Hey dads, Pinewood Derby . . .

[XRpredator]

Okay, here's my dilemma. Predator2 started Cub Scouts this year (they call the little guys Tiger Cubs now) and the Pinewood Derby is coming up. They send him home with the kit and we're supposed to build it.

They say the kid should do most of the building. Now, I'm not going to turn my 6-year old loose with power tools (or anything sharp, for that matter), and I want to make him what he wants, but I don't want to make it too trick and look like the Pinewood Derby equivalent of a "Mini-Dad", know what I mean? Trouble is, even with my ham-handed approach to the building of this car, it is actually turning into something pretty cool!

Any of you other dads out there who have been there, fill me in. I could use a little advice.

 

[thorman75]

dont feel bad about helping,you wont believe the sandbagging that goes on.you can buy the cars already built and tricked out by the way.soapbox derby same thing.the kid built the car,surehe did, and hes got a mechanical engineering degree from purdue too.

 

[Milquetoast]

Even 20 years ago when I was in the pinewood derby, the trickness of these cars was beyond belief (at least for kids of single digit age). Go all out and I guarantee that there will be someone else with a more serious effort. Nobody lets a 6 year old have all the fun! Oh, and the guy with the least amount of effort often wins. Watch the kid who nailed the wheels into the wood block, then wrote his name on the side, win the trophy. Happens every year. ;-)

 

[Patman]

I flat out kicked everybodies butt with my piney! Dad did the power tool cuttin to my design and the lead meltin'/pouring part. Keep in mind this was a while back but my winning design? TR7. Yup "the shape of things to come" just a wedge from the block they gave us no fancy contours. Placed a large amount of the lead weight behind the front axle in a hole I whittled out with the cub scout knife then a counter balance behind the rear axle that was drilled about 3/4" deep and 5/16" dia. cut a plastic army guy at the waist to drive it and painted it blue. Dad chucked the nails in his drill to polish them since I wasn't making much progress spinning them in my fingers one day. Put a washer on each side of the wheel and sprayed the "axles" with some new fangled dry teflon spray every day for a week. When we got there I was a bit bummed because you could tell a lot of them were dad specials so mine wasn't a purdy but when they let them rip I consistantly pulled a minimum of 5 car lengths at the finish!:) Had all kinds of protests and after about 45 minutes of examining what we did there was nothing illegal. One guy was mad because we used the washers to minimize friction loss, heck I just wanted to use them because they looked like hub caps.:confused:

Have fun XRP and remember it's a father and son project and no dad is going to let their 6-8 year old run a power tool, unsupervised at least.;)

 

[XRpredator]

Thanks guys. I was getting worried when Pred2 drew up what he wanted (I think it was an Indycar in his mind) and now that I've knocked off the big chunks it's actually starting to look like an Indycar! We may not be the fastest one there, but it'll be the trickest looking!

He gets bored in the garage watching, though, but I told him I wouldn't work on it unless he was there for every step.

 

[kingriz1]

Well here was my experience.

I was in the cub scouts. When the derby came around they gave us a plastic bag, it had a block 4 nails and 4 wheels in it.

Our scout master told us we should be the ones building it with minimal to no help.

So I took my block and the directions and made my car. I just cut the ends at opposing angles, painted it and nailed the wheels in. Just like the instructions said too do. I had no idea what everyone else was up too. It was my first year.

I was really proud of the car I had built. I thought it looked great!

I was in the second grade and I did the best I could.

Well the night of the derby came and when I got there, I was confused!

How did they get the block of wood to look like the freaking Batmobile?

This was 23 years ago and the cars were wild.

Looking back I now know that NO 7 year old could build a car like that! It was one of those let Dad help you son, overgrown kid things!

Well I did not do very well. My car did not roll very fast or straight.

I think if I had raced against cars that kids had built then I would have done fine.

However, my car was no match for the car built by a 40 year old engineer or woodworking professional.

I say let the kid build his car. Let all of them build thier own. The derby like all other things in the scouts are designed with a bigger picture in mind. To make the kids better citizens. To help them become self reliant and to take responsibility for their own actions. I hope my son (when I have kids) joins the scouts. However when the derby comes, he will build his own car.

