Confused Indy SX fans & Langston a quitter?
- Thread starter nikki
- Start date
Langston tried to get the bike into neutral with his hand several times after the crash. When they took the bike away they pushed it with the rear locked up. It may have been more than just the clutch lever.
Lighten up on the booing. It's all part of the show. The crowd was definitely anti-Carmichael, but from the stands it looked like he took Pastrana out.
Maybe the cheers for DV make up for the booing earlier. I remember lots of booing for JMBayle at Southwick when he was racing. I'm not a big fan of the French riders. I've been to France and I'm confident they would not treat American riders with much more respect.
It's entertainment try and enjoy the show.
Lighten up on the booing. It's all part of the show. The crowd was definitely anti-Carmichael, but from the stands it looked like he took Pastrana out.
Maybe the cheers for DV make up for the booing earlier. I remember lots of booing for JMBayle at Southwick when he was racing. I'm not a big fan of the French riders. I've been to France and I'm confident they would not treat American riders with much more respect.
It's entertainment try and enjoy the show.
HiG4s
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- Mar 7, 2001
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Langston is one of my favorite racers since the interview where he told of his first bike, the one his mom said he couldn't have. He went to look at a used 50, rode it around the yard and that was it. They couldn't pry him off it. He said his dad loaded it in the back of the truck and he stayed on it for the drive home. I hope there was more to it than just a broken clutch.
DV has been a favorite since the time he auctioned off autographed jerseys to help another racer in the hospital. He seems like a real class act, too bad so many Americans take a dislike to anyone with a French accent.
Travis just seems like a great kid. that is who I'm usually cheering for. Of course if anyone decent would ride a Husqvarna I would cheer for them too. And I know Travis has gone out of his way to visit other young racers that were hurt and in the hospital a couple of times at least.
On the last ESPN2 telecast, the said Bubba dedicates his races to a friend that is paralyzed from a crash, and that's cool.
You never seem to hear anything like that when it comes to RC, still I don't dislike him and think his bad rep it over done. I'm also glad to hear the RC/TP incident appears to have actually been just racing and not intentional.
DV has been a favorite since the time he auctioned off autographed jerseys to help another racer in the hospital. He seems like a real class act, too bad so many Americans take a dislike to anyone with a French accent.
Travis just seems like a great kid. that is who I'm usually cheering for. Of course if anyone decent would ride a Husqvarna I would cheer for them too. And I know Travis has gone out of his way to visit other young racers that were hurt and in the hospital a couple of times at least.
On the last ESPN2 telecast, the said Bubba dedicates his races to a friend that is paralyzed from a crash, and that's cool.
You never seem to hear anything like that when it comes to RC, still I don't dislike him and think his bad rep it over done. I'm also glad to hear the RC/TP incident appears to have actually been just racing and not intentional.
Nikki
Hey Nikki I think the fans were booing because most of them felt RC took out Pastrana, and the fantastic 12 or 13 lap battle that had been going on was Over in an instant, Pastrana had managed to pass RC without a hitch earlier in the race, Maybe RC could have waited for a better time maybe not, I think they cheered D.V, not because he won, but because he beat RC, Most people don't like D.V. because they can't understand a thing he says during his interviews. That's my take on the whole thing, we were there on our feet until pastrana went down, then we kinda figured the excitement was over, very dissapointing. Also during the race Pastrana went up into the stands to talk to his fans and some girls holding a sign, I think 80% of that crowd wanted to see him win that night.
Hey Nikki I think the fans were booing because most of them felt RC took out Pastrana, and the fantastic 12 or 13 lap battle that had been going on was Over in an instant, Pastrana had managed to pass RC without a hitch earlier in the race, Maybe RC could have waited for a better time maybe not, I think they cheered D.V, not because he won, but because he beat RC, Most people don't like D.V. because they can't understand a thing he says during his interviews. That's my take on the whole thing, we were there on our feet until pastrana went down, then we kinda figured the excitement was over, very dissapointing. Also during the race Pastrana went up into the stands to talk to his fans and some girls holding a sign, I think 80% of that crowd wanted to see him win that night.
