KawieKX125

~SPONSOR~
Oct 9, 2000
948
0
Just got back from the southwick national. I spent about 3 hours at the Pro-Action van with their head tech learning about suspension. That was great. I asked him about his opinions on low vs. high flow pistons. His response was the same as yours. Then he went on about all the compainies valving kits and got to yours. He hated yours, not becasue of the theroy involved, but because he said it was almost an exact copy of their stuff and that you do nothing unique. Naturally I was a little bemused after hearing this and comparing it to all the praise your recieve from consumers, but I didn't respond. My question is, Is this true? What would drive that man to say these things? Did you and him(Greg) have some sort of bad encounter? I really don't get it.

BTW, he was really nice the whole day to me. He taught me how to dissasemble totally(midvalves) and all on the twinchamber forks and regular forks. Also all shocks. Well please respond.
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,555
2,237
Texas
What would drive that man to say these things?

Fear?

Seriously...
When you run into someone who really tries to trash a competitor... he's doing it for a reason. Maybe MX Tech taking the MXA win recently? Who knows. Either way, I doubt you'll get much of a response from Jeremy on this question. His customers do his talking.
 

bigred455

"LET'S JUST RIDE"
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Sep 12, 2000
782
0
I agree,when a company has to talk trash about a competitor to make themselves look like the best, it is very unprofessional and poor taste.I had my 98 done by pro action i was not impressed. Then again they are a franchise i had mine done in allentown pa,maybe it was just that job site.
 

KawieKX125

~SPONSOR~
Oct 9, 2000
948
0
Bdell99, I was not that kid. That kid worked for them. I was there in the truck from halfway throught the first 250 moto till about 6:00.
 

WoodsRider

Sponsoring Member<BR>Club Moderator
Damn Yankees
Oct 13, 1999
2,812
0
Whenever I'm in a "pow-wow" session with a customer or possible customer, I "trash-talk" my competitor's product. Of course I used to work for the competition and know, first-hand, what their manufacturing and assembly "problems" are.
 

KawieKX125

~SPONSOR~
Oct 9, 2000
948
0
ZSR, I am not "betraying" him. I was just very confused as to why he would say this. I really don't think two low flow valves can be that much different, so I was just trying to find out if the similarities were coincedence or not.
 

alphado

Uhhh...
Jun 6, 2001
87
0
I just got my forks done bt MX-Tech East Coast Suspension last week. That guy is great, he let me watch him do the revalve job and explained everything that he was doing. Not only that but his wife took the time to entertain my wife while we were there. By the way I got to try out the suspension yesterday and it is AWESOME. I can't find enough good things to say about them, they are the best.
 

headtech@pa

Member
Jun 27, 2001
1
0
My name is Greg Workman as head tech@ Pro-Action I would like to end all the confusion. First of all our conversation was about valves and how they work, there was no trash talk about Jeremy or his company. So I will now tell the rest of your readers what I said .... the MX-Tech valvle is a direct knock-off of our valvebody that we discontiued. so if you really believe the mag test, pro-Action won because that was one of our old designs that Jeremy picked up and if he (Jeremy) would like for me to explain its flaws I will be more than happy to discuss it in an open forum. I can't say it does not work well because it does, however as I have stated it has flaws. I will stop here and hope that Jeremy will show some PROFESSIONAL curtesy and comes to see me at Red Bud so we can see to it that these rumors won't happen agian and for the record I personally like Jeremy and find him to be very knowledgable competent suspension tech and have enjoyed our conversations about suspension

Reguards Greg Workman
 

KawieKX125

~SPONSOR~
Oct 9, 2000
948
0
Thanks for clearing that up. I though for a while that you and jer had a little bad encounter. I did not ask you about this at the national because I did not want to "stir the pot" even further. Glad to know there is no animosity between you two. I don't see what "rumers" were involved here, I was just merely asking a question to clear this up and I was hoping jeremy would respond to it.

BTW, Thank you again for teaching me about the suspension. I just completed my forks and shock and they work awesome. I also did 3 of my friends bikes and did not mess up at all.
I meant to call yu to ask again where to get those little red bulbs you guys use to bleed the shocks. My dad checked at the hospital and they are not used in the medical profession any more. Then I talked to some guy at your shop and he said you get them made for you and they are not sold. Well, I just wanted to see if you could possibly sell one to me or steer me in a different direction on where to get one.

Sorry to anyone if this in some way has "pissed" them of at all. This was a totally innocent post by an inquisitive mind meant to enlighten me, not start a battle. Really, please don't take this to an extreme and an argument, it was never meant to go there.
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,555
2,237
Texas
the MX-Tech valvle is a direct knock-off of our valvebody that we discontiued

That's a pretty strong statement, I hope you're ready to back it up.
Pretty interesting how all the "suspension guru's" find their way to Jer's forum. LOL. Enjoy... who's next? Bones? ProCircus needs some representation. :silly:

(when they start bagin' on ya, you know you're doing something right, keep it up Jeremy)
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
Ok Readers I’m sorry you have to put up with this kind of stuff, It’s not right or fair.
I’m in a dilemma as I was hoping this would blow over and go away. At this point if I fail to respond then I would be voting an agreement to MR. Workman. I will not take this sitting down. As a young Entrepreneur I’ve had to work very hard and sacrifice so much for what it is that I do. I’ve been a scrappy fighter all my life and I’m also a type A person and this issue will not blow over, this is my life and my passion and you will not punch me in the face, lie, and not get a big rise out of me.