I might let him know that you can do more than what the directions say.;)

Sincerely,

Riz

 

[Treejumper]

My experience was pretty much like kingriz1's. I used a hand saw and cut my design out, nothing fancy. Lost like you wouldnt believe. :( I had fun anyways and got to do it myself with my dad watching over me. I would put it like this, does he want to win or does he want to say he did it himself?

BTW, i did redeem myself at the Pack 54's Rain Gutter Regatta! I was the second best blowhard there gaining me my first trophy ever! I still have it displayed and can brag about how i built my boat myself. Something to ponder. :D

 

[dhoward]

The "ultimate Pinewood derby site"....

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/randywoo/pine/
;)

 

[awilson40]

I remember when....

I was a kid and had to 'build' a derby car. My dad (devorce was in progress)
wouldnt help a bit. All these kids had trick looking cars and mine was a piece of crap. I got beat the first round. I swore that when I had kids, it would be different. Well, when My boy's turn came, I read everything on car design, lathe turned the wheels, built a jig to burnish the hubs(with graphite), polished the 'axles' trued the car, we went all out. He got 2nd and it took 3 runs because the guy who won and my son were so close. After it was over we found that the plastic guns he put on the front of the car for looks were actually holding his car bak in the start gate!!! We took them off and ran another run with the winner for fun and our car won by 1/2 an inch!!.
Do what you can to help... all the dads do. The most important thing to look for is how straight it tracks.Set up a practice track with no rails and make adjustments so the car tracks straight. The guy who beat us put his car together the night before with just the parts from the kit!!!

 

[WaltCMoto]

Have pred2 do some sanding, fileing, painting, sticker placement decisions. Important stuff:D dry powder graphite on the axles if ya dont find patmans stuff. staight tracking is most important. Remember to have fun with the building part, cause some people take this way to serious.
Good luck

 

[Old CR goat]

Here's the most important part, do it together. Just like you said that you would only work on it while he was there. If you do a lot of it, no matter as long as he is there. If he says let me do that part, let him, even if it isn't perfect.
When he's an old fart like you and I, that's what he's gonna remember most.

 

[thorman75]

well if you wanna win bad send it egorr have it ported,then...

 

[Gary B.]

When my boys were in Cub Scouts, my wife was the cubmaster and things got so out of hand that the cars were handed out to the den leaders to be built ONLY at den meetings with others present. THAT turned out to be some of the most fun, closest racing we had in something like seven years of Cub Scouts.:debil:

 

[R White]

Hey XRP do most of the cutting yourself, then hand him some sandpaper to finish.my sons were allso scouts we heve 3 distric titles and the cars looked like the boys built them because they did. have him draw what he wants on the side of the block you cut the rough and have him sand the rest.ILL PM you the rest of how to make it a champ car.don't want everyone to have all the tricks. Rick:p

 

[Tree]

I helped my son and daughter build one for their youth groups. My son's we made look like an indy car and my daughter's was supposed to look like a NASCAR version but it ended up looking more like a draggster funny car. They didn't win all their races because we didn't keep the cars to the maximum weight limits and balance it out (I learned that latter) but they looked pretty good. The key to getting a nice look is to use a Dremel. With proper supervision they are pretty easy for the kids to use and are nice and small to provide nice detailing.

 

[WoodsRider]

Wow deep rooted memories here

Pred - My dad helped me build all three of my pinewood derby cars when I was a kid. Basically I drew up the design, he operated the power tools (or I'd be missing a few digits) and I did all the finishing, painting and assembly. One year my dad, who got suckered into being the scoutmaster) offered to build a new track for the Pacific Northwest Council. He built this monsterous 6-lane track that we'd assemble in the Food Court at Seattle Center. We kept it at our house and I had my own private test facility in the basement. Believe it or not, that was over 25 years ago and I heard a rumor that the track is still in use.

Oddly enough, none of my three cars were ever grand champions. However I did learn a few tricks. Use aerodynamic shapes. Get the car as heavy as possible, gravity is your friend. Get the weight (we used lead) as far forward as possible, in front of the forward axle. Use graphite to lubricate the wheels and axles.

 

[Patman]

You know if you use melted lead to fill a divit in the bottom of the car and you pool it up a little bit if the scale reads your car as overweight all you need to do is scrape it a bit with your pocket knife to get it down to legal. Just remembered we did that and needed to pull like 1/4 ounce off.:)

 

[CC_RIDER]

One of my most humiliating times in my life happened when I was a Cub at the Pinewood derby. We built our cars during the den meetings with no help from the parents. None of us kids had any idea how to build the cars or make them fast. Even the Den Master (a mom) had no experience.

