DirtRider Mag, Racer X, MXA & Transworld

[Okiewan]

DirtRider Mag, Racer X, MXA & Even Transworld

Every month, in just about any moto-mag I read, there is a negative comment referring to "Internet Fodder", "Internet Bandits", "Internet Wannabes", etc. Some "dumb-ass on the internet said"... "web people are bitching", etc.

The editors of these mags need to come to a simple conclusion that seems to be evading them: WE ARE THE SPORT. We are why they race. We are why they advertise in your mag. We are the ones that used to buy your rag.

It seems they think those of us that use forums like DRN suddenly materialized out of thin air when the web was born. Fact is, these guys (Mags) have had their collective heads buried in their SoCal moto world way too long; completely disconnected from anything outside the land of hard pack and smog. For the first time they are hearing what Joe Public is saying and they don't like it. Tell ya what Jody... Joe Web User is the one buying the products you push in that catalog you spew each month. Pssst! You may want to pay attention to what he has to say.

No, Joe Public is not some creature that exists in a PC, filling copper with nonsense. Joe Public on the web can be the same Joe Public that's been riding since the late 60's or he could be the 7 year old just starting-out... she may be a moto mom looking for advice (other than “Spend $10,000 on Jr’s bike, he’ll be cool”) , he / she finally has a way to communicate with riders worldwide ... not the one-way; "We ARE the sport and we say so" attitude coming out of SoCal publications. Seems this whole two-way communication thing is just a little to scary? “You mean someone can RESPOND to my statements?!!! Someone that may not agree that I AM moto??!!!”

The sooner you guys understand that the opinions of the web users matter and that these people are the reason bikes are sold in the first place, the sooner you can start improving my bathroom reading material (Put me on the list for a bathroom friendly web connection. And hurry. Please).

Joe Public is on DRN because he/she rides; he doesn't ride because he's on DRN.

 

[dirty~d~]

:worship: :thumb:

 

[evenslower]

You said it brother. Anybody can be a know-it-all when their views or spoutings can go unchallenged. This novel idea of expressing differing opinions or points of view must have a few folks in the moto-publishing world scared. C'mon, if you're scared say you're scared ;)

 

[VintageDirt]

Ain't it the truth. :thumb:

 

[bsmith]

:thumb:
Joe Public signing in! I have always disliked the mags, since I was stuck in 1984 with my old Honda. When I started looking for something new, it was DRN and the thumper forum that taught this average Joe that the KTM 520 is the bike for me.

Thanks to you other regular Joe's(and you Rich) and Joesephena's that help answer all my questions :thumb:

 

[truespode]

To be fair, TWMX and RX both have credited the Internet with a lot of good things as well.

I understand some of the Internet bashing. Not all dirtbike sites are as good as DRN and have some people who go WAY over the top.

Ivan

 

[Senior KX Rider]

Originally posted by Truespode
Not all dirtbike sites are as good as DRN and have some people who go WAY over the top.

Good point Ivan, the signal to noise ratio on most sites makes them fair game for ridicule.

 

[Okiewan]

Ivan.. always the diplomat :)
Good point about where they are getting their "internet vibe" ... maybe they need to dig a little deeper before bunching us all in one group?

What got me going was the latest TWMX.. about Langston taking heat on the web for moving back down to the 125's when he heard Stewart was out. "The only heat he took was by Internet Bandits"

Who are these "Internet Bandits" ? Fans that have a means to communicate their feelings? Surely there is nothing worse than a fan with internet access, lol. The mags want to tell us what we should think... they are the only ones that have a right to bash a rider? If the writer doesn't agree with what he reads on the web it's like "Well, that opinion came from the web, not real people".

They said (close quote) that "they were proved wrong when he won the second moto at Glen Helen". Proved wrong? The complaints I read were that he was going for what he thinks is an easy title. Why would anyone be proved wrong when he won a moto?

Take away the fans, their opinions and discussions (rather spoken or written), take away any/all controversy and there's not much left. It's all good as long as no one complains about anything? Because these opinions are expressed over copper they are less valid? It's the mentality of the mags regarding the web that bothers me. Nothing on the web can be true, only the stuff we write from our SoCal offices matters. How dare the common fan think he actually knows anything or form an opinion without the blessing of Roland?

"OMG! What if we are no longer considered the keepers of the knowledge.. keepers of the pulse?" What if a bunch of truly knowledgeable folks from the industry got together and made a web site? What if they told it like it is, rather than just spouting "this is cool" ? or:

"your 1 year old bike is crap! You need the new improved plastic the new model has"

Your < pick a color > bike is okay, but you can't win without a blue one.

"Here are our perfect MXA approved jetting specs. Of course these only apply to SoCal. If you aren't in SoCal, you shouldn't be riding so it doesn't really matter".

"Oh well, we still have better pictures".


