Jetting

[jeff smith]

I have a 03 200 live in mich.The stock jetting was very rich. 1 moved the clip up to the 2 grove better stil rich. 2 Went to a 45 pilot 158 main now I have a bog on bottom cant seem to adjust out with airscrew. 3 Removed air box lid same thing. 4 Still rich on main went to 155 just cant seem to get rid of bog on bottom can my pilot still be to rich. Runs great on top. Thanks Jeff

 

[JCW]

I've got a jetting thread going also, but I can tell you that with any combination of jetting I've tried, my 03 KDX 200 would always bog if the needle was on the bottom or next to bottom (rich) clip. I can't tell if you are 2nd from the bottom on yours or what. If so, move it to the middle or next to the top (on the lean side) and try it. I've heard several people mention this also. Just a thought-

Good luck-
JCW

 

[jaguar]

Of course you should try a leaner pilot jet. I've got a 42 in my bike.

 

[motorpsycho]

Jeff's clip is second from the top, btw..........I personally think that his problem could be very simple and easily overlooked. Jeff is fanatical about his bike, always looks showroom. Oils his chain after every ride, adjust it as well ;p gotta get an o-ring man! He also cleans and re-oils his air filter every ride, maybe even after just firing it up in the garage, could an over oiled air filter cause his problem? I think so. We messed around with the air screw today and it did not seem to make any difference. I have heard of guys over-oiling K&N filters on their cars with the same results. Probably his problem as well. A 42 pilot should help as well IMO.
What method of oiling the filter is everyone using? What filter oil as well??
Thanks, Scott.........Jeff's mechanic and brother

 

[jaguar]

Make sure the transmission drain line isn't dumping oil onto the filter which of course could cause it to be over-oiled.
I clean my filter with dish soap and then the next day after its dry I spray it with Motul filter spray inside and out and then work it over with my hands to make sure it penetrates all the foam.

 

[Wolf]

Mine is a 2000, I am battling the same symptoms. (PC Pipe, lid removed)
I went to 1173N needle, 2nd from the top, 42 pilot and 152 main. AS at 1.5 turns. I still experience a bog upon take off in first or 2nd gear, it cleans up after that.
Unfortunately I don't have much time to test, so I have basically given up (for now:)) and just ride.
The 42 pilot helped some, though now I have the symptom of run away idle upon cold start. I may also try a 150 main if I find time.

 

[wanaride]

Jeff, I feel your pain with jetting on the 03 200...I battled mine for about two weeks before I reached an acceptable level of performance. I live in NC and I'm using Main=155, Pilot=42, Needle=2nd clip from top, AS=2 turns out, airbox snorkel removed and lid drilled. Runs great up top but if I lug around the yard she will smoke quite a bit. Doesn't smoke much as long as I'm gassing it.

I haven't heard of filter over-oiling being a problem but that makes sense, I'll check on this thread later to see what others say about that.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Try a differnt needle. Right now I'm using a CEK.

Set-up for my bike (see description in my signature) is 152/CEK-2/42/AS 3/4.

As far as too much oil in a filter, I just can't see that as a problem as long as the excess is squeezed out. Otherwise the excess will just drip out of the airbox.

 

[canyncarvr]

'Soak with oil, wring out excess,' is commonly what you find on the 'how-to' of filter oiling.

Not necessary to use that much oil.

Still, an over-oiled filter will show itself more with more throttle.

Keep in mind that most oils need to 'dry' before use. With the carrier still in the filter, it's going to be real rich!

A poor main jet choice will effect the carb all the way to the bottom. Seems to be some jumping back and forth between the two. You're wasting your time. Set the main first. Period. A 155 probably isn't too far off, but I don't read that you checked it.

From there choose a pilot based on throttle and AS response. I've read quite a few times, 'I can't get rid of my off-idle bog. The AS doesn't effect it.'

THAT almost invariably turns out to be wrong. The AS does effect a properly selected pilot jet (in a clean carb).

'Of course you should try a leaner pilot jet.'

Yup.

Filter oil? Notoil. Can't beat it. Yeah...my opinion.

.....It's fact too! ;)

BTW, an instant response is certainly possible. There isn't some amount of 'bog' that can't be dialed out.

Well.....I'm assuming my bike isn't different from every other kdx on the planet. It's not that speshul!