Greg,
You want to talk about professionalism? Are you aware that you are Liable? Did you stop to think that what you claim is a form of communication that can be printed? You’re obviously not to well informed are you? Where do I begin? And I advise you get your facts straight before you post again.

I’ll begin where you said you liked our conversations? If I recall we’ve talked less than 10 times. The Majority where times when you came over and ate my food at the track after we where doing working. On several occasions you talked of you’re past life’s history and how basically you came to suspension when George offered you a job? Collin and I used to talk lots of suspension and I remember a specific night in early June 1996where you flat told me you did not know what I was talking about, and that you never got that far into theory with your current company.

From what you claim, it would seem that you have invented the low flow concept? Because I use a “low flow piston” then I must have copied you, and hence this is how I knock you off right? I beg to differ emencesely, if you new something more than you do you might understand that “low-Flow” is not actually what is going on at all. My company produces a product that is 10 fold more complex than anything you have ever produced, and frankly the fact that you use the argument that the concept is the same clearly idtifies that you don’t actually know why it is better.

Let me continue on another tangent, Suspension History. Did George ever tell you that he was Noleen's biggest base valve customer? One day in July 1994 George in one of his many courting sessions told me that he used to be Noreen’s biggest base valve customer and when he took his business away (after they could not deliver them quickly enough..Key Point) they never so much as called him and asked why… I know the story you highly modified those pistons. (Right?). I had this conversation already one day along time ago when George was calling me on my break while I was teaching Highschool science classes during the down time. I think what you did was get your porting tools out and radius port openings because that improved flow right? Well here comes the history Greg, because Mr. Simions the original proprietor of the Modern Aftermarket Base valve kit invented the low flow concept. Truthfully I speculate Mr. Simmons was not conceared with low or high flow just the right flow and his piston replaced the now only on 80’s style linear valve with a shim stack. In the late 1980’s. So that worked worlds better. Noleen purchased the rights to the kit and the business and then your boss George went from there, so don’t take the credit.


Now lets go back to your new star valve, I took look and I can’t find the string that we had back in November where George is quoted in I believe in Dirt Rider Magazine talking about pushing pistons and receiving pistons and the design flaw of your old valve, and the stock valves. That article had the majority of our forum readers in stitches over your techno-jargon that has no basis in Physics. ONE THING GREG and PA, the readers of DRN don’t fall for BS.. These are intelligent people many of who graduated from maybe not just High school but also colloge they don’t think that midvalves push fluid through base-valves and you can’t tell them something that has no basis in Physics is actually working the way you have invented it to. The point is “Turbulence” or backpressure does not cause a check valve to float. I think that you’ll find that if you actually put some solid design into your valve and had them deburred, (the sealing face ) to the point where the washer will sit firmly you won’t have any other problems. Shall I dig deeper yet; how about your shock piston that I’m sure I copied as well. Lets see yours shears off piston rings about ever 20 hours and is then blamed on matience or this or that. Can you say design flaw? How long did it take you to figure out AL wears faster than steel, and is not as strong so you might want to make the wall a little thicker, or consider surface treatments. (At least 4 years) But I don’t think that your valve will work like mine because whether it be shims or design you won’t do it, you’d go even more brook. So if you want to save further embarrassment leave it and I won’t requote the article in DR. Did you every here about your CA dude who thinks that KYB forks with 32mm flow more oil (Through the base valve) than the 28mm KYB forks. Did he ever tell you about that? During the MXA test your guy should have been out turning clickers, dialing bikes in for the riders, but instead he was from my perspective, to afraid that I might embarrass him in front of everyone again.




I’ve included some cool photos of your products and Simmons basevalves. I can get some Noleen pistons that actually are machined way better than yours and post them up to, the Noleen valve is very similar to yours other than the porting. Take into consideration that I wrote this late and had very little time to document it. If clarification is required I can find exact diameters for more ideal comaprissions. I can’t seem to find any of my sheared off 46mm PA pistons. I have some and will surely get those up to illustrate how not to design a piston.

I guess lots of people are really worried, or challenged, or something. I welcome good competion, this kind of stuff sucks. Play you best I’ll play mine and well see who wins, It’s frustrating at times everybody wants to get a shot at you I'm getting used to it. The ironic thing is I have made a few enimies and lots of friends in my day.. It seems that those who hate me the most have the least reason too.