Looked at Grant's bike in the pits after the race. Grant's clutch was broke at the perch. The shift lever appeared bent as well.
As for Pingree's bike seizing, it was linked to the piston KTM was using. They have replaced it and have gone to a new piston in all the bikes.
As for Pingree's bike seizing, it was linked to the piston KTM was using. They have replaced it and have gone to a new piston in all the bikes.
I don't think you thought this one through nikki, you asked why wouldn't Langston at least try and finish the race and get some points? I think he is smarter than you all realise. If you have a legit chance at the title why would you screw it up by trying to ride a SUPERCROSS track without a clutch? you run the risk of ether casing every gap or getting landed on, I don't know if any of you have ever been landed on, but it hurts like hell!!!:scream: Also, have you ever walked a sx track? like someone else said in this thread, a 125 without a clutch is useless (thats why in every picture of langston, brown, reed, and (almost every other top rider) you will see one finger on the clutch) I think everyone needs to stop dogging on the top guns, if they're sooo wise and know sooo much why aren't they racing the circuit?
- Feb 9, 2000
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Good point Josh, I was thinking the same thing, besides being a danger to others you are putting yourself at great risk.
Yeah, maybe at the Nationals Grant could have had another wheel on in minutes, who knows, if Brown had crashed hard, it would have made for a wild ending, still the result remains the same. Brown 125 MX National champ and that's all that matters, Grant couldn't have done a thing to stop that.
As it is, it is the first race of the season, why take chances, if it was the last race, and he needed the points, I am sure he would do all it takes to finish.
To race last year with injuries, and put up a great fight for the title, and only to lose it through bad luck, not error, says a lot about his determination and riding ability. Keep in mind it was his Rookie MX season in the USA.
I think he can be very proud of his achievements so far, and no he is not 23, only just turned 19, was world 125 champ at 17 ?
Yes, Bubba is good, and I think Langston is right, when he says if Stewart was in the east this year, he would be in for a very tough season. I can only imagine a team squeeze involving Brown and Langston, the others can consider themselves lucky that he went out so early in Indy.
BTW, his spectacular crash was in Houston, I think he learned a valuable lesson there, which showed in the Dallas win and the outdoor nationals. If he stays healthy, and his bike keeps going, he has a very good shot at the SX and MX titles this year.
I can bet when Stewart watched the Nationals last year he probably thought when watching Brown and Langston in action 'holy crap, those guy are wild' - Take nothing away from the top dogs, they are all very good riders, pity about this east/west thing I would like to have seen a baptism by fire for the young Stewart, so far he has had it all his own way. Can't wait for the nationals, this is where they are all going to let it hang out. Pastrana can consider himself lucky he is in the 250 class (just kidding) :p
Yeah, maybe at the Nationals Grant could have had another wheel on in minutes, who knows, if Brown had crashed hard, it would have made for a wild ending, still the result remains the same. Brown 125 MX National champ and that's all that matters, Grant couldn't have done a thing to stop that.
As it is, it is the first race of the season, why take chances, if it was the last race, and he needed the points, I am sure he would do all it takes to finish.
To race last year with injuries, and put up a great fight for the title, and only to lose it through bad luck, not error, says a lot about his determination and riding ability. Keep in mind it was his Rookie MX season in the USA.
I think he can be very proud of his achievements so far, and no he is not 23, only just turned 19, was world 125 champ at 17 ?
Yes, Bubba is good, and I think Langston is right, when he says if Stewart was in the east this year, he would be in for a very tough season. I can only imagine a team squeeze involving Brown and Langston, the others can consider themselves lucky that he went out so early in Indy.
BTW, his spectacular crash was in Houston, I think he learned a valuable lesson there, which showed in the Dallas win and the outdoor nationals. If he stays healthy, and his bike keeps going, he has a very good shot at the SX and MX titles this year.