:laugh:

 

[MikeT]

All you people on the Internet are BUMS! Bums I tell ya......... Oh, wait that would be me. Let me go out and ride my 7 year old bike. :)

 

[WhKnuckle]

Well, some of the "Internet Bandits" are on MotoDrive and MotoTalk, not a more respectable forum like this one or KTMTalk, etc. Some of that stuff gets pretty over-the-top (I used to post on MotoTalk, but quit when people started using Travis Pastrana's car wreck as joke-fodder). Still, it's high time the magazine that says "This is how it is and don't question us" takes a look at the Internet for the best free customer feedback they can get. Any thinking person, even Jody, can tell when a post came from an idiot, and they should just ignore those. All the others are representative of their customer base, and they'd do well to pay attention to them. I regularly see editors of RacerX and TWMX posting, and of course DR watches this one and probably others. There's a good reason those are the only mags I buy with my money - they are concerned about what their customers think, and they care enough about the sport to keep up with it.

I just wonder, when was the last year Jody the High Priest actually made it to a race that he couldn't walk to from his house or where he didn't design the track? What would he know about the sport other than the SoCal Nirvana?

 

[truespode]

Originally posted by Okiewan
Ivan.. always the diplomat :)

Ooops... I've been meaning to work ont that :)

maybe they need to dig a little deeper before bunching us all in one group?

I agree 100%

Take away the fans, their opinions and discussions (rather spoken or written), take away any/all controversy and there's not much left.

I agree. This sport has grown IMO b/c of the Internet and the ability to get information quickly. Look at the MXDN... the AMA was not planning on sending anyone and letters that were sent out from the AMA to some fans got posted on the Internet and a frenzy occurred that has IMO been a good thing b/c now we are sending our riders to the MXDN.

It's the mentality of the mags regarding the web that bothers me. Nothing on the web can be true, only the stuff we write from our SoCal offices matters. How dare the common fan think he actually knows anything?

That pisses me off too. Big time!!

The Internet is a great resource... the only problem is a lot of whacko's do contribute and there are horror stories on any topic. It is hard for a lot of the common fans who don't have the time to search a lot to find and differentiate between good sources at times.

Ivan

 

[truespode]

Originally posted by WhKnuckle
Well, some of the "Internet Bandits" are on MotoDrive and MotoTalk, not a more respectable forum like this one or KTMTalk, etc. Some of that stuff gets pretty over-the-top

Let's not get into that. Those sites have their good points as well.

There is no reason to get into a "which site is better" war right now.

We all know some sites have better sources of info for better things and some sites allow certain things to go farther than others.

Ivan

 

[Okiewan]

... and we all lived happily ever after :laugh:

 

[Jaybird]

The collective wealth of knowledge that is complied from the offerings of tens of thousands of contibutors, as well as the checks and balances that go along with the contributions far outweigh the offerings of any puny staff, of any rags office. Unless a particular mag has been lucky enough to have a staff full of genius' with crystal balls and super wrenching powers, there is no way they can compete.
Be happy, Bob. They don't stand a chance and they are simply going into defense mode.
And BTW...I keep a copy of MXA handy in the bathroom at all times, just in case the Charmin unexpectedly runs low.

 

[truespode]

The thing that really pisses me off is that the magazines get the coin and the places like DRN that not only provide quick and specific information that is more accurate than most magazine articles get very little coin in comparison.

Of course, I'm being dimplomatic but I'd rather see the manufacturers realizing just how important a site like this can be. Sure they'll get some weirdo's just flaming for no reason but they'd also get constructive feedback. Software companies have hired Ombudsman's to surf Internet newsgroups and boards to help customers. I'd love a job like that but in reality I don't see the dirtbike companies seeing the positive benefit.

They should though. Imagine a thread posted on DRN where a Honda rep can come in and clarify any info or at the very least reserach complaints and take it back to the R&D guys.

Ivan

 

[mx547]

in case you didn't know, twmx's steve gibberson is the administrator of motodrive. maeda hangs out there alot too. i would guess that when they say "internet bandits", they are speaking of themselves as well.

 

[Okiewan]

I guess (in reply to Ivan's last) one of the reasons the mfg's and others will advertise in the rags over the big sites is they feel a certain comfort level. This doesn't necessarily mean the mags and companies scratch each other's backs (nah), but more so that they believe the sites aren't "controlled". I'm sure they've seen their share of poorly run sites where the bickering, foul language and general crapola runs rampant. I've seen these sites and if that's the extent of their exposure to the web, I really wouldn't blame them. Advertising in the mags is "just how it's always been done" and feels safe.

It's kinda like their dealer network... it saves them from direct contact with their customers. To many, the dealers/distributors ARE the customer. I'm quite sure this mentality carries over to their advertising attitudes. The mags are their PR dealers.

