Does anybody else think that this bike is going to be all hype. I see the production model doing fairly well, but who in their right mind thinks they are going to be getting the same bike Larocco isn riding. I think that a lot of people are going to be disappointed, not only in how long they waited for the bike, but what they actually get.:( I'm sorry but I think a lot of people are going to wish they had gone with a proven bike, like the yz or ktm, after they get their hands on the new crf450f. Anybody feel the same way?
cr450 all hype
- Thread starter jayrome
- Start date
I don't think so.
Honda as at least as big as R&D budget as Yamaha, and they have the YZ 426 to start with. Yamaha had to build the YZ from scratch. Certainly the Euro four strokes were competition for Yamaha, but given how much more the Husky's and Husabergs were in the mid 90's, Yamaha basically had no one to compare a bike to in their targeted price range.
If no where else, Honda will probably beat Yamaha in the weight department. I am sure the YZF's are all they are cracked up to be, and that includes being a little bit overweight.
I am sure Honda's bike will perform very well.
Greg M
Honda as at least as big as R&D budget as Yamaha, and they have the YZ 426 to start with. Yamaha had to build the YZ from scratch. Certainly the Euro four strokes were competition for Yamaha, but given how much more the Husky's and Husabergs were in the mid 90's, Yamaha basically had no one to compare a bike to in their targeted price range.
If no where else, Honda will probably beat Yamaha in the weight department. I am sure the YZF's are all they are cracked up to be, and that includes being a little bit overweight.
I am sure Honda's bike will perform very well.
Greg M
MoO_coW
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- Jul 14, 2000
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snaggleXR4
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Hey,
Nobody will ever know until people have the bikes for a bit. I believe the bike will have it's little quirks to work through, but overall I think it will be an awesome bike with great potential. Honda definitely knows how to build a powerful and reliable 4-stroke. I'm excited not for the CRF, but for the updates it will bring to their XR line, and the changes it represents for the future. All new tech. is surrounded by, many times, unfounded hype. Everybody has their favorite 'team' and are always naysayers for the competition.
I'm a believer in Honda, and I think they will come through. Keep on thumpin'!
No matter which bike you are on.
Nobody will ever know until people have the bikes for a bit. I believe the bike will have it's little quirks to work through, but overall I think it will be an awesome bike with great potential. Honda definitely knows how to build a powerful and reliable 4-stroke. I'm excited not for the CRF, but for the updates it will bring to their XR line, and the changes it represents for the future. All new tech. is surrounded by, many times, unfounded hype. Everybody has their favorite 'team' and are always naysayers for the competition.
I'm a believer in Honda, and I think they will come through. Keep on thumpin'!
No matter which bike you are on.
Tony Williams
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- Mar 23, 2000
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Facts in the Hype
Well, there seems to be some objective comments in all the hype:
>>>> Weighing in with no gas a full 13 pounds lighter than a '01 YZ426F <<<<
Well, there seems to be some objective comments in all the hype:
>>>> Weighing in with no gas a full 13 pounds lighter than a '01 YZ426F <<<<
Just becuase you see the word aluminum doesnt mean its going to be very light, in order to make that alloy frame strong enough to handle the high stess loads of racing its going to be a heavy gauge material. Aluminum dosent have the memory or stretch of steel so to compensate the material must be thicker. A lighter weight gauge thin walled steel frame can be used to keep the weight down and still be strong enough to handle the stress. Do you actually think that the other brands havent tried using aluminum, 4130 chromally is still the best frame material unless you race XC mountain bike's.
xrsforever
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- Nov 2, 2000
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Jayrome let me answer your question directly. No.
B
biglou
I think the point being made was fairly simple: If a material is lighter, but not as strong, it will take more of that material to do the basic job of its heavier counterpart. Thus making the weight savings of the lighter material a non-issue. Also, just as with mountain bikes, each different material will have its own ride characteristics, how it feels to the rider.
I'm betting the CRF will be a great bike. It won't be THE bike for everyone, of course. But there will be a faithful following. I'm sure that all motorcycle manufacturers try to put out the best product they can within the limits of safety, reliability, liabillity and, yes, even budget constraints. They gotta make some money and keep the price reasonable.:)
AND, marketing hype is what sells products!:D
I'm betting the CRF will be a great bike. It won't be THE bike for everyone, of course. But there will be a faithful following. I'm sure that all motorcycle manufacturers try to put out the best product they can within the limits of safety, reliability, liabillity and, yes, even budget constraints. They gotta make some money and keep the price reasonable.:)
AND, marketing hype is what sells products!:D
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MoO_coW
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the reason Honda went to the aluminum frame wasn't for weight savings, Honda has found a lot of other ways to save weight. and this year the aluminum frame (3rd generation) is suppose to be awesome, I've never heard anyone say they didn't like a Honda (2001) because of the frame and this year it is even better.