I can bet when Stewart watched the Nationals last year he probably thought when watching Brown and Langston in action 'holy crap, those guy are wild' - Take nothing away from the top dogs, they are all very good riders, pity about this east/west thing I would like to have seen a baptism by fire for the young Stewart, so far he has had it all his own way. Can't wait for the nationals, this is where they are all going to let it hang out. Pastrana can consider himself lucky he is in the 250 class (just kidding) :p
Timr
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- Jul 26, 1999
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Just a little counterpoint here. I was at the Atlanta Supercross last year. Travis got hung up with another rider on the long start straight and flipped end over end off of the track. His RM 125 had the clutch lever broken off. Travis was also in last place! He got up and finished the entire race with a broken clutch. The only thing on the track that he didn't do was the two tripples. He doubled + singled them on every lap. Travis finished the race in the top 10.
I'm not saying what Langston should've done. I'm just pointing out that there is one person who can race an entire supercross main on a 125 with no clutch.
Ultimately, points are points, and a half dozen points could be the difference in the championship at the end of the season.
nikki
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- Apr 21, 2000
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Thanks for that story on Travis, Timr!! I remember hearing about that... just didn't know the specifics. It is possible.
And like I said earlier only 16 of the 22 125 riders ever completed all 15 laps of the main. There were 4 DNF's all together. I was just a little disappointed that he didn't even try. I guess I believe in doing all you can to finish the best you can.
Don't get me wrong - I understand that it's nearly impossible to ride a 125 SX without a clutch and it may be dangerous and unsafe to a small extent (injured riders don't find it too difficult to put around a few laps, stay outta the way, and take a checkered flag), but my point is that it can be done. And I have heard that the shifter was bent a little but still worked (the question of getting the bike in neutral to start it).
I myself broke a clutch lever off in my very first Loretta Lynn's Motocross Amateur National Moto and was totally bummed. It was about 3 laps in of about an 8 lap race. I was pissed and gave up. Then I pushed my bike off the track, started it, and rode off to the pits and took a DNF because I though "screw this - I can't ride it". That was one of the biggest mistakes I have EVER made in my racing career. Placed in the 20's the 2nd and 3rd moto but it was too late (gate of 42). :mad:
And like I said earlier only 16 of the 22 125 riders ever completed all 15 laps of the main. There were 4 DNF's all together. I was just a little disappointed that he didn't even try. I guess I believe in doing all you can to finish the best you can.
Don't get me wrong - I understand that it's nearly impossible to ride a 125 SX without a clutch and it may be dangerous and unsafe to a small extent (injured riders don't find it too difficult to put around a few laps, stay outta the way, and take a checkered flag), but my point is that it can be done. And I have heard that the shifter was bent a little but still worked (the question of getting the bike in neutral to start it).
I myself broke a clutch lever off in my very first Loretta Lynn's Motocross Amateur National Moto and was totally bummed. It was about 3 laps in of about an 8 lap race. I was pissed and gave up. Then I pushed my bike off the track, started it, and rode off to the pits and took a DNF because I though "screw this - I can't ride it". That was one of the biggest mistakes I have EVER made in my racing career. Placed in the 20's the 2nd and 3rd moto but it was too late (gate of 42). :mad:
There is no way Langston could have SAFELY finished that race w/o a clutch. The track was very technical and all it takes is to short one triple to have someone land on your head. Just ask Justin Smith or Bobby Bonds. A Pro SX is no place to be limping your wounded bike around. In fact, I believe the AMA should make it mandatory to red flag damaged bikes and riders when they are not up to speed. SX is dangerous enough already.
- Feb 9, 2000
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You make some good points Nikki, if Grant could have continued, why did he not !?, 12 laps to go, maybe he could have done something, maybe the bike was toast, maybe the points at the end of the season will be the difference.
Maybe it also goes to state of mind, I have known riders who will call it quits when something breaks, myself I am usually gung ho, and will keep going to the end. Another guy I know landed badly, bumped himself, and just pulled off, refusing to race any further, his focus and state of mind was so whacked he had no desire to finish.
