Need info and pictures to build my ice tires

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#1
I have made a new set of ice tires for the last two winters, and would like to know if there are any self proclaimed experts who might give me some tips and a few pictures of their tires. I have a new Kenda ice tire for the back and another new tire for the front. I started putting screws in the front tire and with the configuration I am using, I figured I will have 600 screws in the front tire. Most lugs have 2 screws. I have heard that you should put the screws in at angles to maximize the bite, but have yet to find anyone that can give me good information.
 

motometal

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#2
how long are the screws?  Are you using a liner?  Have you had any trouble with screws pulling out?
 
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#3
I studded up some crappy old ones last year with 4-5 per lug in the center and 3 per on the outside ones. It worked ok but this year I g2 find something with a lot more lugs like dual-purpose tires. I tore out quite a few studs with just a 125 while the guy with the 426 was spitting 'em out like a machine gun.
 

CRPilot

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#4
Try the link below. You can see the general pattern for the screws. The rear tire is the Kenda Ice and the front is a dunlop 490. The pattern is based in the onces Fredette builds. The angle not only improves traction, but helps screw retention. Contrary to common thought, the screws head should point in the opposite direction of the wheel spin.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jmbeckman/lst?.dir=/Bikes+and+Riding&.view=t
 
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#5
I ended up with about 600 screws in the front and 1000 in the back. I used 5/8 in. Kold Kutters. The screws don't go through on either tire, so I don't need a liner. When I used an old front tire last year, the screws did go through, so I lined the inside with a 3 in wide strip of kitchen carpet. That worked pretty good. I may try taking some of the screw out again to see if the tire will spin up a little faster. It acts like a flywheel weight.

I think the guys I ride with are on the same learning curve, so we are having a lot of fun and noone has a real edge on the rest. It makes for some competitive racing.

We did have about 5 days of very cold nights and had about 5-6 inches of ice. The water was only about 3-4 feet deep, so we aren't too crazy. We got to ride for a Sunday afternoon before we wore a hole through the ice in a corner. We noticed it before anybody went for a swim.

Thanks for the responses.
 
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#6
G'day Frito: Here's a couple of tips from a canadian ex ice racer-me!! buy longer screws! get your hands on some old street tires(wornout free ones work the best) then cut the side wall and bead off of it and stuff the tread part inside your ice tire.Now you can go with a screw thats long enough to go through the knob then through the carcass and into the street tire liner. you will be amazed at the increase in traction and durability that you'll get with this
combo. on a good setup,you can corner better than a street bike-feet up on the pegs at 60 mph. also the street liner solves a lot of tire balance issues/and flat tire problems as well. Have Fun!!
 

motometal

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#7
yes, I agree with what he said.  Otherwise, the only other tire I got to work was a tire with long knobs like a 752, 756, 755 Dunlop etc. and put in as many screws as possible!  Remember that the force is spread out over whichever screws are biting, if you only have one on each knob you may end up with all of your horsepower basically on one screw!  It will pull out.  In theory, the tires mentioned above have long knobs which can bend over under extreme forces, but I didn't notice a problem with that...the fact that it's cold and the rubber is stiff doesn't hurt any.  Kold Kutters etc are nice but if you are on a budget, plain old sheet metal screws work too. 

Of course, experimenting with tire pressure is always a good thing.  Lower pressure allows a larger contact patch with more screws biting.

 

Have fun!
 

CRPilot

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#8
Moto, I would disagree with a few points you made.

A harder tire will work better IF it doesn't chunk. If the compound is to stiff the knobs will tear off in a matter of hours. The Kenda Ice tires have worked with the rubber compounds to get a tire that is stiff yet stays plyable in sub zero temps. 752's and 755 will chunk really fast.

A well built tire will use a lot of screws, but not "As many as you can fit". Too many and the tire will begin to act like a skate. The screw must be placed so the leading edge of the knob bites the ice and can keep clean. Similar to riding in the mud....If the knobs(screws) cant stay clean, you will just spin. That is where the design of the screw and the placement/angle come into play. Kold kutters have a large slot cut accross the center to help clean the ice chips.

