Midwest Enduro Classes for '08

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YAMAHUNT

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Jul 6, 2006
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So whats the thinking on how to break up the Light and Heavy? 0-249cc and 250cc and up? Doesn't look as though that would change the A/B Lights but would possibly add 5-8 riders to the old A/B 250 (Heavy) class, with some of those maybe going to the other age classes.
 
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UP Magoo

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Apr 4, 2002
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I've been struggling trying to go faster/better on a 250 than I did on the 200. I'm pretty sure I am better on the 200.
DB says he's fastest on the 144 (and he's been riding a 250xcfw this year).
I agree, matching the right bike with the rider is very important in enduro.
Also FYI, I edited my thoughts on class breakdowns in my earlier post.
 

Smit-Dog

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UP Magoo said:
Also FYI, I edited my thoughts on class breakdowns in my earlier post.
Click to expand...
Just to be certain, when you're specifying displacement cc's in your class breakdown suggestion, are you referring to the cc's printed on the bike's side panels, or the "official" cc's? The KTM XCW-250 is technically 249cc's.
 
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UP Magoo

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Apr 4, 2002
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Good Point -- I'll update it to be "201cc and larger," like it is in the current AMA class division...



Or is a KTM 200 actually 201cc?? :think:
 
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TJC510

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Oct 22, 2006
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i think it would be hard to combine the classes and come up with something that will work well. all 5 districts have A/B 200, and A/B 250 with only district 16 combining the A/B 250 and A/B Open. why go with what the minority has, instead of the majority?

the two smaller classes out of these are the A 200 and B open. if you were to combine the 200 and 250 classes, obviously it would be both A and B. that would make the b250 an even bigger class that it already is. if you do the 250 and open classes, it would do the same to the A250. the next question would be will the riders be competitive in the combined classes?

i feel we have the riders to fill out the classes we already have. the SS A/B was a needed class for us as we have a lot of fast old guys. also the C class was just huge and split was alot better for both.
 
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Smit-Dog

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UP Magoo said:
Lites should be 0-200cc (both 2 & 4 stroke) and Open should be 201cc+ (both 2 and 4 stroke).
Click to expand...
The way the AMA has sliced, diced, and re-organized classes based on displacement / engine type is confusing enough. The above definition for Lites and Open isn't inline with how the AMA has separated its two main classes, so I hesitate to go with that breakdown, or at least call it something other than Lites.

What that breakdown is really doing is combining the existing 250 class into the Open class. The definition for the current 200 class remained unchanged (other than in name).

So... Does it come down to these options (if this is to be a change to consider):

#1
- Lites: 86-200 2stk / xx-250 4stk (whatever the realistic lower end of 4stk is)

- Heavy/Open: 201+ 2stk / 251+ 4stk

#2
- Lites: 86-250 2stk / 4stk

- Heavy/Open: 251+ 2stk / 4stk

#3
- Lites: 86-200 2stk / 4stk (for the 4stk in this class, what bike brand / models would this really include? Honda CRF150R?)

- Heavy/Open: 201+ 2stk / 4stk
 
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fatherandson

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I think any change in the displacement classes should be based only on displacement (NOT 2 stroke or 4 stroke). We do not need to use the MX classification as an example. We have already removed the four stroke class as we have determined that the four strokes can compete with the two strokes in enduros.
In addition to have competitive classes for the riders, we also need to keep in mind the clubs - we need to keep the sign up process as simple as possible. # 1 noted above would not be easy to administer.
 
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UP Magoo

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Apr 4, 2002
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Wasn't trying to refer to the MX classes; was referring to the current Enduro cc class breakdown.

Soooo.... I say Option #3 :cool:
 

Wolverine423

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fatherandson said:
I think any change in the displacement classes should be based only on displacement (NOT 2 stroke or 4 stroke).
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
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fatherandson

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Magoo - my comment was not directed at you, but I think Shagy made a reference to the MX Lites class. I think any more changes implemented by D14 have to be agreed up by the other districts - why create more differences? We have dual district events with D15 and 16 and need more consistency.
 
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FlyinRyan

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The problem with Option # 3 would that would basically be the current 200 class, which has a really low turnout currently.

I've liked Option # 2 for some time and Smit Dog will cringe when he reads it but that would fit when the two strokes are gone and only the 250 & 450 thumpers are left. I know, I know, KTM will make 2 strokes forever but the other manufactures are already stopping (Honda and Kawasaki) importing them.
 

Smit-Dog

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Take a look at the class counts of 200, 250, Open, and 4Str classes for national events and D-14 events.

Do you think it'd be feasible and have rider acceptance to combine 250 with the Open class?

At the local level we'd end up with approximately an average of 23 entries per race for a combined A-250-Open-4Str class, 25 entries on average for a combined B-250-Open-4Str class, still leaving us with only an average of 6-7 entries per race for the A/B 200 classes. As far as combining the less popular 200 classes, it may make better sense to combine it with the 250 class. I just hope it wouldn't reduce the sales and demand for the KTM 2-hundy, 'cause that's a fun little bike!

At the national level we'd end up with approximately an average of 32 entries per race for a combined A-250-Open-4Str class, 29 entries on average for a combined B-250-Open-4Str class, still leaving us with only an average of 6 entries per race for the A/B 200 classes.

