Here goes my Tim Olson rant

[truespode]

Originally posted by fishhead
whether DRN can outgrow the desire or tendancy to bash.

DRN's desire to bash is minimal in comparison to the normal bashing I hear at other social gatherings on Sunday's (not races).

The tendency to bash is just a by-product of venting and as you pointed out the written medium can sometimes make that venting seem harsher than it is meant to be.

Ivan

 

[fishhead]

Originally posted by Truespode


DRN's desire to bash is minimal in comparison to the normal bashing I hear at other social gatherings on Sunday's (not races).

The tendency to bash is just a by-product of venting and as you pointed out the written medium can sometimes make that venting seem harsher than it is meant to be.

Ivan

Ivan,
That appears to be a defense or justification of a practice that results in alienation or hurt feelings. Please correct me if I am wrong. In any case, bashing is not productive is it? Aren't there more productive ways to vent frustration or anger than venting or attacking in a public forum? Run a couple miles, go have a hard workout, rip up your favorite trail or track etc.

If you carry your line of reasoning on on to it's ultimate conclusion then you are in effect contending that all is well because there is less bashing here than at other forums or your Sunday get togethers. While that is good, it raises a question: what about the forums that have a zero tolerance policy on bashing, wouldn't that make them better? If it does, why not stop bashing altogether? Is it an unwillingness to consider the ramifications of this little bit of pathological human behavior? Which is; bashing is a form of verbal bullying.

There are legitimate complaints about products and services and complaints can be resolved. Bashing resoves nothing.

 

[Thump]

Originally posted by fishhead
There are legitimate complaints about products and services and complaints can be resolved. Bashing resoves nothing.

This was a legitimate complaint and there was no bashing involved. In your own words "Either you deal with it in a constructive manner or you raise the ante." I choose to raise the ante. Did it resolve anything? Yes it did. I got to hear peoples opinions on the subject, including yours and Tim responded to the thread. We all make decissions every day and we have to live with the consequences of our actions. I choose to vent here and I accept the critisim by you, Tim made his choice too.

I am not pissed at him, nor do I dislike the guy or his work, I dislike his ethic. If I worked for Asterisk, Thor, Yamaha... any industry affiliate that advertises in MXA or someone that he has a "scratch my back and I will scratch your" relationship with him my call would have been returned ASAP. But I am not, I am just a guy that buys the magazine, I am Joe nobody therefore not worthy of a simple phone call.

 

[fishhead]

Thump,

The old saying "When you are up to your neck in alligators it's hard to remember your intent was to drain the swamp." seems appropriate here.

It appeares that with nobel intent you were trying to invite Tim to DW, Plan A. Frustrated in that you posted your rant, Plan B. Based soley on tolsens response here it does not appear that Plan B furthered progress of Plan A but rather may have damaged the chances for future success. Time will tell. In the meantime it appears that Plan A is abandoned for the time being

Certainly you did get validation for your feelings from others in the forum and tolsen did respond although the response was not what you had originally hoped. It your own words the resultant resolution was not the accomplishment of the original goal but validation of opinions and feelings. It is true that if you a customer that pays the bills you would have gotten a call asap, but thats business, no surprise there.

If the original goal was so important, why succumb to discouragement and burn the bridge you were trying to build?

 

[truespode]

Originally posted by fishhead
There are legitimate complaints about products and services and complaints can be resolved. Bashing resoves nothing.

Like I said. Thicker skin.

One man's complaint is another person's bashing. I've learned that ANYTHING said can be taken as a bash so I just don't worry about it more than necessary.

I try to be civil and diplomatic. However, no matter what I say someone is going to go off the deep end and think its a bash or that I'm mean while others are going to look at it and not see it as a big deal.

With thousands of people reading these words day in and day out somebody is going to get upset. I'm as guilty as over-reacting to written words as the next guy so I understand it. The bottom line is that I do not see anything in this thread that was over the top and definately did not see Thump as assasinating Olson's personal character.

You are free to have a different view but I feel that if we spend so much time worrying exactly how we should handle a problem, feeling or issue then it never gets handled at all.

Ivan

 

[Thump]

Originally posted by fishhead
If the original goal was so important, why succumb to discouragement and burn the bridge you were trying to build?

Because I have given up building bridges, it is not my natural talent. The one thing that bugs me about this industry (motorcycles that is) is that the only way to get anywhere with anyone is 1) Know someone 2) Know someone else 3) Know their boss and 4) If you don't know anyone, get to know someone. If this was my job or I had a vested intrest in it I could better understand these things, but it is not. I spend my lunch hours calling people and sponsors inviting them to DW. Why? Because I want to make it better for everyone that comes out and I want to spread the word. I guess it is just frustrating to be wasting my time, my free-time that is. You did give me some good stuff to think about though and I appreciate it.

I'm done on this topic.

 

[Okiewan]

Are we going to be charged by the hour for all this advice fishhead?

Thump. Next time something like this happens; take a moment to reflect of the beauty of life, think sweet thoughts about the person you feel wronged you. Take a long hard look at yourself, look deep inside. Only then will you realize (grasshopper) that the wrong was actually brought upon yourself.

:silly:

 

[truespode]

Or if you are Gomer...

think sweaty thoughts about the person you feel wronged you.

:p

Ivan

 

[nephron]

and I want to spread the word.

I wouldn't worry about that part of it too much. It seems MXA sales are down a few percent each year (see opp. thread)--and Dirt Rider and other mags who are promoting this site reasonably well are more successful.

Maybe he'll bash DRN in MXA--so call a spade a spade. So what? Any publicity is good publicity. I like this place very much, and don't care too much what MXA thinks. Besides, think about how many MXA types we'll be spared....

 

[fishhead]

Originally posted by Okiewan
Are we going to be charged by the hour for all this advice fishhead?

Of course not! How much do I owe You? ;) Later!