 

[motorpsycho]

Seems to me that there is an inherant problem with the carb selection from Kawasaki for the 200.........Think about the pimply-faced kid you knew in high school that bought the 71 Nova with a 301 and a two-barrel carb. The first thing the kid did was get rid of that puny 500cfm two barrel and put on a 750cfm Holley. Hows it run now, junior?? Kinda seems like (in a nutshell) the same problem many guys are experiencing with the 200. Over-carburated. Sure, occasionaly the jetting will be dead nutz, but seems like this is not the case for most. Rejetting, changing the needle, slippin the slide, swizzeling the knutin valve, all trying to cover up the main problem. Poor carb selection from the factory. Kawasaki, in a valient effort to make our favorite little forest monster scream up top took the easy way out. High rpm's take fuel, lots of it, and Kawasaki got that part right. But low rpm throttle response takes air VELOCITY. Not VOLUME. What the factory should have done in my opinion, is spend some $$ on cylinder head work, better cam timing and decent exhaust. But then they would not be able to sell them for the bargain they are. Dont get me wrong, I think its a great bike. But it seems to have been made into a compromise.
We *WILL* get Jeffs bike to rip tho!!

 

[canyncarvr]

I don't worry a whole lot about cam timing on my bike. ;)

With a .040" short timing chain set and a multiple keyway crank gear I did get my duster cam timing dead on, though!

Anyway...I don't think the 35mm is too big for the 200. Yeah..velocity and volume are different issues. Put them together and that's a good thing.

Hhhmmm.. put a 2BBL carb on the 200? Maybe add a divider plate on the downdraft side to rarify the airstream, reduce turbulence past the slide (pretty much the same thing) and increase velocity on the bottom while not hurting volume on the top.......

What a great idea!!!

I call ron @ rb-designs to see if he can finagle something like that.

We'll call it.....uh......howabout 'The RB Carb Mod'?? We can find someone of virtue, honesty and integrity (maybe Canadian Dave?) to come up with something like:

The results are outstanding and its become one of my favorite mods. The off idle carburetion is excellent with clean crisp throttle response. You can easily lug the bike in a gear higher that you could normally and chug your way through the slickest conditions by almost eliminating unwanted rear wheel spend then when things oven up a little off you go. The bottom end becomes very 4-stroke like.

Yep. Gotta call ron right now!

Whew! I must've taken two SA pills by mistake this morning!! ;)

 

[wibby]

Whew! I must've taken two SA pills by mistake this morning!!

I thought you took 'em all the time! ;)

 

[canyncarvr]

What's THAT supposed to mean!!?? ;)

 

[wibby]

Did I write that??

Graveyard must be having ill effects on me brain :confused:

Guess I forgot, I'm usually the SA! :laugh:

 

[electra549]

I think the both of ya are on the same medication!

Nice riding with ya Saturday Wibby! Up for more of the same this Saturday???

Sorry to intrude in this thread. I'll get back in my box now.

 

[motorpsycho]

Yeah, *cams*....oops. Slipped from bikes to cars in my rant, sorry. Flame all ya want carver, truth be known that if the factory would have done their homework instead of trying to make these bikes on the cheap, possibly they would be a little less finiky(excuse spelling) about having the optimal jet, needle, slide selection.
Volume AND velocity together?? Not naturally aspirated(oops, cars again) Least not without spending serious $$. But then, sorta defeats the purpose of buying a KDX anyway.
Have fun, ride hard, eat dirt.

 

[wibby]

Nice riding with ya Saturday Wibby! Up for more of the same this Saturday???

You bet!! Hopefully I'll have caught up on my sleep by then! (I practically slept all day again)
:eek:

 

[canyncarvr]

Nothing wrong with cams and bikes. At least my 700SC hopes that's true!

....and it's naturally aspirated just like the kdx is.

Certainly you'll get more volume on an engine with a huffer whether it be roots, belt or exhaust driven.

I digress.

My point is that more attention paid by kawi to carb choice would still leave riders with optimal jet, needle and slide selections having to be made.

'Optimal' is the key word.

Some riders like an mx type hit, some don't. Some like high rev screaming, some want to ride on a stump-pulling lower end. Some actually have a use for first gear, some have no use for it at all.

Each of those situations is going to call for 'optimal' jet, needle and slide selections. No way kawi is going to make the kdx fit everyone's personal idea of what is 'right'.

So, they put it together with a jetset that will be safe 500' below sea level at 0ºF (for those that never tweak anything)...and they are, well...safe.

The fact that messing with carburetion can lead to positive (and different) effect doesn't mean kawi screwed up with the keihin pwk35.