This is what that article had to say
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I doubt the talk about the Honda will be ALL hype..there will be SOME hype as that is the way of the marketing world. By bet is this new Honda will be at least a match for anything out there because Honda's basic attitude towards building race bike will make it that way before they go into production. Honda is a very conservative company and will NOT go to market with an inferior race bike. Not their style. You can argue the first generation Aluminum frames were a bad move. They were different but not as bad as all the...HYPE. LaRocco was getting the same kind of results with those first and second Generation Aluminum framed CR's as he's getting now.
Look at those Kawasaki's, if you were to believe all you read about those old frames / chassis designs, they wouldn't be able to win any race much less championships! That chassis has been around for EVER!
From the look of that Honda I also bet they focused on lowering the Center of Gravity. A lower CG combined with a lower weight will give it a chance to set new handling standards that Yamaha will have to change their frame design to achieve.
:)
(Of course I've been a Honda Bigot for ever and therefore think the Yamaha's are nice but are the most oversold and hyped bike ever!
:p )
Look at those Kawasaki's, if you were to believe all you read about those old frames / chassis designs, they wouldn't be able to win any race much less championships! That chassis has been around for EVER!
From the look of that Honda I also bet they focused on lowering the Center of Gravity. A lower CG combined with a lower weight will give it a chance to set new handling standards that Yamaha will have to change their frame design to achieve.
:)
(Of course I've been a Honda Bigot for ever and therefore think the Yamaha's are nice but are the most oversold and hyped bike ever!
:p )
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Discussing frame materials in this thread is really beside the point. Honda has proven that they can make a bike with an aluminum frame that works, why would this be any different on a four stroke?
teton, you are a little off there...compensating with thicker cross sections of aluminum would be primarily due to STRENGTH consideratons, compressive, tensile, bending. NOT stretch and memory.
And it's all about strength to weight ratio, that's the bottom line! Honda started out trying to make a frame that wasn't lighter than a steel one, but had more strength. Four years later, they have done that, and now they can work on lightening the frame up. What have the other mfgs done lately to signinficantly lighten their frames? I'm guessing at this point the aluminum frame has much more potential.
teton, you are a little off there...compensating with thicker cross sections of aluminum would be primarily due to STRENGTH consideratons, compressive, tensile, bending. NOT stretch and memory.
And it's all about strength to weight ratio, that's the bottom line! Honda started out trying to make a frame that wasn't lighter than a steel one, but had more strength. Four years later, they have done that, and now they can work on lightening the frame up. What have the other mfgs done lately to signinficantly lighten their frames? I'm guessing at this point the aluminum frame has much more potential.
- Jan 25, 2000
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The first CR aluminum frames ('97 CR250) were not good, but that is very much my own (and many others) opinion. Some people liked them.
Honda seems determined to make the aluminum frame work as well or better than steel, in all respects. They may reach that goal, but carb access on the CR450 looks tough. With any luck, the carb will be jetted close to optimum right off the showroom floor, and the only inspection required will be the throttle cables. Valve clearance adjustment looks like it may be a little involved (at least on the intakes), but if it wears like a Yamaha, they'll rarely need adjusting. I'd bet that it'll be a bit better handling (lighter) and easier starting the the YZF.
This is all speculation of course (until "Joe Weekend Rider" starts picking them up and reporting back).
The first CR aluminum frames ('97 CR250) were not good, but that is very much my own (and many others) opinion. Some people liked them.
Honda seems determined to make the aluminum frame work as well or better than steel, in all respects. They may reach that goal, but carb access on the CR450 looks tough. With any luck, the carb will be jetted close to optimum right off the showroom floor, and the only inspection required will be the throttle cables. Valve clearance adjustment looks like it may be a little involved (at least on the intakes), but if it wears like a Yamaha, they'll rarely need adjusting. I'd bet that it'll be a bit better handling (lighter) and easier starting the the YZF.
This is all speculation of course (until "Joe Weekend Rider" starts picking them up and reporting back).
- Aug 2, 2000
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Love 'em or hate 'em, there is no denying that Honda does their homework when it comes to reliability of bikes (and cars, quads, etc.). Trust me, I've seen old Hondas that have been used and abused waaaaay beyond their limits. Honda has a rep for building tough bikes, and the aluminum frames are probably the toughest thing out there.
I ride a Honda, but I'm no big fan. I would like a new KTM, but even a first-year 2002 CRF450R would probably outlast a 2002 KTM 520SX.
