may also find their gearboxes run straight cut gears designed for such activities, as opposed to syncro-mesh boxes found in cars and bikes. each to their own.

learning to 'feather' the clutch is probaly the best traction aid you can put on your bike (and the cheapest!). on loose exits of a corner, it is no good winding on the throttle if the rear wheel starts to spin like crazy. no traction also means no drive, so pulling in the clutch lets you instantly control the rear wheel without backing off the gas. too much spin? pull the clutch in slightly until maximum drive is found.

jmics make a good point of using the clutch to keep the engine in the 'power band'. if your corner has plenty of traction, you can usually nail the gas right after the apex, but what if you are caught in a high gear? you can let the torque of the engine pull you through but if you ride a 125 you might be in for a wait. feathering the clutch here lets you bring the engine into the power band instantly (much faster and better than changing down). feather the clutch out and before you know it you will be gone like a missile! this is the reason why the pro 125 riders are masters at clutch control.

 

[Anssi]

as opposed to syncro-mesh boxes found in cars and bikes. each to their own. [/B]

Dude, I think MX transmissions are crashboxes in the finest tradition.

 

[FDR492]

When coming out of the gates , i start in first gear because otherwise my bike bogs. When im shifting taking off from the start is it better to let of the throttle when i pull in the clutch to shift or just continue to do what i do (keep on the throttle even when i pull in the clutch to shift [to keep the RPMS decently high]) ? Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[FDR492]

Also....i have the same problem. All my riding buddies pick on my for using 3 or 4 fingers on the clutch when i pull it in because otherwise i dont get a full clutch pull. I really ought to get into the habit of pulling with one or two fingers before i hit some of these tracks with nasty whoops cause i will eat **** hardcore. Any ideas of how i can get a full pull even using one or two fingers? Should i loosen or tighten my barrel?

 

[GMX]

Originally posted by crkid

If your clutch is properly set you shouldn't have to pull it all they way back to the grips. I use my middle and ring finger to pull it. It's all a matter of preference really.

 

[Chief]

Mechanic,

I wanted to just use my index and middle finger, but had a very hard time and could not adjust the clutch properly. One day I fell down on my left side and broke the lever about 1/2 length. I took it home, filed the raw edge, and moved it towards the center of the bars about another 1/2 inch. For me, the shorter lever was the perfect solution.

Now I can only reach it with 2 fingers and it never hits the other 2. I am basically forced to ride this way all the time and I prefer it. Riding this way has quickly become natural.

Experienced mechanics will tell you that downshifting w/out the clutch is ok, but upshifting w/out it puts more wear on the drive train. I always use the clutch to upshift, although on my 6 speed 125, I almost never did. It was just too fast and tempting not to. On my 250 I have been trying to make myself downshift without the clutch more, but old habits die hard.

I consider myself a casual rider, so speed is not of the utmost importance to me, although feathering the clutch is often a must in some of the tightwoods sections I ride.

Chief

 

[Moto Squid]

My clutch use to to upshift depends on the situation. If it's a tight corner with a huge jump that gear gets slammed as fast as I can, which means no clutch. Just haulin down a straight I'll slip the clutch a bit, but never fully pull it in. I half use the clutch for down shifting because the clutch is slipping some to allow the rear tire to chatter.

 

[Birken Vogt]

My personal preference is to not use the clutch on my CR because the tighter gear spacing makes it not so "bangey" but I do on my XR. However if in sand with the CR I will sometimes use the clutch if I want to stay on the power while shifting, because normally I back off the throttle quickly to shift and that does weird things in the sand. Anssi is right, motorcycle transmissions have no synchros, they just shift by banging the dog teeth into one another and forcing into the next gear.

That being said I am more of a mechanic than a good rider and like any mechanic I can't stand to abuse equipment when operating it, and also am really grumpy when it comes time to actually do mechanic work, so I operate the clutch on a motorcycle much the same as I would on a 15-speed dump truck, that is to say, not ever slipping it under power except to start moving and for a very short period even then. I am sure that makes me a very spodely rider.

 

[jmics19067]

so I operate the clutch on a motorcycle much the same as I would on a 15-speed dump truck, that is to say, not ever slipping it under power except to start moving and for a very short

although slipping the clutch does produce more wear ,the wet clutch in motorcycles, forklifts and such are designed to help keep the abuse to a minimum. I would never suggest slipping the clutch on a vehicle that is dry

 

[rc331]

Originally posted by Moto Squid
Just haulin down a straight I'll slip the clutch a bit, but never fully pull it in.