I'll see you at Redbud Greg, Just Like High point, and Southwick.. Are you going to make me put a Chevy Trucks banner over my Truck again? (Our riders and everyone we talked to enjoyed that.) In fact it’s hanging in my shop now! I was a complete nobody there with John, parked legally and (REFUSING work) looking after our Riders and a few matters of importance. I don’t understand how you welcome debate when you tried chasing us out of the national. Seems like a mixed message. BTW... I'll see you plenty more times this year. If you want wait till you get a big crowd of customers, we can have that open debate?
Regards,
Jer
 
Last edited:

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
On the left is a early model Noleen Valve this was taking from a 89 KX. Over the next few years the 20mm and the 25 changed to look similar to the 98 PA valve pictured. The major diffrence being the porting work on the entrances and exits. The PA valve is rough and if you look you will see that the top patern is not even square or concentrick. The onrings crhronically fall off beacuse the grove is not concentrict to the ID. I've spared these guys the indignety of showing the piston exit face as it is the side that really maters. I'm still working on good photo software but I will folllow up. With better pictues. Sorry About the WP refrence, I was working on a WP distributor addvertisment and just took the phots on top of the add..I did not intend them to be drug into this.
 

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07

Uhhh...
Jun 16, 2001
24
0
Originally posted by KawieKX125
I did not ask you about this at the national because I did not want to "stir the pot" even further

.....so do it on a global scale....... more discreet eh :confused:
 

buffmaster

Mi. Trail Riders
Member
Apr 11, 2001
559
0
GO JEREMY! YEEEEEEE-HAAA! I don't like to jump on the band wagon too often, but I really like it when someone who talks crap get shown the error of their ways.:)
 

John Curea

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Feb 29, 2000
177
0
Greg
You talk about "hoping Jeremy shows some professional courtesy", yet you openly bash MX-TECH without any back up information, and expect the thread to end. And continue in private away from all these viewers??!! Since you are a "newby" on DRN, let me give you some schooling.

Do you by any chance realize that this website is the largest of its type. As of this morning, there have been 904,147 posts viewed since 5-1-2001, granted there are quite a few different forums, but a good percentage of those posts are viewed on this forum. The long and the short of it is that your half hearted attempt to bash MX-TECH is read by a HUGE amount of knowledgeable readers.

This is usually not that big of a deal, EXCEPT that you represent one of the larger suspension companies, now that you managed to appoint yourself as thier spokesman, you have figured out a way to discredit Pro Action in front of a HUGE audience. I personally think it is entertaining, and I am sure your competition applauds your decision.

If you have paid any attention to this forum, you know there is some very proffessional dialogue pertaining to suspension. For your sake, I hope you are ready to back up the claim that you stake, and take center stage on this forum in front of thousands of viewers (read -potential customers).

The power of the internet is awesume, it brings knowledge and personal opinions to the masses, where once we had to rely on "word of mouth" for spreading information about the quality of different companies . It is also a huge tool for "reputable businesses" to be able to "get the word out" about their quality, on the flip side, it can be devastating to companies who fall short in the eyes of the consumers.

Oh by the way Greg, that was my boxvan at HighPoint with the MX-TECH associate logo. Actually making the promoter group cover up our logo was truly flattering, your smartest business decision would to have acted like I didnt exist. Instead you managed to increase my level of commitment and desire to bring forth the high quality of MX-TECH Suspension components and customer service to the public.

The ball is back in your court (remember, this was your idea). It is obvious that you have 3 options:

1. Proudly take center stage, represent Pro Action, and back up your potentially liable claim.

2. Run and hide.

3. Take aim at your other foot.

Take Care, John Curea
MX-TECH East Coast Suspension
 

roosteater

~SPONSOR~
Dec 27, 1999
216
0
Wow...you mean this guy actually MADE the promoter cover up the MX TECH logo!? What a candyass move that was!! How cowardly. It really shows how much PA must fear competition. If your product is so great, shouldn't you welcome it?

I can guarantee one thing: PA will not be getting any business from me or any of my fellow riders!
 

KawieKX125

~SPONSOR~
Oct 9, 2000
948
0
Before we go pointing any fingers, I think we should hear Greg's side of the story.
BTW, I wish you guys did not have to cover up your banner. I would have LOVED to meet you at southwick and I really am quite sorry I could not. Do you (john) ever dome to the east for other trips?
 

Max Factor

Sponsoring Member
Oct 18, 2000
155
0
Originally posted by KXVET#207

now that you managed to appoint yourself as thier spokesman, you have figured out a way to discredit Pro Action in front of a HUGE audience.
Perhaps there's been no reply because there is actually a person with authority and brains at P.A., and they've since re-voked his self appointed spokesmans privillage? :eek:
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,452
0
Charlestown, IN
Many folks do business in many different ways. I, myself, have learned to NEVER bad talk your competition, unless your paying customer asks you to.
It's like a vicious circle when you do.
KawieKX125....IMHO, it was very unkewl to even bring this up here.:(
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,452
0
Charlestown, IN
Hey zsr,
I realise it take you guys from 'accross the pond' a lil longer to catch on!:D
But hang in there! :)
 

KawieKX125

~SPONSOR~
Oct 9, 2000
948
0
Jaybird, I did not bring this up here with the intention of making sour feelings. I just wanted to know why Jer's valve could be considered a copy. I did not do this for the purpose of making a rivalry, honest!:) I really think, for the sake of the two companies credibilities, this should be locked or deleted.:think
 

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