Perfect example. I read recently about a ride < 3 letter company > puts on each year for their top dealers. <large 3 letter company > GM says "it's our way of giving back" (paraphrased). Giving back? To the folks that made money for themselves and < 3 letter company >? If you want to "give something back", give it to the people BUYING your stuff, not only the people selling it. I believe it's a case of < large 3 letter company > feeling their dealers are the customer, not Joe Public (that person I've been talking al lot about today, lol).

So will it come around for the web? I believe so. Seems to me the days of printed pubs will go away eventually; the overhead of a web delivery system of some kind is far less expensive than printing on paper.... and just a tad more efficient, lol. I kinda prefer to get race results as they happen, I can't imagine waiting the 3 months it takes for a mag to get it to my door. I see a day when the mags will be published online... you want it, pay the $ and download it / print it. Seems that even with the high tech delivery systems, MXA will still end up on my bathroom floor :p

 

[WhKnuckle]

If there's a way to do an entire mag on the Internet, with searchable past issues and links to various vendors, I'd gladly pay the same money I pay for the print versions. Just think - the new issue will be on the web on the same day each month, no waiting for the mailman to get tired of reading it before he delivers it (I have a bad attitude today), no checking the grocery store newsstand to see if the odd issue is out there, no keeping 400 pounds of magazines in the bedroom in case I have a sudden urge to read the story about the 1986 MXDN. THAT is the future for the specialty magazine market, as far as I can see.

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

I can see this thread getting ugly so I'm gonna close it down now. :p

 

[Tree]

OK who's going to move this to the Flame forum? ;)

Okie, I agree with your sentiment&nbsp;about the mags bashing the internet sites and not using it as a tool that could help them in the long run.

&nbsp;But, I don't&nbsp;see anything wrong&nbsp;with a&nbsp;"three letter bike company" giving their top selling dealer some incentives. After all, the dealer must be doing things right&nbsp;(customer service, discounts, stock on hand)&nbsp;to be the top seller. In the long run the customers benifit by giving recognition to their top seller. I would have a hard time believing that a dealer could become the top seller with out doing these things as we all know because of the internet Joe Public can find the lowest prices and best customer service with the touch of their hand. :thumb:

 

[Tony Eeds]

Okie - I know from where you speak. The pablum is a bit rancid these days. The only rag I read with regularity is REV. They still have a fresh feel, the rest of the rags are stuck in the same formula that existed in the late 80's.

Even with that I did learn a bunch about Dr. D from a recent (current?) issue of TMX. Really good article.

The web is going to completely overtake rags someday because, as you said, three months is too long to wait for information. IMHO, the only thing holding back the web now is the use of webspeak and the exceedingly low caliber of English usage sometimes (often?) present. We cannot be taken seriously until we act the same (at least in our ability to communicate). Nothing is wrong with BS, but if we want an answer to a question from a manufacturer's rep, we better ask it in the same spirit that we expect the answer.

At least with the web, we don't have to hear all the "uhs" .... :laugh:

 

[Okiewan]

Tree... I may have not made my point clear.
Having been the National Distribution Manager for an electronics manufacturer, I understand the importance of the network and the need to take care of them. The issue I had was with the phrase "giving something back". To me, the article was written as if they had achieved some great humanitarian cause, when in fact it was nothing more than a spiff pay-off to the dealers, not something for the people that keep the dealers and the 3-letter company in business. What they did was the right thing to do, the way they described it is my problem, nothing more.

And Tony, you're right, that is a good article.

 

[KelvinKDX]

Originally posted by Truespode
The thing that really pisses me off is that the magazines get the coin and the places like DRN that not only provide quick and specific information that is more accurate than most magazine articles get very little coin in comparison.&nbsp;

....

Ivan - possibly the reason some of the bike mags may be downplaying the importance of internet communications is that they see their "coin" diminishing and place the blame on the internet.

 

[swapmoto]

Internet Bandits? Hell yeah, I created that term. In jest, of course! I am an internet bandit myself! I think Okeiwan, that you are a little too sensitive and have overreacted to my use of that term. I completely understand and appreciate the value of the web... why do you think I've hired a full-time web guy to keep our site rockin' and rollin'?
As a matter of fact, the web site is our number-one priority each morning, as we try to have something new up each and every day.
Granted, this is a very well maintained forum (one that I check in on regularly), but take a look at some of the kooks that post elsewhere. Hey! You really wanna see some lame posts - check in on OUR message board. I think it is ruled by some 10-year-old kid named Gusgus who calls everyone gay and stupid. Unfortunately, we don't have the time or the man power to moderate our message boards. In fact, I am trying to get it torn off the TWMX web site.

Please don't take the "internet bandit" thing so personally.

 

[Jaybird]

I was wondering how long it would take you to get here, Don...you internet bandit you! :)