I think much of what you are feeling right now relates to that LL ride when you pulled out, you are still kicking yourself or that. Maybe Grant will be kicking himself at seasons end for the very same reason.
Still, I don't think Grant is a quitter, he proved that last season, racing with a separated shoulder and coming so close to winning proves this, the fact that he lost, only proves that he is human. he tried, he failed, he will try again. A rookie at the top of the game after only one season is pretty impressive stuff if you ask me !
Maybe it also goes to state of mind, I have known riders who will call it quits when something breaks, myself I am usually gung ho, and will keep going to the end. Another guy I know landed badly, bumped himself, and just pulled off, refusing to race any further, his focus and state of mind was so whacked he had no desire to finish.
I think much of what you are feeling right now relates to that LL ride when you pulled out, you are still kicking yourself or that. Maybe Grant will be kicking himself at seasons end for the very same reason.
Still, I don't think Grant is a quitter, he proved that last season, racing with a separated shoulder and coming so close to winning proves this, the fact that he lost, only proves that he is human. he tried, he failed, he will try again. A rookie at the top of the game after only one season is pretty impressive stuff if you ask me !
couple thoughts...
1. KTM should think about doing some crash testing... as it looks right now, a 10 dollar clutch lever may have cost them the 125 East crown... what a shame... i know you can't make levers bulletproof, but they can sure try.... at least beef up that level at the perch, so it breaks a bit farther to the outside...
2. I'm a tiddler rider... always have been, always will be.... there isn't a ton of shifting on an SX track (some of the 250 guys never leave 2kd an entire race, most 125 guys only hit third right before the two triples and in the whoops)... and there isn't typically a lot of clutch fanning either (it's only "Really" needed once a lap on the tightest corner, and through the whoops).... Langston could have easily pulled a top ten, even without a clutch.... i'm really just guessing, but i highly doubt he would have lost more than 3 seconds a lap....
3. If Langston DNF's the first round, he basically has ZERO chance at the title... the 125 regional series just aren't long enough to make up 25 points....
4. like David Bailey has said many times, Every single point matters.... the 125 E title may come down to a 5 point battle at the last race... (though i REALLY doubt it... read- Reed is gonna smoke'em) if Grant loses by 5 points, he will realize that he should have not quit at the first round... GRANT will finally realize that even one point is worth winning at any cost..
Langston is already talking about racing 250's next year.... and about the bidding war for his services next season... well, he's already totally blown half his 02' season...
he has never won a title in America (ring a bell?? like Bashen Telly, Cobra, Pichon, Chico, Ect)... and he's going to have a LOT more competition outdoors than he thinks...
it's one thing to be confident... but another to be overly cocky...
maybe he should quit thinking about how good he is, and more about winning some races..
1. KTM should think about doing some crash testing... as it looks right now, a 10 dollar clutch lever may have cost them the 125 East crown... what a shame... i know you can't make levers bulletproof, but they can sure try.... at least beef up that level at the perch, so it breaks a bit farther to the outside...
2. I'm a tiddler rider... always have been, always will be.... there isn't a ton of shifting on an SX track (some of the 250 guys never leave 2kd an entire race, most 125 guys only hit third right before the two triples and in the whoops)... and there isn't typically a lot of clutch fanning either (it's only "Really" needed once a lap on the tightest corner, and through the whoops).... Langston could have easily pulled a top ten, even without a clutch.... i'm really just guessing, but i highly doubt he would have lost more than 3 seconds a lap....
3. If Langston DNF's the first round, he basically has ZERO chance at the title... the 125 regional series just aren't long enough to make up 25 points....
4. like David Bailey has said many times, Every single point matters.... the 125 E title may come down to a 5 point battle at the last race... (though i REALLY doubt it... read- Reed is gonna smoke'em) if Grant loses by 5 points, he will realize that he should have not quit at the first round... GRANT will finally realize that even one point is worth winning at any cost..