After looking at all this, and taking into account what will likely be feasible, have rider acceptance, and work at both the national and local level, here's my proposal for '08:

1) Submit a proposal to the AMA to eliminate the A/B 4-stroke classes, and split out the Super Senior class into A and B classes. We did this in D-14 for '07; it appears to have worked out well, and other districts have expressed interest in doing the same thing.

2) Ask districts 15, 16, 17, and 22 to consider the following:

--> Split out the large single C class into C-Junior (<30) and C-Senior (30+).
--> Split out the Super Senior class into A and B.

3) Ask D15 and D17 to consider adding a Masters class for 60+.

4) Ask D16 and D22 to consider changing their Masters class age cutoff to 60+ instead of the current 58+.

5) Ask D15 to consider eliminating their A/B 4-stroke classes.

6) Ask D15, D17, and D22 to consider adding a Women's class. Considering the very small number of riders in this class it's not that big of a deal if they don't, but what does it hurt? The upside is that an advertised and available Women's class may entice a few more women riders to ride an enduro if they know other women riders will be doing it, and they can compete against them instead of the men.

7) D22 does not have the rider count / interest to justify Vet classes at this time. Hopefully this will change as we work to grow the sport. For now I'd leave it as-is.

8) 250 and Open classes are combined in D16. Same situation as D22 with the Vet classes... I'd leave this as-is for now.

9) D16 does not have an AA class for the reasons stated above. Should there be consistency, however, in each district as to how AA riders are determined? Top X or Top X%?

Thoughts?
 

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Smit-Dog

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FlyinRyan said:
The problem with Option # 3 would that would basically be the current 200 class, which has a really low turnout currently.

I've liked Option # 2 for some time...
Click to expand...
Yes, it's the 200 class (if anything) that needs to be considered when talking about combining classes. And of those options, I also think #2 is the cleanest and most practical.... Especially when 2-strokes dominate once again!
 
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Shagy100

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Sep 4, 2006
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At the local level we'd end up with approximately an average of 23 entries per race for a combined A-250-Open-4Str class, 25 entries on average for a combined B-250-Open-4Str class, still leaving us with only an average of 6-7 entries per race for the A/B 200 classes. As far as combining the less popular 200 classes, it may make better sense to combine it with the 250 class. I just hope it wouldn't reduce the sales and demand for the KTM 2-hundy, 'cause that's a fun little bike

Look I said earlier that i was faster on a 250. im not better cause of my ability but because youve got more bottom end where you need it and top end where as my 125 you better have her singin all day or you goin no where. Just to prove my point my dad is pretty fast on a 125 and i dont think i can touch him but you put me on my 250 and motor to motor im gonna beat him and i dont need theextra ability and at goshen the guys on 125s all ready get spanked on by 200s any when you throw a 250ts in the fact your gonna get hammered in the ground. And if displacement isnt a big issue how come ive only seen 2 guys on 200swin the over all at jackpine where thers usually no huge hills. Ive talked to one of them and he said hed never do it again because you dont have the horsepower you need. Heck i even over bored my 125 to the ama limit so i can hang with the 200s in my class in enduros and harescrambles. And if horespowers not a big deal how many of you guys are on anything smaller than a 250 like two of you so why dont all you guys that ride the big bikes come over borrow my 125 and tell me if you beat at 250 on it
 
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Fred T

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Boy, those guys that ride 125's are as high strung as their bikes.

Get a job, stop mooching off your parents and buy a 250, go faster- problem solved. :cool:
 

Smit-Dog

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Hey Squidward - All excellent points!

.... Now back to the Bikini Bottom with the rest of the trollers...

 

Wolverine423

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LMAO you’re parents must be really proud of you for being so smart. How do you get your helmet to fit over your head?...
 
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slowone

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Aug 4, 2006
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He's so smart he figured out how to protect his head with only air, doesn't even have to wear a helmet! I'm not fast, don't claim to be and probably never will be, but if changes are needed they are needed. I guess if the equipment needs to be changed to be competitive with the new class designations then do what Fred says. :p
 
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nzambon

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Apr 19, 2003
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Hey squidboy could you be snowboy by any chance? Are you a sandstormer? Any how I'am with you bro there all a bunch of flatlanders that just like to talk. Because what ever the class structre is nobody wants to drive more than 2 hrs to a event except for the die hards. Rockon!
 
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fatherandson

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It looks like a post got deleted as I can not find the squidboy post.
Smitdog, do you have a count of the number of 125s that race on Sunday? I know we have one. I used to race 125s, but when I got taller I moved to a bigger bike. I think the 125 will disappear before the two strokes will - you can blame the AMA MX rules for that demise - not us flatlanders.
 

Smit-Dog

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fatherandson said:
It looks like a post got deleted as I can not find the squidboy post.
Click to expand...
Looks like the Mods are taken care of bizness...
Smitdog, do you have a count of the number of 125s that race on Sunday?
Click to expand...
I don't... I'm just happy to get bike brand at sign-up. The field is there for bike model and displacement, just don't have the manpower / time to get that info entered into the system.

Maybe if Shagy gets on a 250 he can finish enduros earlier and help get the data entered... :nod:
 
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