Here goes my Tim Olson rant

[dirty~d~]

Whether he lives in Southern Cali or not, there is no excuse for the inability to communicate. Of course being a ball-less wonder can contribute to that flaw. :think:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Originally posted by motometal
not sure what % of members would agree with me but...

i'm personally not too keen on trying to make Dirt Week such a "big deal

You can count me in that percentage. :thumb:


I'm sure DW will get along just fine without the help of the magazines. No offense Swap, you seem like a pretty genuine guy who still remembers why the motorcycle business is cool. :thumb:

 

[jake949]

this site has gotten big , i still like the site but i remeber when i knew everyones name when they posted. now i just hunt for the core group. and read there posts. I hope some day i can make it to DW before it gets to big.

 

[Senior KX Rider]

Originally posted by jake949
I hope some day i can make it to DW before it gets to big.

September 29th......Stillwater OK.............That would be the time to achieve this goal, then you would only have to hope that you could make it the next year. :thumb:

 

[jake949]

well bad news I don't have a bike at the moment, and i have a family elk hunting trip planned for that week. it is a yearly thing i might get disowned if i didn't go. draw only hunt.

 

[dirty~d~]

Hey, Elk will be at DW. :confused: You can still go! :)

 

[XRpredator]

Originally posted by dirty~d~
Hey, Elk will be at DW. :confused: You can still go! :)

right name, wrong unit . . . :confused:

 

[dirty~d~]

Originally posted by XRpredator
right name, wrong unit

Hey hey, he wasn't specific. :confused:

 

[jake949]

i might need help skinning him. and i don't think his antler is big enough to hang a tag on :eek:

 

[Tolson]

It's funny, I was all set to attend Dirtweek this year. Billy Frank and Doug Dubach told me how much fun it was and I was really getting excited. I had a bike all lined up and everything. I got thump's call (no e-mails sorry, computer issues at work) and decided to go on the website and see how things were going. Big mistake. What's the first thing I see. What's wrong with MXA and Calling Tim Olson. Both of course in the flame board and both two years old, but brought to the front of the list for everyone's enjoyment.

Why on earth would I want to go to an event put on and sponsored by people who love nothing more than throwing the magazine I work for and myself under the bus?

I should have called thump back and voiced this to him, but instead I decided to keep my mouth shut and move on.

Sorry, but that's what I thought was best.

Hope you all have fun at Dirtweek and give MXA a chance every once in a while. It's not so bad although I've never tried to use it for toilet paper.

Sincerely,

Tim Olson

 

[VintageDirt]

But Tim, now you'll never see for yourself what a dork I am. The free beer and food offer was for real. The late night walk to the porta-can is negotiable. The bike wash thing is probably against the law in Oklahoma and nobody wants to see that anyway.

DRN is not really that rough a neighborhood compared to the likes of RMD and TFS World.

Laters.

Sincerely,

Wes "VD" Baca :flame:

 

[motometal]

if nothing else positive comes out of this, Tim, please at least hear our complaints regarding the magazine and consider them. 

 

[Thump]

Originally posted by Tolson
Why on earth would I want to go to an event put on and sponsored by people who love nothing more than throwing the magazine I work for and myself under the bus?

Maybe to show people first hand what I realized when I met you at the Vet National, that you are just like the rest of us, someone that is into the sport. I think you would change a lot of the impressions people have of you that were formed by what they read, both in print and online.

Originally posted by Tolson
I should have called thump back and voiced this to him, but instead I decided to keep my mouth shut and move on.

This is why people, myself included, get the "I'm too good for you" vibe from you. You see, none of us are big name anybodies. DRN is not my job nor has it ever yeilded an monatary profit for me BUT I know that I have been a part of building something great that impacts the present and future of our sport and that is profit enough for me. To be honest I would not have cared if MXA ran any coverage of the event or not, I just thought it would be a step in the right direction for a better relationship between the online and print community. I would like to talk to you more about this but I will not be calling you again to be ignored, you have my number.

BTW, you are not the only one that gets bashed on the boards. You can go to pretty much any other BB do a search and you will find that Okie, Rich, myself and DRN as a whole gets slammed everybit as much as others, Hell we even get slammed here.

 

[truespode]

Originally posted by Thump

BTW, you are not the only one that gets bashed on the boards. You can go to pretty much any other BB do a search and you will find that Okie, Rich, myself and DRN as a whole gets slammed everybit as much as others, Hell we even get slammed here.

Some have even accused us of being the MXA of the Internet :) LOL

Originally posted by Tolson

Why on earth would I want to go to an event put on and sponsored by people who love nothing more than throwing the magazine I work for and myself under the bus?

Because you will find out that the number of those who attend dirtweek outnumber those that post their hatred for MXA and you will change some minds.

Come see how dirtbikers from around the country get together and enjoy riding, bs'ing and picking on each other. Just watch out for that Gomer character... I have a hunch he has a crush on you... he may want to give you a hug (and trust me he has nothing bad to say about MXA... he just likes hugs).

