KDX 200 vs KTM 200

[canyncarvr]

thermal

re: why does it vibrate so bad.

Already said. No bar isolation.

re: turn better

I've heard from a suspension tuner (reputation built on pumpkins) that ktms..200 anyway.. have NEVER handled as well as any 'jap bike', that the austrian powers that be have TRIED to figure that out....just can't! He said that if ktm exactly copied a japanese bike's front end, they might fix it...but they weren't about to do that (the ktm people knowing everything there is to know and all that). The 200 is known for its 'push'. That's where the 'stink bug' part comes from. You've seen one of them? Have their backsides jacked up into the air, running around on their noses? (well..if they had a nose, they'd be on it:) )

That's a ktm.

I've also been told (I've never ridden one) that a ktm250 doesn't have that problem.

It's something you'd get used to, if you are good enough. But then if you ride a '77 taco..you could probably get used to ANYthing!

 

[ktm033]

I have a 96 xr 200 and have done the following mods:

custom titanium tubular frame.
Billy Bob 283 big bore kit
custom stainless steel straight pipe with cherry bomb muffler
Billy Bob XR supercharger
Ohlins front and rear
excel talon wheels
nitrous tank
Billy Bob XR fuel injection
Clarke RM tank
Trials seat off from a Montesa trials bike
Engine blueprinted by Billy Bob

The bike weighs in at a wet 147 lbs and produces 92 HP on the Billy Bob dyno, there ain't no stinkin KDX that ever was built or rebuilt that could touch the Billy Bob factory XR!!!!

 

[DANIEL JOSEPH]

Originally posted by Duneman
but I have dragged 2 KTM200's 1 stock and 1 modified, and won both times.;)

Let me start by saying the mods on your bike are impressive and I don't own a KTM 200. I, nor does anyone else in here use thier dirt bikes for drag races. I don't know about you but I use my bike to ride in the woods.

 

[MassKDX]

What is the PSI on the boost? What type of nitrous you using dry or wet? What is the shot of the NOS? How far did you have to retard the timing on this critter? What type of fuel are you using? What is the heat range of your plug? All of these "things that me me go hmmmm".:scream: :scream:

 

[woods_rider1]

Since I have owned a KDX, and currently a KTM, I will chime in here for a second. I am not going to bash either side with yours is faster, or this one is cheaper, or any of that. While I owned my KDX, I had many, many fun hours on it, never had a mechanical failure, or ran out of gas. (never even had to use reserve once in 8 years) As everyone here has done, I dropped way too much money into my bike for the performance return I got. I had the suspension totally redone, and all of the intake/exhaust and motor work done (except for a big bore kit) and the truth was, I always wanted a little more. Now since I bought my KTM, I have bought a 13T sprocket ($13) and a single taper needle jet ($5), thats it as far as performance mods. And this bike has WAAAAAAAY more potential than I have ability. On the first ride my riding buddies commented on my increase in speed and better riding technique. I myself have noticed that I just fly over stuff that would give my KDX fits and make me cringe. To those who claim to have had such bad experiences with KTM's, all I can tell you is after one ride I was hooked, the power and suspension was so significantly better that it took everything I had to wipe the stupid grin from my face. (its like the first time you drive a real sports car and push it to your limit, and know it can take more) everytime I ride it, it amazes me more and more. This is just from my personal experience.

 

[kdx357]

The bike weighs in at a wet 147 lbs and produces 92 HP on the Billy Bob dyno, there ain't no stinkin KDX that ever was built or rebuilt that could touch the Billy Bob factory XR!!!!

what are theese 92 shetlands :moon: huh a kdx is a far beter bike than any xr200 and billybobs dino must be a little off:moon:

 

[DougRoost]

Hey Duneman, how deep are you into your KDX?

I'd sure like to know how much $$ you have in your KDX with all those mods. I've looked at the 2 of these and am the guy gooby was talking about on it. The problem is I've been there/done that on my KLX, which was cool since I got a good deal on the bike used and it is personalized to my liking without breaking me.

However, for this comparison, new there is ~$1500-1800 price diff between the KDX200 and the KTM 200 E/XC. For my weight (165lb) the stock KTM suspension is perfect, vs. having to do the suspension thing on the KDX. I also need an O-ring chain, new pipe and silencer, wide footpegs, and a few other goodies to just make it something I could ride a moderate hare scramble on. Oh, and have to lose that goofy kickstand, too. By the time I put aluminum handlebars, better rims (the KDX site says the stockers are really soft), have it ported, etc., I've sunk serious bucks into it and could have had a KTM. Even then I wouldn't have a powdercoated frame, hydraulic clutch, USD forks with REBOUND ADJUSTMENT and some of the other goodies that come stock on the KTM 200 E/XC.

I think what we're all saying is the same thing one of the mags said a couple years ago. Both are very good choices for a woods bike -- probably can't go wrong with either. But if you intend to race, the KTM is a better starting poin (even does very well on an MX track). However, if you just want a very fun, comfortable bike that can also be made quite competitive by sinking $$ into it (and you're comfortable with this, especially when it's time to sell it), then the KDX is the better choice. I still haven't decided but have to say I'm leaning toward the KTM -- before I buy I will have to ride both. My biggest disappointment is how Kawi has ignored the KDX and KLX for so long, especially the forks.

Then again, there are so many KDX's out there that I just may find a deal I can't pass up on a nice used late '90s one that's already got the pipe and modded suspenders! The photo of Mac's bike that was on the DRN home page proves these can be made to look pretty much like a KX, which is way cool, too.

 

[gooby]

check this out in the local papers there is 2 bikes 1 kdx 200 with most of the mods that are done .....it was sold 2,900 .the other 00 ktm 200 mxc renthal bars,dynaport pipe/silencer,wer susp. 3,800 obo he said the price was neg. i'm happy with my kdx esp for the money i have into it but i'de go see the pumpkin for sure if i needed a bike. i'm the type that would b the proud owner of either.

 

[gooby]

found ya a pumpkin Doug

 

[woods_rider1]

canyoncarvr
sorry to hear that your exposure to orange left such a bad taste in your mouth. all I can say is it obviously wasnt set up correctly, it couldnt have been. I wish you could ride mine and see how smoothly a 250 can run in the woods. I have had several "curious type" test ride it and tell me blankly "wow that is the best 2 stroke I think I have ever ridden" As I stated earlier, when I switched from green to orange, I was so absolutely impressed with every aspect of the stock KTM over the modified KDX it wasnt even funny. While I had my KDX, I loved every ride I did on it, (except for the fast whoops, then I had NO FUN at all) but riding them back to back was like test driving a porsche, then leaving the dealership in the family subaru... I never looked at my KDX the same way again after that. I sold it to someone I know for his sons first bike, and rode it a few months ago (helping his son through a tough section) and was amazed at how it felt, everything from ergos, to power to suspension, to the marshmallow for a seat. I quickly gave him his bike back and smiled as I started mine. As I said before, I will gladly let you ride mine for a day to see how it feels if you are ever in my neck of the woods.

 

[Duneman]

the only reason I dragged my bike against the KTM is because my brother owns one I raced him when he had it stock and modified.
As for the moneyI found a 93 KDX with a blown engine, but every thing else on the bike was in mint condition, somebody ran streight gas through it, anyway i paid $800, the procircuit engine was $980, pipe $250,subframe$160
seat$170,airbox$110, newplastic$130,clarke tank$165,forks, shock shifter brake pedal and kickstater from salvage yard $600, procircuit suspenshion mods $600. radvalve $125, ims pegs $70.........$4160...
.......the fun i had putting it together priceless.....
the olny reason i did it was at the time i could not decide what kind of bike to get, so i built one for me they way i would like a bike. as for the ktm 200, that bike is an awesome bike. i think it is a better dessert bike than the kdx but i like the dx everywhere else. the type of ridding i do is play riding, trails, motocross. i want to do another bike kind of like my kdx but only with a klx instead.:)

 

[DougRoost]

Duneman, sounds like you have a nice little KDX there and love the budget build up. I've done similar things with cars and it's a lot of fun and you get exactly what you want for a good price.

 

[ktm033]

sounds like what we have here is a clear case of pumpkin envy!;)

 

[DougRoost]

As I said earlier I wish Kawasaki wouldn't have ignored the KDX (and KLX) for so long. These are great bikes and if Kawi looked at the mods everyone recommends for them and made a few from the factory it could be so much better and just shut the red and blue bike guys up. Or better yet, offer the KDX 200 engine in the KX125 chassis. I'd buy one of those in a second.

Think about that for a minute. That's exactly what the KTM 200 E/XC is. They took their 125 chassis and put a nice 200 engine with flywheel weight, enduro rear wheel, etc. in it. It's even got the "MX-type" seat that allows you to move further foward on the bike.

Now go back to a new KDX on the showroom floor. Thinking about it with it's conventional forks, "ski jump" style seat, soft suspension, etc, this bike is more of a 2 stroke Honda XR250. That's not meant as a jab guys. It's a great all around bike that's easy to ride and with the right rider and some mods, can even be made to go fast through woods. Start putting KX suspension, subframes, plastic, etc. and maybe starting with a KX would have been better (which is what most of the Team Green GNCC guys do).

I'm not trying to bash any bikes here. I've gone down this road with my KLX and like Duneman got a good deal on it used. I've got about $3800 in it but haven't done the suspenders yet nor put aluminum bars and such on it. I've had to do the usual KLX things, like replace the defective factory idler gear with the one from Stroker (which Larry Roeseler told Kawi about 5 years ago and every year since), install Stroker's reground shift star, new exhaust, Mikuni pumper carb, hot start, new chain, etc. It really needs the suspension resprung and revalved, which is at least another $500. Even then I won't have rebound adjustment in the forks like the KX, KTM, etc. Nor is it as light as the newer racing 4 strokes. But it's a good, reliable bike, very confidence inspiring, comfortable to ride for a long time, and can do well in a hare scramble. And I have been able to do these upgrades as budget permitted rather than up-front.

However, had I bought a KTM 4 stroke, none of this would have been necessary. In addition, I would have gotten more power, electric starting, lighter weight, Magura taper handlebars, hydraulic clutch, better rims, stainless steel braided brake lines, powdercoated frame, etc. And resale would have been much better.

So I've been there/done that once and can certainly do it again. I'm just not sure it's worth it, unless again you get a good deal on a used one. Because when all is said and done you really don't get the money back from your mods. Why, oh why, does Kawi not offer the KDX engine in the 125 frame? It would take them so little to do and the aftermarket would be all over it.

 

[BRush]

Originally posted by ktm033
sounds like what we have here is a clear case of pumpkin envy!;)

Let's call this exhibit 1: "KTM Denial", e.g. the inability to grasp the concept that a KTM is not all thing to all people, or that because it is more expensive than the KDX, it must be better in all ways in all situations. Let's be polite and nod out heads. No point it getting them all worked up :)

Originally posted by DougRoost
Because when all is said and done you really don't get the money back from your mods

Does any one really think you "get money back" from dirtbikes? C'mon, let's be serious! :) Dirtbikes suck up disposable income like a shop vac on steroids. What you get back is tremendous fun, not money... which leads me to my second favorite bedtime story: That KTM riders take their bikes home and never spend another dime for mods. This is like bigfoot, a mythical creature that people talk about, but no one has ever seen. All the KTM riders I know buy steering dampers, have their suspensions revalved and resprung, change bars, buy EE clutch levers, bar inserts, seat foam, seat covers, add rotor shark fins, skid plates, pipe guards, graphics kits ... the list goes on. In short they do all the stuff we enthusiasts like to do irrespective of the bike (no doubt this statement will cause the one KTM rider in North America who has a bone-stock bike to post in protest ;) ).

Originally posted by DougRoost
Or better yet, offer the KDX 200 engine in the KX125 chassis. I'd buy one of those in a second.

Me too :) (ps. Jeff Fredette will build one for you if you've got enough spare change)

 

[ktm033]

why not just buy a KTM?????

 

[thermo]

to each his own. ride what you like. i like em skinny and i like the color orange. i really like caramel filled chocolates.
why you spodes always gotta argue:moon:

 

[gooby]

i think this thread has maintained it's composure nicely ,not too many jabs.u know it will just go on forever with no answer .everyone that has replied says they love their bike both kdx and ktm owners i guess that says something for both.not easy however for someone tryin to decide on what bike to get.if u guys are looking for a closing statement here goes if u like orange get orange if u like green get green whatever decides it will b diff for everyone. we all seem to b havin fun.ya can't beat or argue with that.
dennis

 

[Optik]

Why does the kx chasis make the kdx so much better?

 

[teton]

BRush, you forgot to add to your list that if you want the bike to turn like a Jap bike in the tight stuff, you need to add some offset Factory Connection triple claimps. You can add some serious bucks to any bike, not just the KDX, look at XR's, DR's and dont forget even the newer bikes. I had a 2001 YZ250F, a great bike, already has a big fat #1 plate in its first year, I started adding up the cost of the parts it was going to take to make it the way I wanted it, about $2000.00!!
KTM, GasGas, Husky TM, Yamaha and all the other bikes out there that are raced, and trail ridden will need to be modified somewhere, sometime, sure there are a few that can ride a bike stock and claim it is perfect, there are some out there that claim they dont have to pay taxes, some think that Bill ******* is a good guy.....exc,exc.........

 

[ktm033]

EXC or MXC!

 

[agitt73]

on my new ktm i need tires fmf silencer clutch guard
bark busters differant jet needle and jeting
skid plated shark fin plus new brake pads i only have 80 miles
on it and the rear pads are goners
the supension is awsome in stock form

 

[FlashBurn]

I have the same question as Optik.Why would the KX125 frame make the KDX better?Why not the 250 frame or are they the same?I don't see anything wrong with the KDX frame anyway.if your not happy with the suspension it can be made better very easy and cheaply.A pair of inverted forks are not going to make the bike a wet dream.Kawi obviously has a good selling bike so why change it.I have owned 2 KDX's and if mine were stolen I would buy another tomorrow.A new exhaust and a couple of jets and the bike is the best 2 stroke trail bike I have ever owned.I could have a KTM but the rear suspension is not exactly state of the art.It's probably the worst part of the bike next to that god awful seat and engine vibration and lets not forget the price and cost of parts.

 

[DougRoost]

Re: KX125 frame, this is what Jeff Fredette built for himself, as have a few others. It should be smaller, beefier in some critical places, lighter, and of course more modern. I'm 5'8", so I'd rather have the more compact 125 frame than the 250.

As for the KTM's rear suspension not being state of the art, you've got that backwards. Progressive spring and shock technology has gotten to the point where KTM could offer a linkless rear suspension that works well. Less moving parts, less maintenance, and lighter weight. I believe this is the direction things are going, though others (like Jeremy) would certainly know better.

As DC said, if you like green buy the KDX and if you like orange buy the KTM. It's great having choices and you're not going to go wrong either way. I just think it's too bad Yamaha got out of this market in '98 (when the WR's all became 4 strokes) since the competition probably would have prodded Kawi into updating the KDX a bit and given us yet another choice to debate!

 

[woods_rider1]

flashburn
sounds like someone is referencing too many dirtbike or MXA magazines instead of getting info firsthand. DougRoost got it correct with the suspension info.
As far as correcting bad suspension cheaply and easily... Having the suspension professionally tailored to your personal needs is probably the most expensive upgrade you will make to your bike. What other mod will cost you $400 - $700?