What fun would a bike be that you couldn't mess with it, anyway? If I wanted a ready 'out-of-the-box' machine, I'd have a ktm. ;)

.......thassa joke, son!


What do I know. I don't even HAVE the oem pwk35 on my bike! ;)

 

[hcrhoades]

I live in FL, and recently had a 240 piston installed in a kdx200. Wasn't by choice the shop ordered the wrong one. I am having trouble getting it running right. The shop recommended I put the needle in the second from bottom position. It ran fine at higher rpms but was sluggish at the lower end. When it wouldn't run I looked at the exhaust port it looked like there was tar in it (was clean when it started). I can only surmise I have original jets and needle (bought it used 2 months ago). Its a '96. Can anyone help? Kids are anxious to ride and can't seem to get it running consistently. THanks.

 

[Rhon]

Canyncarvr,

I am new to this site. I just bought a pair of new 2003 KDX200's for my Son and me. We live in the Sacramento area, so we are about 150 feet above sea level.

After reading all of the posts in this thread and another thread, you seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to jetting. I haven't opened up the carbs yet on our new bikes, but from what I have been able to tell, the stock jets are 48/160 (correct?). Also, do you know if the stock needle setting is the middle slot?

I found your comment interesting about the Kawasaki engineers jetting for 500 feet below sea level at 0 degrees F as a safety factor. I am a civil engineer, so I can relate to using a "safety factor" before handing something over to the public for their use.

Do you feel that 45/155 would be better for a stock 2003 KDX200 at sea level, assuming 70-80 degrees air temp?

Also, I am thinking of replacing the stock pipe and silencer with an FMF Gnarly woods pipe and FMF "Q" silencer, and doing the common airbox mod. Would a 42/152 jet set be better with that set up? Should the needle setting be changed a bit with that set up?

Any info/insight/opinion you are willing to share would be appreciated.

Thanks!

.....Rhon.

 

[canyncarvr]

I just read stuff and tune my bike.

I'm off the forum for a couple of weeks. I'll catch up later....if you haven't got it sorted out by then!! ;)

***edit**

Check the link at the top of this forum for CDave's page.

...or maybe you already did, cuz the numbers you list are pretty much what CDave lists for the 200. Anyway....the jet numbers you list are pretty close. Again..no-one can tell you how to jet your bike (given that they aren't with you, listening, observing) and 'jetting by the book' can only get you in the ballpark.

Yes, oem carbs come with the clip in the middle position. Usually. Dealers have been known to change carb setups thinking they are doing the buyer a favor. Maybe they are.....maybe they aren't.

You are looking at the -35 pipe cuz....why? As long as it's a knowledgeable decision, that's fine, but know what you're after when you choose a pipe. The -35 is probably the choice for a 200 that is going to be used for any single-track woods type riding. Personally, I've only recently found a setup that allows for a decent bottom end with the -30 (rev) pipe..but that requires a rather spendy DFII reedblock. But...you end up with some of the best of both worlds. A bottom end that works, and an upper rev band that hits hard (depending on the needle configuration you choose) and spins w-a-y up there.

Your flavor.....your cup-o-tea.

I'm in an edit screen,not looking at your post....but do make sure that whatever S/A you get includes the 'A' part......a spark arrestor.

.......or stay out of the woods!!

 

[wibby]

Couple weeks? :(

Gonna be awefully boring around here :silly:


Great riding with you and Electra today! It was a blast! :aj:

 

[Rhon]

Thanks CC.

One more question (for CC or anyone else to answer):

What is the quickest and easiest "step by step" process to physically change the main and pilot jets? My 2003 KDX200 is new, so I have not taken any wrenches or screwdrivers to it yet. Do I need to remove the carb completely? Or can I just loosen the connections on the upstream and downstream sides of the carb and rotate it to access the lower portion of the carb? Do I need to remove the float bowl?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

...Rhon.

 

[CaptainObvious]

(1) Loosen clamps on airbox boot and intake boot;
(2) Twist carb (bottom towards shifter side);
(3) TURN OFF FUEL PETCOCK;
(4) Remove large drain plug on bottom of float bowl;
(5) Remove main jet (dead-center of hole).

 

[Rhon]

Thanks RV6. How about the pilot jet?

(By the way, an RV6?? Nice kit! Fast. I used to fly Cessnas, but now the only flying I plan to do is on my KDX200. Funny though, I still have to worry about leaning the mixture. Some things never change!)

....Rhon.