My car would not even make it down the ramp. :o :(

When my boys joined the scouts, there was no way that I was going to let this happen to them! It took us several attempts to make a good showing. We finally got a second place in the over-all, and the red one recieved Best of Show.

My advice would be to help your son with his car, letting him do as much as possible (with your supervision).
It's great to have a sharp looking car, but in the end it all boils down to who wins the race.

Here are some things I picked up along the way ...

1. Axles and wheels. Chuck up the axles (nails) in a lathe or drill chuck and smooth and polish the area where the hubs will run. Try to not take too much off the diameter of the axle. Be sure to polish the underside of the head, but keep it flat. Once you have the axles smooth, burn in the wheels by sliding them on the axle and spinning the axle in the lathe or drill. Apply graphite to the axle and using some small amount of pressure against the wheel, burnish the hubs to the axel while rotating the wheels. This will actually embed some of the graphite into the hub and really make them slick! You'll know you're finished when you can get a one minute spin of the wheel when you spin it with your finger. Make sure the hub sticks out further than the wheel on the inside so that you won't be rubbing the body other than at the hub. You might also want to round the outer running surface of the wheel to cut down surface contact and runout. We did this using a tight fitting mandrel in the hub and spinning it a lathe. We took a light cut across the tread area to assure roundness, then beveled the outer edges to leave a small contact area. You don't want wide slicks and traction here!

2. Weight. Make sure you are at the weight limit. Gravity and momentum are your engine. Balance is up for debate, but I tried to keep the bulk of the weight to the rear. The balance point we used was about one inch in front of the rear wheel. If the front end is too light, it will jump around a lot on the track, and cause erratic behaviour. We used cast lead bullets pushed into holes drilled on the underside for the weights, and empty holes for fine tuning the balance. (see pics)

3. Assembly. Make sure axles are set in straight, parallel, and tight. Some people glue them in, however this makes last minute wheel work more difficult. Check your car to make sure it tracks straight and does not wobble or show erratic behaviour. You don't want to discover these things at the race!

4. When you are finished, don't play with the car, or allow your son to. The day of the races is most crucial as all the kids will want to handle the car and push it thru the dirt, and see if it will take flight, or crash well. Save that for after the race.

5. Fun! That is what it's all about. But don't think for an instant that it won't be competitive.

Here's some pics of our better cars. The stacks and exhausts on the red car are .177 pellets! The silver one was the fastest.

The stacks and exhausts on the red car are .177 pellets!

Good luck! ;)

 

[R White]

Ok XRP here are the real tricks,when the car is close to being done lay it on its side,with A 1/4" drill cross drill it in 4 places one just in front of front axel,then just in front of center of car, one in front of rear axel,one behind of rear axel, mark the drill bit so you allmost go all the way thru,make these holes as close to the bottom of the car as possible,fill all holes full of lead,this will put you right on the edge of weight limit,but not over;) puddy the holes and have son finish sanding,do not put weights on bottom of the car you will limit track guide clerance slowing the car. now for the tuning get a dremmel insert nail (axel) in it. with a diomond file, file all burs from inside botom of axels (under side of nail heads) these rubb the the tires slowing the car, with same file smooth the contact portion of axel, with same file cut 3 small groves in contact portion of axel,this allowes the axel to retain grafite, now with some 1200 sand paper polish axel, do same to all axels!!! now to the tires, with 800 paper smooth running serface of all tires,then do it with 1200 paper,ok now your allmost done,insert axel w/tire on it into dremmel,smother axel and inside of tire w/grafite, spin dremmel slow while holding tire,increse dremmel speed alowing tire to spin but not as fast as the axel, add more grafite, now let the tire spin free, dremmel to full then off after tire comes to full speed,continue doing this intill the tire spins for quite some time after shuting off dremmel, ok now your done and coverd with grafite, :p BTW put the axels in strait with min. side to side play grafite well again so that side of car has good coat on it, now this is the hard part don't let your son play with it and only set it on its wheels when its on the track. thats it have fun and good luck Rick

 

[yardpro]

i won the regionals with mine. all we did was nail the wheels on, and paint the sucker.