Don't bother with sheet metal screws. It's a waste of time and money and you will never get even half the traction of the kold kutters. Yes you will spend $60-70 in screws, but they will last much longer with superior traction. With sheet metal screws you'll end up rebuilding more tires and spending more cash in the long run.

If you want to give it a try, go to a local ice race and shop around for a used set. Often, racers are selling a used set for half or less the cost of a new set. Plan on spending about $200 for a decent used set. Not that much more than building one yourself once you consider your time plus the cost of two tires, two tire liners, and screws.

I've "gone the built it cheap way" and learned that it's really not. The grin factor you get from riding a good set of tires is well worth it.

My .02
 

motometal

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#9
there's no argument from me that if you want to spend the cash, better equipment works better.   It all comes down to how serious you want to get.  In my case, it was "let's give this a try and see what happens", no racing, and I only rode a few times with each setup.  I will admit I have never had the ideal ice setup.  I've tried mx tires with 1-2 screws in each knob, and they pulled out (on a 250 two stroke).  Then I used "as many as I could fit" and got great traction with very few of them pulling out.  No chunking problems whatsoever with the tires mentioned.  Not saying you are wrong, just relaying my personal experience.   
 

WoodsRider

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#10
I bought a used set of tires from Fredette for $275. Going on their fourth season. I lost two screws out of the rear last year. Might buy a new rear this year.
 
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#11
Well I finally got a chance to take some pictures of my tires.
The front tire is here:
http://216.129.250.90/pics/icetirefront.jpg

The rear tire is here:
http://216.129.250.90/pics/icetirerear.jpg

I have about 600 screws in the front and 1000 in the rear tire.
 

70 marlin

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#12
Frito&lt; couldn't get the your pic page to work. I’ve been running Ice tires for a year now with Kold Kutters.&nbsp;I mostly run frozen ground, not water. The first tire was an S-12s front &amp; back. Both chunked very badly on a xr280. Next tire was a 773 rear, held up better with very little chunking. Front a weird kenda or some thing. It was used&nbsp;and had an Euro enduro DOT block pattern. I used the leading edge method with a slight angle. I ride frozen ground and swamp weeds. It held up better and hooked up fairy well. This year new bike Husaberg 470, old XR retired. I bought a cheng shing 858 Enduro pattern rear. It’s a hard tire that looks to be a lot rounder than my other attempts. And a Bridgestone endro front with a close block pattern. (Sorry a can't remember the model) But what I'm tiring to achieve is more screws to the ground with less space between the knobs. I really didn’t have trouble with fouling&nbsp;of the&nbsp;tires with mud or snow. As it was too cold &amp; dry in Michigan last year.
 
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#14
Anyone ever tired this with BOLTS instead of screws?

Was thinking a 1/4" bolt inserted from the inside with a nut on the outside and about 1/2" of bolt sticking out of the nut would be excellent. Could get those button head allen key bolts in SS, then run something inside the tire to protect the tube.

Anyone else tried it this way?

Thanks,
Phil
 
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#15
1tontj said:
Anyone ever tired this with BOLTS instead of screws?

Was thinking a 1/4" bolt inserted from the inside with a nut on the outside and about 1/2" of bolt sticking out of the nut would be excellent. Could get those button head allen key bolts in SS, then run something inside the tire to protect the tube.

Anyone else tried it this way?

Thanks,
Phil
Yeah i have. Works great on all off-road surfaces, even with quite deep snow. Downside is that its a heck lot of work to make. Im going to make a tire quite like it except using snowmobile carbide studs. Much more expensive but should last lot longer, longer than trelleborg tires. I havent had any problems with the wear, i have been using it for 3 years or so but only on ice hardpack snow. It will wear out if riding on bareground as i will do on the mx-track.

http://int.pixum.com/members/pyroma...=1536536&ktw=b146054477abd271e80ec6f1335ceda8