Langston is already talking about racing 250's next year.... and about the bidding war for his services next season... well, he's already totally blown half his 02' season...
he has never won a title in America (ring a bell?? like Bashen Telly, Cobra, Pichon, Chico, Ect)... and he's going to have a LOT more competition outdoors than he thinks...
it's one thing to be confident... but another to be overly cocky...
maybe he should quit thinking about how good he is, and more about winning some races..
Langston DID just quit!!!
I was in the pits after the race talking with Andrew Langston (mechanic/uncle). He was PISSED! I don't remember his exact statement, but, it was something like, "Grant tried to pass everyone on the first few laps, then when he got out of control and fell, he broke the clutch lever. Then, he just gave up...". The bike was 100% ok, minus the clutch lever. I think Grant was just excited being the first round and all, and freaked out when he couldn't find neutral. The bike was still in gear when they pushed it off the track. moments later his mechanic put it in neutral and pushed it back to the pits. I agree with those that think he should have rode it out and salvaged a few points. like nikki said, 4 guys dnf'd so langston could have beat them by just rolling everything. I am not saying he would have been able to do everything the top guys were doing with no clutch, but he would have definitely finished better than 22nd. Even Grant said, "i guess i should have tried to salvage some points...". But heck, he's a kid, he will make mistakes, and the racing will be unreal from here on out...
I was in the pits after the race talking with Andrew Langston (mechanic/uncle). He was PISSED! I don't remember his exact statement, but, it was something like, "Grant tried to pass everyone on the first few laps, then when he got out of control and fell, he broke the clutch lever. Then, he just gave up...". The bike was 100% ok, minus the clutch lever. I think Grant was just excited being the first round and all, and freaked out when he couldn't find neutral. The bike was still in gear when they pushed it off the track. moments later his mechanic put it in neutral and pushed it back to the pits. I agree with those that think he should have rode it out and salvaged a few points. like nikki said, 4 guys dnf'd so langston could have beat them by just rolling everything. I am not saying he would have been able to do everything the top guys were doing with no clutch, but he would have definitely finished better than 22nd. Even Grant said, "i guess i should have tried to salvage some points...". But heck, he's a kid, he will make mistakes, and the racing will be unreal from here on out...
nikki
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- Apr 21, 2000
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WOW! Well put FLYBOY!
cp380sx - about the safety thing... there were only 2 triples and the majority of the riders only doubled the one that Bryne went down on. Hell... you were only allowed to roll it 10 of the 13 laps Langston had left because of Bryne. And the triples are wide enough in SX so you can double on the right and leave the triples to the middle lines. And the pack gets really spread out after a few laps, too... especially in the 10-15 rider slots. I agree though that SX is dangerous to begin with - though and would hate to see anything happen. But I really don't think Langston went back to the pits over safety reasons.
cp380sx - about the safety thing... there were only 2 triples and the majority of the riders only doubled the one that Bryne went down on. Hell... you were only allowed to roll it 10 of the 13 laps Langston had left because of Bryne. And the triples are wide enough in SX so you can double on the right and leave the triples to the middle lines. And the pack gets really spread out after a few laps, too... especially in the 10-15 rider slots. I agree though that SX is dangerous to begin with - though and would hate to see anything happen. But I really don't think Langston went back to the pits over safety reasons.
nikki
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- Apr 21, 2000
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And on clutch levers - Travis has an ultra thick one hiding under those handguards of his. I'm pretty sure it's the "ARC" lever that just bends the other way instead of breaking off. The handguards help some, too (trust me... i know from experience :confused: )
- Feb 9, 2000
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A very one sided take on the situation eh ? He has never won a title in America ! yeah, like he was the worst guy at the Nationals last year. Brown only won because the KTM failed, now you wish to knock on the guy, give me a break. As I see it, none of these guys have won a world title besides Langston. Last seasons MX was all about Langston, and it was his first season, pretty convincing stuff if you ask me. BTW, he was the first rider to ever win an SX race on a KTM !
He has blown what ?, this is the first race of the SX season, there is a long way to go before anyone holds up the SX East title, or MX national title.