If you want a bike that will last, get a Honda. And that's not hype.
I ride a Honda, but I'm no big fan. I would like a new KTM, but even a first-year 2002 CRF450R would probably outlast a 2002 KTM 520SX.
If you want a bike that will last, get a Honda. And that's not hype.
Sir speedy
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- Jan 7, 2001
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Donn Meada from TransworldMX mag....
My buddy Chip just received a e-mail from Donn that simply stated it is the "best" bike he has ever ridden and if you want one you better get to a dealer before the mag test hit the stands......but wait - didn't other mags say the same thing about the '97CR250 and the Cannondale..HAHA LOMA.
Jimmy in KC
My buddy Chip just received a e-mail from Donn that simply stated it is the "best" bike he has ever ridden and if you want one you better get to a dealer before the mag test hit the stands......but wait - didn't other mags say the same thing about the '97CR250 and the Cannondale..HAHA LOMA.
Jimmy in KC
Bike has nothing to do with it. All four Japanese bikes these days are great bikes. People can say all they want about which bike has more power and which one turns better, but its a fact that it all comes down to the person riding the bike. Right now, you could put RC on a any Japanese or European bike and he'll still win.
I think the Honda 450 will be a great bike and just as good as the 426. Who cares if one bike is a few pounds more. Just ride!!!
I think the Honda 450 will be a great bike and just as good as the 426. Who cares if one bike is a few pounds more. Just ride!!!
bwalker
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- Jan 10, 2000
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IMHO all four strokes mx'ers are way over hyped. The fact remains that a four stroke is heavier and will never make the the same hp as the same sized two stroke.Through as much money at a two stroke as the big four are throwing into the diesels and we would have some truly awesome two strokes.
CR Swade
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- Jan 18, 2001
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Hate to disagree, but after riding Blue Thunder's 426 quite a few times, I have been waiting patiently for the big CR. Four-strokes don't need near the shifting/braking/clutching that two-strokes do. They are the average man's ticket to speed. And yes, we can feel subtle differences between brands in handling/suspension/delivery. Keep in mind, with RC talent, you CAN ride anything. With average-guy talent, set-up and feel is much more important.
The little differences aren't normally found on the MX track though, but in the nasty, snotty, hilly trails that we frequent. Then you find out just how compliant a bike can be as weel as how usefull it's engine will be. Although, there are guys in our riding group here in KC that would rather chew glass than spend 5 miles on my bike, I dig it. Conversely, while great bikes, I am not a huge fan of the KTM 400/520-too much engine braking for my two-stroke tastes.
With that said, the new CR will be a great bike for many-as well as painfully fast (most big 4's are). If the engine braking is as minimal as I have heard, count me in.
Will I get rid of my 01'250? Never, never, never. It sure will look nice next to the 450 though. I can't wait. :cool:
The little differences aren't normally found on the MX track though, but in the nasty, snotty, hilly trails that we frequent. Then you find out just how compliant a bike can be as weel as how usefull it's engine will be. Although, there are guys in our riding group here in KC that would rather chew glass than spend 5 miles on my bike, I dig it. Conversely, while great bikes, I am not a huge fan of the KTM 400/520-too much engine braking for my two-stroke tastes.
With that said, the new CR will be a great bike for many-as well as painfully fast (most big 4's are). If the engine braking is as minimal as I have heard, count me in.
Will I get rid of my 01'250? Never, never, never. It sure will look nice next to the 450 though. I can't wait. :cool:
- Jan 25, 2000
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True, but I want the most bang for my buck, regardless. Common sense would tell me that 20 hp is more than adequate for the way I ride, but if I had any common sense, I wouldn't be ripping around on dirt bikes at my age anyway.
If everyone took the attitude "Well, a Carmichael type could whip me while riding backwards on a PW80 anyway, so what's the point of getting a new/different bike?", the sport would be diminished. I think this sport is a hobby for most of us, and hobbies don't have to make sense (the thread about creating a monster dirt bike with Kawasaki 750cc two stoke triple, etc., illustrates this).:confused:
True, but I want the most bang for my buck, regardless. Common sense would tell me that 20 hp is more than adequate for the way I ride, but if I had any common sense, I wouldn't be ripping around on dirt bikes at my age anyway.
If everyone took the attitude "Well, a Carmichael type could whip me while riding backwards on a PW80 anyway, so what's the point of getting a new/different bike?", the sport would be diminished. I think this sport is a hobby for most of us, and hobbies don't have to make sense (the thread about creating a monster dirt bike with Kawasaki 750cc two stoke triple, etc., illustrates this).:confused:
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