:)

If some of this doesn't make sense... come to DW and you will see why we all get the jokes and enjoy each others company.

I've bashed your magazine in the past (and defended it a time or two when I thought you did something right - non only here but on Mototalk and other boards as well). One thing I've noticed is that my bashing as a regular guy is less than the bashing you get from some of the industry guys you probably do business with.

Come change our minds Tim. I think you will have a blast.

Ivan

 

[nephron]

I don't blame him for not wanting to come, and I wouldn't either. In fact, I'm NOT 'cuz I'm afraid of Rich. ;)

 

[Senior KX Rider]

I agree with Thump, Tim. This would be the perfect opportunity to change a lot of peoples perception of the magazine people.. You are very much welcome and it is a GAURANTEED good time. Wish you would re-consider

 

[Farmer John]

Originally posted by Tolson
Hope you all have fun at Dirtweek and give MXA a chance every once in a while. It's not so bad although I've never tried to use it for toilet paper.

Sincerely,

Tim Olson

Tim,

It is my wish that you make it out to DirtWeek.
Not "to change everyones view of MXA".
Not "to have a show down with {fill in name here}".
Not for any of the reasons listed, but just to go spend a few days riding with people that just plain like motorcycles & the people that ride them.

Please keep in mind the "Flame Forum" is the place where DRN'rs go to vent. I am sure Thumps posts were just that.

Pleasee continue to make arrangements to be in OK early Oct & I prommise not to give you one ove my 6 year old Coors Lights. :thumb:

 

[MrLuckey]

I'm just a small time nobody and I couldn't care a less if you show up or not. If you don't, it's most definitely your loss, not mine. I'll be meeting up with two or three hundred folks who love dirtbikes, want to eat some good food and have the time of their lives for a week. I've been at odds with a few of those folks way more you probably are with anyone here and we'll shake hands, ride together, work on each others bikes, give each other parts, cook and eat together... you get the idea.

Heck, I wouldn't even know who the hell you were and would probably be giving you some of the Tri-Tip my Cali buddies are bringing in if you looked hungry.

But don't think for a second that you'll spoil my fun if you decide not to have a blast for an entire week yourself.

 

[fishhead]

Originally posted by bclapham
allthough i think not returning calls and emails is rude, why on earth would Tim Olson want to come to a meet up in the middle of the country, where the people meeting are all from a website that has many threads personally aimed at slamming Tim and his work? cant say i blame him really. I also remember from some threads from ages ago that there was some considerable bad blood between Tim and some of the higher ranking members of this website, so why would he want to go>?>?>?

Beats me!
;)
Maybe Thumps crush is unrequited love.

A mind convinced against it's will is not a mind convinced. The prejudice against MXA is clear and this is not going to change anyones mind, they will have to change their own. Like stinky sock some minds should be changed. Sadly those who demand to be convinced in an adversarial format are the one's who need to examine thier own stand.

Some may feel justified bashing Tim or MXA because of personal involvment in other issues, personal likes and dislikes, personal views, personal whatever. Funny how the rules about personal attacks have been suspended when MXA and Tim Olsen come up here. I don't read the Mag and I'm not part of the target audience as my demographic has moved on so to speak. But if you personally don't like the Mag or his work don't personally read it or don't personally buy it and at least have the personal maturity to leave it be and rise above the personal petty squabbles and personal nit picking.

This tribal notion of self righteous indignation without principle is not DRN's finest attribute! Moderators should moderate themselves IE. observe reasonable limits. :laugh:

 

[Thump]

Fishhead,
While I respect your opinion, this was not a personal attack. If you read the description of this forum "The Flame Board! -- Bad experience with something? Feel like you've been wronged? Speak your mind here. Enter at your own risk, it's hot in here." This post was about a bad experience. Nowhere did I attack his professionalism or character, rather I was venting about getting ignored, ie. a bad experience. People post in here all the time that Rich is too hard on people, that we over-moderate and that certain companies have poor customer service.... This is no different in my eyes but everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[fishhead]

Sorry Thump, but I have to respectfully disagree and offer the following for your consideration.

Bad experience with something. Sure, that makes sense. Bad experience with someone. That's different! Particularly when you name names, it's crossing a boundary between the person and a thing. The person has feelings and we would hope that they would show us the consideration that we feel we deserve and they rightfully have the same expectation of us. Things have no feelings. That is no small difference as I see it. Venting on a person in a public forum is the same as going off on someone in public.

Being ignored happens all the time, its just part of life. Either you deal with it in a constructive manner or you raise the ante. My personal philosophy is to give the ignorer the benefit of the doubt and I hope that I get the benfit of the doubt when I'm not johnny on the spot returning calls etc.

The summary of my point is: observe the Golden Rule. This results in appreciation rather than depreciation.

 

[truespode]

Originally posted by fishhead
Venting on a person in a public forum is the same as going off on someone in public.

You need to grow some thicker skin and realize that this happens all the time. I've been attacked personally numerous times on here, on other boards and newsgroups. All over the place on these supposed "public" forums. What you may see as a personal attack is NOT a personal attack like I'm familiar with.

So has Okie, Rich, Thump and Jer. We have been ran through it just as much, if not more than Tim and MXA. The only difference is we have been ran through the mud and had people question our integrity and character without ever meeting us. They then point to small snipets of a post to "prove" how evil we are. Sheesh... they never put it in context and make it sound like we just see a post and ridicule a person. Usually what someone calls criticism some person calls bashing. We can't please everyone by being something we are not so we speak as we feel when we can.

The mods even do it to each other. Hell, I've had Rich threaten to break my windpipe and he has told Thump his mind too. It was done to prove a point and make us step back and realize what was going on. With us he knows we are not going to go off the deepend and get too PC about our hurt feelings (although at times it takes a few weeks for it to sink in for me:) ).

Take a look at other boards and you will see a lot of disdain towards MXA and many by people who have met and dealt with MXA.

I'm not condoning personal bashing but what you see here on DRN is very tame and controlled compared to the flaming many others have taken at other sites. Rich has been nicer to his worst enemy than others have been too us.

Like I said, thicker skin man, thicker skin. Or at least realize the difference in personal bashing.

Ivan

 

[fishhead]

Ivan,
If you are implying I took offense be assured I am not offended. My writing style is pretty spare with words so I don't set much of a tone other than context, the result of too many letters to write in too little time when I was a coporate schmuck. In this particular instance Thump did not recieve poor service, get gypped, suffer personal injury, ecetera. The gist of his complaint was his offer and attempts at communication with a person were ignored. The response was to rant on a person, Tim Olsen. Perhaps not everyones favorite person but a person nonetheless. Were credentials attacked, not really, Was professionalisim called into account? Perhaps a bit. So what are we really dealing with? It appears to be hurt feelings steming from rejection. Thumps effort to increase the credibility of DRN by involving other participants in the industry are very comendable and deserve commendation. Kudo's for that, Thump!

To be sure, popular opinion weighs against MXA in this forum, and it has made it's full share of errors. However bclapham made a very salient point regarding the perspective that tolsen may have with regard to attending DW and it bears careful consideration. Can any organization afford to alienate potential allies? We all know that respect is earned, and DRN is the new kid on the block. Respect will come with time if the Forum earns it. What the future holds for the Forum and this type of medium is unknown but I think it is safe to say it will continue to exercise increasing influence.

The larger question at hand is not what constitutes the limits of bashing, personal or otherwise, but whether DRN can outgrow the desire or tendancy to bash. I am suggesting that the forum will benefit if members seek the high moral ground on this matter and that moderators set a good example and provide guidance and correction where necessary. Everyone's right to an opinion does not guarantee everyone's opinion is right. Nor is it unkind to correct erroneous opinions in a kind manner.

It is how we deal with adversity that reveals our true character. ;)

 

[VintageDirt]

Originally posted by fishhead
. . .

I think you may be right there Mr. Fishead. Sure makes me wish I could take back all of my MXA rantings. I was hoping Mr. Olson would take my poison pen as somewhat sarcastic and maybe even find some humor in it. Given some of my other communications with Mr. Olson, and some of the other High-Torque guys, maybe he did find it a bit comical. Heck I even sent a resume to MXA as real funny joke, HAHA.

I truly do believe that MXA, or any other publications, has the right to be whatever the publishers and editors want it to be. MXA does not owe me an explanation and I honestly don’t expect one either. Business success speaks for itself anyway.

But you what? It’s hard to interpret MXA’s, Tim’s, Jody’s, and Roland’s (or whoever’s) take on criticism. That’s because “they” rarely answer criticism. Or praise for that matter. Heck MXA rarely even gives the author of an “article” a by-line. I realize that responding to hundreds of ludicrous emails everyday could get tedious. But that doesn’t stop Rick Sieman, Paul Clipper, Davey Coombs, Donn Maeda, and lots of other magazine guys from trying!

I would withdraw my criticism of MXA, but I’m going to let it stand on the grounds that it was not written with malicious intent or hatred. At the very least it was meant as irreverent humor; at best I would hope it was constructive criticism from the heart. Maybe I wouldn’t be so quick to offer up my gripes if I wasn’t such an old has-been that never-was. It is hard to accept change when your memories are better than your future. Hmmm, that doesn’t sound too good. I guess I’ll have to work on my attitude.

I, for one, never meant to hurt anyone’s feelings. If I have, then I apologize.

It is just the Internet after all. :thumb:

Wes Baca :)

 

[zio]

Hey Wes, read your letter in RacerX. I didn't know what you were talking about, but I smiled anyway when I read your name. :)

Tim, if you come to DW, leave your pen & pad at home. Bring your gear, and just have fun with us. We'll give you a code name, like Hugh Jass. Or Cowboy Karl. I'm partial to Marion. But you can pick your own if you don't like any of these. And I'll make room in my sleeping bag for you. ;)