I must be missing something here.....why would you slip the clutch down a straight ? :confused:

 

[Birken Vogt]

You know you are right about the clutch being capable of taking this abuse, I have a tractor with a wet clutch too. But therein lies my problem, I spend way too much time on trucks and tractors and I do not seem to have a dual-mode brain so I am really only able to contain one clutch strategy.

That being said, both my main bikes have this neat second-clutch type feature where the slippage point is between the tire and ground. It is a second function of the twisty control on the right. Unfortunately the friction surfaces here wear all too fast, and visibly, too. My XR200 does not seem to have this feature.

 

[jmics19067]

You know you are right about the clutch being capable of taking this abuse, I have a tractor with a wet clutch too. But therein lies my problem, I spend way too much time on trucks and tractors and I do not seem to have a dual-mode brain so I am really only able to contain one clutch strategy.

:) :) I always found that if I get my rush of speed on my bike on a track I would drive slower/safer on the streets in my car or truck. But now that I think of it the way people drive around here maybe I should go into the one mindset also :) :)

 

[High Lord Gomer]

Originally posted by FDR492
When coming out of the gates , i start in first gear because otherwise my bike bogs. When im shifting taking off from the start is it better to let of the throttle when i pull in the clutch to shift or just continue to do what i do (keep on the throttle even when i pull in the clutch to shift [to keep the RPMS decently high]) ? Any ideas?
Thanks

What bike are you riding and how much do you weigh? A large person on a 125 might need to start in 1st, while a smaller (or more capable) rider on a 500 can start in 3rd.

On starts and long or uphill straights I prefer to leave the throttle on and tap the clutch while upshifting. Some bikes won't do this consistently. My 90 YZ250 wouldn't shift under power and my 95 YZ250 would only do it part of the time. if your bike can do it and you can do it, I think it is much faster.

 

[FDR492]

2000 kx 125 (6 gears) uhh im about 5'9" 175

 

[Zenith]

You can carry much more speed through a corner if you go into it in a high gear and slip the clutch to keep the bike revving. Yes this will burn your clutch out quicker(although you'll still get years out of it) but if you are racing MX and you are perfectly prepared to spend $200 on an FMF system for the tiny gain you get from one, why not be willing to spend an extra $40 for clutch plates every few years?
Shifting with out the clutch seems to be a wildly debated point but everybody I know does it with no gear box problems so I will continue. It depends on the bike but on mine I hold the throttle wide open and shift, no clutch, no letting off the throttle. This works every time with no scrunching or forcing it. This is power shifting and what is recommended in the Pro MX riding techniques book from Eric Gorrs website, especially for the start straight. I'm open to opinions about it but I will continue to power shift because there is a lot of speed to be gained by it, which you need on a 125...


Philip,

 

[cr25096er]

on my cr250 the clutch starts pulling real soon. how can i adjust it so it grabs later so i can use 2 fingers to pull it?

 

[High Lord Gomer]

Originally posted by cr25096er
on my cr250 the clutch starts pulling real soon. how can i adjust it so it grabs later so i can use 2 fingers to pull it?

There is an adjustment at the perch (where the cable attaches to the perch) and another on the cable (just behind the top of the number plate) that allows you to effectively lengthen the outer sheath of the cable.

 

[dell30rb]

On my 80 (very pipey) the use of the clutch is necessary almost everywhere.

As for the question on slipping on straights, the point of that is to keep the bike in the powerband the entire time, and you may not have to do this much if you have a bike with alot of bottom end, but on the 80, it is impossible to get by without slipping it, even though it does have a close-ratio 6 speed.

The clutch makes it possible to go into a corner in 3rd, and come out in 3rd. Having the higher gear keeps wheelspin to a minimum, and you dont loose drive by having to shift.

I dont use the clutch to do most of my shifting, but my bike will not power shift very well, so I have to let off the throttle a bit.

 

[cr25096er]

i had my clutch so i could use 2 fingers to pull it in.(middle n index) but when i got home i readjusted it so it had a nickle play in it at the perch. what do u guies have for free play?

 

[Mike198]

Anyone try using the shorty levers? how do they work with 2 fingers?

 

[IrishEKU]

cr25096er
Is on the $ with that suggestion! When mine was adjusted the same way I got TONS! of grab!!!!!!