Just a thought for STM's

[WoodsRider]

I read through the member hierarchy post and agree that it should be nuked. I'm sure Okie saw this coming. The site pretty much had open access to all members. A year and a half ago the support team member group started up. One of the main issues has been the cost of running this site. I immediately joined because I like this site and it's intended purpose. The side benefits of being an STM really weren't that important to me. Now access has been restricted to many of the features that made this site what it is. People can subscribe for a measly $12/year (or suck up to Irish) and have access to the features they once had for free.

No matter what, people are going to complain because they now have to pay for something that was once free. I'm sure the "I hate DRNers" are having a field day with this over on RMD or other sites that I no longer visit. Personally I could care less, but what really bugs me is the wolf-pack mentality that many STM's and subscribers have when a registered member questions the loss of features that were once free. I'm sure that I've been guilty of this in the past, but upon reflection I see how it makes us look bad.

As off-road motorcycle enthusiasts we need to stick together. Ganging up and slamming someone who participates on this site only shows how poorly we act. I'd be much happier if everyone used as much ascii to bombard our politicians with e-mail to help keep public lands available for motorized recreation.

I'll get off my soapbox now. :|

 

[whyzee]

Woods, I see your point.
and agree ... especially about nuking these threads from the get-go.
I used a lot of restraint in my posts there, I think an STM's position should be less "its only $12.00, pay up", and more of a reminder of "what you have is free, please stop complaining" but that's just my opinion. Personally I'm just going to ignore those types of posts from now on.

 

[Treejumper]

Originally posted by 96whyzee125
Personally I'm just going to ignore those types of posts from now on.

 

Bingo, that's what i do. As soon as i see what type of post it is, i just click the back arrow. It works for me.

 

[RM_guy]

Very good Woods. I was going to post something very much like that but you covered all the points. I agree with you 100% (don't let it go to your head though :debil:)

 

[Okiewan]

I just came in here to post something similar... Bill beat me to it.

There is an issue with Nuking or deleting posts, many will say we are censoring, etc., as they always have. So how about this;

If one of these posts come-up, someone can reply with a reasonable response, the rest of us leave it alone. It does appear that we gang-up, but on the otherhand, some of the statements people make can deserve it, lol.

When we close a post after someone replies, I get crap that we didn't allow them to respond... it's a lose-lose deal a lot of the time. I'll just have to deal with it.

I know everyone just wants to defend the site and I appreciate that there are so many that care about DRN. It just needs to be understood that many will never see it as anything more than just another site on the web. All the replies in the world aren't going to change their mind. Too bad too, cause the site is so much more than that.

The day may come that this becomes a subscription only site, I'm not worried about content, it seems that 90% of the people I care about, support the site already. All we really stand to lose is the noise. That's a tough decision for many reasons, one of which; it'll mean the end of potential advertisers to offset the cost. On the otherhand, usage would go down and therefore so will costs. There is a lot to think thru and I really don't want it to come to that, but it is a possibility I suppose. The worst thing is losing impact on a lot of new riders who may never have the opportunity to learn from the site.

Some of the mods are suggesting a "pay to post" model, which may be a decent compromise if the current program doesn't work-out. I hate to do anything that drastic, but it seems that the members that will subscribe... have.

I've been spending all my time trying to come-up with benefits for supporting, pretty tough deal, there is only so much to offer. The latest is the new email software I just bought and installed, not sure if many see that as useful or not. All anyone see's right now is what I've "taken away", not that there are things being added. One of these days I hope to come-up with something that makes them happy and makes subscribing a no-brainer.

ANNNYYYYWAAAYYYY...
(did I ramble or what?)

 

[CanadianRidr]

. I'm sure the "I hate DRNers" are having a field day with this over on RMD

I wouldn't know because I never went to RMD to check, I have no reason to. None what so ever.

I see this is getting to people, and this is what gets to me.

I just have some questions, why?
Who cares?


Pretty simple, Just post a sticky on top with a equation for the costs, say if you don't like it leave. Who cares, done deal.

The ones that deserve to be here and belong here will pay.

I hate all the whining, I go to DRN to talk with friends, give and get help. And overall just have a great time, I love reading all the posts. I don't give a crap if some kid wants to wine that he has to buy pre-mix and that 12 dollars is "retarded". You don't like it LEAVE. YOU ARN'T WANTED. I work my ass off, I go to school and im still broke. But ill shell out cash if I have to, why? Because look at my posts, look at the time I spend on here, look at the FREE advice Gore and Wilkey give me not to mention all the others, look at the amazing deals friends give me on here.

People say we are all aggressive and rude and blah blah blah.

I say we are too nice to these people, if they want to bitch, leave, done and done. :thumb:

 

[biglou]

Yeah, it's a tough one.  I figure that in posts like that, someone will get the point out there.  No need for me to jump in, unless I happen to be first.  Maybe once locked, Okie, leave the invite to email you personally like you did in another thread (in the For Sale forum, I think?).  That seems the honorable thing to do.  Controlling a riot, but leaving the door open for further discussion.

But, to reiterate, those that don't get it, just never will.  RR's last post stated that there are so many free sites out there.  I know the "You get what you pay for" card has been played many times.  That didn't seem to sink in, so why even bother trying with this one?  There's a fair amount of folk out there who truly believe that this is the Evil Empire.  Funny thing is, once you meet people in person, they seem to change their mind a bit.  How many people have we collectively met on the track/trails that asked us what DRN was?  And then promised that they would have to go check it out after meeting us?  Quite a few in my travels! :)

And CR's right, it's friends and family here for me, too.  In here (stm forum) we're just preachin' to the choir!

 

[High Lord Gomer]

When I saw that he had responded again, I closed it so that he would have the last word (as poor as it was). Considering how much we as DRNers and as riders in general owe Ken James, I tacked his comments onto the end...and I'll be damned if Lou didn't sneak in there before I got the door locked.

I better go check the fridge and see what else Lou got into...

 

[WoodsRider]

Dang it Lou, you grabbed that leftover pizza I was saving for breakfast. :)

 

[Tony Eeds]

Major ditto ...

One point I would add, is the fact that we should remember that the flax that has surfaces in the boards has mostly been by folks that consider themselves long term "supporters" of DRN.  Like Woods, they should have seen this coming.

Tony

 

[Okiewan]

Oh and by the way... I stopped rading the other boards a long time ago. How can I care what they say if I don't know what it is? :silly: I can get pretty pissed reading some of that stuff so I ignore it.

There are people that actually know what's going on with DRN, on the outside and behind the scenes & those that support the site, their opinions are the only one's that matter.

 

[XRpredator]

I just don't get 'em. Before I became a LSTMer, I kinda felt guilty about spending time on the site and not spending money to help it out. (especially when I saw how many freaking posts I had!) Then, after someone jumped in and gave me a STM deal, I decided what the heck, they can give that to someone else and I'll pony up the dough for a Lifer. Now there's the $12 deal, and I can't believe people would balk at it! Cripes, I spend more than that on sausage biscuits from McDumpster in a week! (mmmmmm . . . sweet ambrosia!) I would also bet a bunch of those guys that are doing all the whining buy the "yuppie coffees" on a daily basis.

I guess I just don't get why people think it's a bad thing for some guy hammering out a bunch of code in his spare bedroom all hours of the night and day shouldn't be able to at least try and break even doing it. But then I'm just an unedumacated backwoods goof in the wilds of North Idaho . . . :confused:

 

[BSWIFT]

Originally posted by XRpredator
But then I'm just an unedumacated backwoods goof in the wilds of North Idaho . . . :confused:

Secratary! ;)   I enjoy threads like that every so often.  Gives everyone a chance to vent.  Anyone that is unlucky enough to catch the brunt well, they asked for it. 

 

[oldguy]

I agree with the let em post and ignore it. If they then have a tantrum in order to get attention we can handle that. I usually avoid those threads just because of the 'piling on' and the fact that I have only so much time and won't waste it on them.

BTW 96whyzee125's answer was the best analogy I have seen in years

 

[kmccune]

Ditto what oldguy said.

Kevin

 

[Sawblade]

Ok guys, I rarely get involved in this type of conversation but I'm throwing in some food for thought on this subject. When I first found DRN I didn't know what to expect being a newbie net surfer at the time. I spent a few months checking out the site before I decided this was a place to call home and joined up. DRN is very structured and moderated extremely well compared to just about anywhere else. This was a major reason why I joined. Earlier this year I became a STM. Why? Not because of the benefits, because I wanted to give back for the knowledge, family, friends and laughs I get from this place.

Having said that. There is an arrogances from some long term members that comes through loud and clear in many posts about the $12 subscription and lose of access to different functions. I understand the passion folks have for this place and can see why they do. Who would have thought that a dirtbike site would be a place you could get to know people, gain knowledge, and enjoy your sport? Not me, when I first found DRN anyway. I agree one post with a simple reply is enough. When everyone jumps on the bandwagon what does that look like to someone checking out DRN that is thinking about joining? Who knows, but they may become a respected member that YOU call a friend and riding partner. Think about it.

I also feel that the talk about what it cost to run DRN should be keep in the inner circle of mods and maybe the STM's and not with the general membership. I don't know the cost of what it takes to run this house, but there is a cost. Nothing is free. Fee packages again in my opinion should be presented in what ever form they take in the future as improvements/benefits. Eliminate the talking points of cost to run DRN and you may eliminate the emotion that is tied to this subject.

 

[Jaybird]

I don't care if a person is a STM or a complete freeloading spammer...whatever this site allows is fine with me.
I choose not to freeload.
There were reasons I wanted to be a support teamer, and I got what incentives were available then, as well as much more.
Choose to participate or to not...no biggie, this is the free world. Plenty of bandwidth for those who don't like this place elsewhere.
Some folks drive Ford's, some Chebbys....and you can darn sure bet they had to pay for them too. Also, if I want a moonroof and a hydralics set-up, I pay for it. It's simple....and what the vendors, who sold me the product or service I required, do with the money they got from me is none of my damn business. Nor is it Okie's responsibility to tell anyone what any money is or is not for, PERIOD. It's simply NUNYA.

I like this place. When I don't, I'll mosey on down a piece.

 

[CAL]

I understand what Bill and Sawblade are talking about.  I also agree with Okie in that who ever is going to support, will and does...no matter how many replies or benefits.   I just get tired of people complaining about $12.  Heck, my dad is talking about becoming a support team member and he hasn't ever seen DRN or made one post! :silly:  He wants to support DRN because he has been to MWSF and Dirtweek '01 & '02 and had the times of his life!

 

 

 

[MrLuckey]

Originally posted by CAL
Heck, my dad is talking about becoming a support team member and he hasn't ever seen DRN or made one post!

I guess thats the 'thing' though Corey. There is a world of difference between great people like your dad and the sniveling twits that seem to be so prevolent these days.

I bet if any of those complaining about it really thought DRN was making big bucks you'd see a frivolous lawsuit claiming that Okie had given this site out for free, thusly creating ADDICTS and is now using this ADDICTION to extort money out of his victims :)
I can see it now, Dell30rb being represented by Johnnie Cochran :confused:

 

[Senior KX Rider]

Originally posted by TTRGuy


I guess thats the 'thing' though Corey. There is a world of difference between great people like your dad and the sniveling twits that seem to be so prevolent these days

Well said Eddie. :thumb:

 

[truespode]

It does appear that we gang-up

I can see why people think that but it is the Internet... everyone thinks that what they have to say is a better way to say it. I know I don't post to a thread after Patman thinking I'm hitting someone in the head... I post thinking I have a different way of portraying the same sentiment. It is more my ego than my temper or desire to jump on someone.

The day may come that this becomes a subscription only site, I'm not worried about content,

:(

I hope it never becomes subscription only.

it seems that 90% of the people I care about, support the site already. All we really stand to lose is the noise.

I think we will end up losing new members who could contribute a lot. Is it worth the sacrifice? I really don't know or believe one way or another as it relates to DRN as a whole.

I know that I'm willing to tolerage 1000 crappy posts for one detailed post about a project bike that Big Lou put together or a ride report from a new member who is trying to get back in the sport or a wee-knee from SFC Crash. If it was just subscription I would miss the new additions that may pass on us. Even with read only the initial reaction to DRN may not be enough to attract some... but how many will we lose? Would it matter?

<banging head against wall>

I stopped reading the other boards a long time ago

Shoot... I still visit 10 or so boards a day when I have the time (which is limited more and more each week). I like the variety. However, nothing has been said about DRN on RMD for a while though... so far.

RMD goes through its spurts of greatness and gobligook. I still enjoy RMD a lot. DRN is number one on my list but RMD and MT fight for second (with a lot of regional boards thrown in too :) ).

I'd love for DRN to stay the way it is today but maybe open up with more of the vendor forums and charge vendors for their own forum. I'd like to see more members see the benefit but trully I don't expect it. Most of these guys are the same that buy from the vendor who gives the absolute lowest cost then complains about the cost and the lack of customer service. They are quick to tell everyone who the should buy from and who they shouldn't based simply on cost or how quick the guy behind the counter with 2 phones ringing gets to them.

Their understanding of someone elses time is directly proportional to how much attention they get.

As a group, many of those I have met are on the stingy side and only want to spend money on themselves... they just do not feel that DRN directly benefits themself. I can't think of any idea that may one day change that perception. The bad thing is if they do not get the info here they will find info somewhere else... it may not be accurate but that won't matter to their ego :(

This is one topic which I have a lot of ideas but do not think of any of them are right.

Ivan

 

[IrishEKU]

Originally posted by TTRGuy


I can see it now, Dell30rb being represented by Johnnie Cochran :confused:

:) :) :thumb:

Good one Eddie!

 

[_SOLO_]

Can't we just talk about dirtbikes? You know, those things with two wheels, knobbies, and an engine.

I also don't think that was the greatest crack on Dell either.

 

[MrLuckey]

Oh well, I tried to remember a couple of the old 'real pain in the butt usernames' but my memory failed me. It wasn't really meant to be a knock on Dell persay. The guy I really wanted to use was the one who called everyone 'tightie wearin homos' :thumb:

I'll try to come up with a better one next time :)

 

[_SOLO_]

I knew you could do somethin better than that!