BTW, before 2001, there were very few Americans who had ever heard about Grant Langston, the boy has come a long way in one year, and at 19 probably has many good years ahead of him.
If this 1 DNF puts him out of the championship let it be a lesson to him, maybe next time he will finish !
Another thing to keep in mind Langston is not a seasoned SX racer, he only won one race last year, I can remember Greg Albertyn who had 3 world championship titles, and could never make the transition to SX (he did manage to win the 2000 250 National title before retiring)
Langston, I like his attitude, it is very positive, he is confident, is working hard. If I was in his shoes I'd be a bit more reserved and let my riding do the talking, this is his style, let him go at it !
Well, everyone here has the benefit of hindsight. What one should have done is a lot easier to answer than what one should do in the heat of the moment. Maybe the rear wheel debacle last year is still fresh in his mind so when his bike was broken this time he just said f-it to himself.
One thing is for sure is we'll see him many more times in the winner's circle.
One thing is for sure is we'll see him many more times in the winner's circle.
Timr
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I agree with Nikki. I think a rider of Grant Langston's caliber should be able to ride safely and quickly around the SX track with no clutch. Now, if he didn't want to then so be it. He'll suffer the consequences at the end of the season when somebody else wins the title.
Like I said before, I saw TP race with no clutch, and he wasn't just put putting around the edge of the track. He was charging hard through the whoops, jumping most of the jumps and passing lots of guys in the process.
Maybe Grant's not mature enough or experienced enough to realize what he could've done in that situation.
Like Nikki said. I too have quit races before, and two of them I regret. I could've made it to the finish and had a decent result.
Grant's an emotional guy. I'm sure he was mad, and fed up. I'm also sure that he'll learn from this experience.
As far as having spares available at the side of the track goes, does anyone remember Kevin Windham's pit stop for a new pipe at an outdoor National a few years ago? It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. KW was riding for Yamaha at the time. He was involved in a large 1st turn pile up. The crash smashed his pipe so severly that the bike would hardly run. A lap and half later, he pulled into the mechanics are and the three Yamaha guys changed the pipe in about 45 seconds. One guy had these really thick gloves on and after another tech pulled the two springs, he grabbed the hot pipe and yanked it off. Windham kicked the bike over and took off. I don't think he even got lapped in the process.
Now I know that things that can be accomplished in an outdoor MX are not the sames as a short 15 lap main on a short SX track. I just wanted to point out that some teams are better prepaired for certain contingencies than others. Is it possible to swap out a wheel in the middle of a moto? I think that it is.
Like I said before, I saw TP race with no clutch, and he wasn't just put putting around the edge of the track. He was charging hard through the whoops, jumping most of the jumps and passing lots of guys in the process.
Maybe Grant's not mature enough or experienced enough to realize what he could've done in that situation.
Like Nikki said. I too have quit races before, and two of them I regret. I could've made it to the finish and had a decent result.
Grant's an emotional guy. I'm sure he was mad, and fed up. I'm also sure that he'll learn from this experience.
As far as having spares available at the side of the track goes, does anyone remember Kevin Windham's pit stop for a new pipe at an outdoor National a few years ago? It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. KW was riding for Yamaha at the time. He was involved in a large 1st turn pile up. The crash smashed his pipe so severly that the bike would hardly run. A lap and half later, he pulled into the mechanics are and the three Yamaha guys changed the pipe in about 45 seconds. One guy had these really thick gloves on and after another tech pulled the two springs, he grabbed the hot pipe and yanked it off. Windham kicked the bike over and took off. I don't think he even got lapped in the process.
Now I know that things that can be accomplished in an outdoor MX are not the sames as a short 15 lap main on a short SX track. I just wanted to point out that some teams are better prepaired for certain contingencies than others. Is it possible to swap out a wheel in the middle of a moto? I think that it is.
- Feb 9, 2000
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Today I am waving the flag proudly ! :)
Yup, have to agree with that, and I will be the first to admit that this guy needs to settle down and stop being so emmotional. Also, let his riding do the talking.
BTW, I thought you were a fan Okie :confused:
