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Lap Times

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#1
seems at the last couple nats, that the "lites" class has produced the fastest lap times....

ya ya.... so maybe Bubba and RC haven't been going "full tilt"... regardless of that, you've got tons of talent riding the 450's (Shorty, DV12, Red Dog), and Villo and BT have been killing them on lap times...

doesn't this just go to show that all that extra power of the 450 just isn't needed?? you'ld think especially on the national tracks that the added horsepower would somewhat lower lap times (long up-hills, power robbing sand at some tracks ect).... but it just hasn't really been the case...

and if all that extra power isn't used outdoors..... than it certainly isn't needed indoors either...

perhaps all the classes should be even up.... 125cc 2 stroke vs 125cc 4 stroke..... and 250cc 2-stroke vs 250cc 4 stroke...
 

oldguy

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#2
They were also riding on freshly groomed track both motos. The track condition between what the lites class rode and the MX class was definitely in the lites favor to post a fast time.
It was hard to believe how deeply rutted the track became each time before the MX class came out
 
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#3
yes...... there are tons of things people could come up with... but, even with the rougher track, the 450's have been faster the last two years except for the last two weeks...

Villo and BT are simply riding hard.... taking their 250's to the max... and the lap times show how fast a 250 can really go (as fast or faster than the 450's)...

also... Hot Sauce, and Langston..... when both of them were in the "lites" class, they both hauled bootie, and ran really hard... i know it's really hard to compare their old lites lap times to their 450 times... but rarely were they not in the top 3 fastest lap times in the lites class (during their primes in the lites class)... now days, on 450's, they are typically several seconds slower than the fastest lites class entries...

could it be said that riders like Ivan, Langston, and even people like K-dub (aka K-fade) could put in faster lap times on 250 4 strokes, even today?? or..... do they just back it down a couple notches once they hit the big class (when they should be riding the hardest)??

to me it makes me appreciated people like John Dowd and Doug Henry..... they didn't slack it off when they made the big class.... they worked harder, tried harder, and got a even faster on the bigger bikes....

if a modern 250 4 stroke is putting 40hp to the ground, maybe that's really the limit with todays tire and suspension technology..... perhaps every hp above that is just wasted in wheelspin.... and if that is the case... the only thing all that extra power does is make the bike harder to ride, resulting in more crashing, resulting in more injuries...
 

oldguy

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#4
and then again the lites ran on freshly groomed track while the 450s ran on rough track.

No way could Townley and Villopoto have hung with or as you speculate beaten RC at Millville. I was there and saw how brutal the track was each time the 450s came out.
Besides one or 2 fast laps does not make a race win.
 
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#5
so just at the last two races has the track been much rougher for the big bores? have they started a new order of grooming? from the three nats i've hit this year, they always groomed before the tiddlers, and the 450's have always had faster lap times even on the rougher track...

it's really unheard of for the lites to have faster lap times, even on the smoother track.... you guys may not care, but to me, it's really a pretty big milestone in this sport....

so either Villo and BT are really upping their games, or the big bore guys are lowering theirs... either way, makes you wonder if 450's are truely needed other than to just have another class to race in...

i'm sure you guys remember back when the O' Show beat the 500 world champ on a tiddler at the mxdn... let's say 30'ish rear wheel hp vs 45 hp.... that was all about Johnny just pushing harder and taking much better lines... but obviously, the power he had on the 125 was more than enough to power him to great lap times...
 

oldguy

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#6
You must not remember all the hype when stewart on his measly little 125 was turning a better lap time then the big bikes many of them on 450s.
To me it just is not a big deal the 450 class is an entirely different animal regardless of laptimes.
 

Philip

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#7
It seems to me they run as fast as they need to not as fast as the 450 can go. You are saying the 450 is wasted power but thats not necessarily so. BT and Villo were pushing each other harder the last few weeks i.e. their lap times will be low. Most guys look for 10ths of a second on thier competetors, it seems like RC and Bubba seem to finds minutes worth of them when they are really pushing each other. Until they came along I don't think I have ever seen such a gap back to third place.
 
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#8
Philip said:
Most guys look for 10ths of a second on thier competetors, it seems like RC and Bubba seem to finds minutes worth of them when they are really pushing each other. Until they came along I don't think I have ever seen such a gap back to third place.
Ahhh.........the good old days :nod:
 

JMD

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#9
If nothing else, the 450s are much faster off the starting line, and that's critical.