"Performance Chips, Anyone?"

[Rattletrap'83CR480]

I love my V10, but I hate the gas bills! On average, I am getting about 10 - 12.5 MPG and the fuel bills are through the roof (and this makes the wife very unhappy!). In an effort to increase gas mileage and squeeze a few more horses out of the powerplant, I am considering a performance chip as well as a free-flowing air induction system, headers and a tuned exhaust. My dilema is this: Even though many outfits offer chips for my application, I have yet to see a side by side comparison of them. Has anyone here installed a chip on a Triton V10, and if so, what are your impressions? I occasionally tow my boat or my camping trailer (non 5th wheel variety), so this must also be taken into consideration. A supercharger may also be an option, but it's a bit pricey for me at the present time.

I now leave it to you, my DRN Super Duty Bretheren, to enlighten me once again. :confused:

RatTrap

 

[Highbeam]

I can't answer your specific question, if that bothers you don't read on.

You will never increase the mpg of that truck enough to make the fuel bills go down significantly. Trucks are not designed to get good mpg. You are driving a 6000 lb brick with a huge engine made to pull huge things and that is why it has a huge fuel tank.

Consider the cost of a nice intake. K&N FIPK for 300$, might get you 0.5 mpg. 300$ gets you 200 gallons of gas.

Even the Banks kit that has all of the upgrades you suggested only gives like 8% increase in fuel mileage. Total. Including headers, air cleaner, free flowing exhaust, and anything else Banks thinks is necessary. 8% gives you a whopping 10.8 mpg on the low end for the thousands spent on upgrades.

If you wanted mpg, you should have bought a diesel truck, or even better is a diesel car like the VW TDI.

Trucks are gas hogs but I gladly pay to have the safety and power of a big rig. Plus when you're sitting higher you can look down on young ladies in their cars through the sunroof. :D

 

[jeb]

I agree with Highbeam. Every big block I've had has been a terrible gas hog and even if you could get 10% better mileage through some mod, the mileage would still be poor. That was my primary reason for going with the duramax diesel. Now I just have to keep it long enough to make it pay for the $5k option. Of course, resale will be higher too so that makes the payoff point sooner. I've owned it for a year now and, so far, I love the truck and the mileage.

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

I was comsidering a chip also, I have a 360 in my truck but I'm less concerened about the milage, I think it'll always suck. I have a 01 Dodge Quad Cab w/ a 360 in it and it's gutless. I towed my 16' trailer behind a Durango with the same motor and it pulled it much better than my truck. I had a Tahoe with a 350 and it did better too. I don't know what it is with my truck, it has the tow package but it's a dog when it comes to power.

 

[MrLuckey]

Originally posted by Jeff Gilbert
I don't know what it is with my truck, it has the tow package but it's a dodge when it comes to power.

:p

 

[Okiewan]

I have a 01 Dodge Quad Cab w/ a 360 in it and it's gutless.

What gear do you have? It's all about where in the RPM's the power is and where (RPM) you are running when towing. I've got the little 5.4 in the Super Duty, with 410's, yanks the 4,000 trailer around like it's not there.

 

[CanadianRidr]

This may or may not help you. But I have this superchip pictured below in my 00 f-150 5.4.

One thing people don't realize when buying a chip is you NEED to run premium fuel (91-92 octane). This gets costly. Superchips has a formula on their webpage where it tries to justify the cost savings over the long term. I have yet to see them :confused: The MPG is better but the gas bill is a tad more expensive. Apparently in the end it saves.......

So that's the unknown down side. I also put on the K&N F.I.P.K which gave HUGE performance results, I still only gained about 2mpg, and some days it differs.

I think you may just be looking for an excuse to mod :aj: But seriously, these two items I installed barely save on the MPG, and headers arn't reccomended on these newer E.F.I vehicles anymore.

 

[dirt bike dave]

On my truck, the Superchip really helped the automatic tranny shifting and gave a nice power increase, plus a slight (5%?) mileage increase. I have an FIPK which helped top end power. I noticed a significant mileage increase by going to an electric fan. BTW, my truck is the little 4.2 V6. If you want to get more info on performance chips, check out www.f150online.com They have a chip forum.

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

Originally posted by Okiewan

What gear do you have? It's all about where in the RPM's the power is and where (RPM) you are running when towing. I've got the little 5.4 in the Super Duty, with 410's, yanks the 4,000 trailer around like it's not there.

I have the towing package but I'm not sure what the gearing is but I'm thinking it's 3.55. When I tow my little trailer (5x8) I've gotten as bad as 8-10 mpg if there's a little bit of head wind. If no head wind and not up hill I can get 10mpg pulling my 16'. If I kick it down out of over drive and run 3000 rpm's it pulls better but the milage gets even worse.

 

[Patman]

Rattletrap the V10 Ford is not ever going to get respectable mileage. That's not what it was designed for. I had one and it was a strong runner but mileage was a little worse than yours. The best improvement I got in MPG's was switching the entire powertrain over to Amsoil synthetics. I'm sure other synthetic lubricants would show improvements as well but that's the only one I can personally comment on.

 

[Okiewan]

I think our Canadian friend might be mistaking the cool sound of the FPIK for "huge" increases in power, lol. It does help (have it on the Grand and had it on the F150), but "huge" isn't the word I'd use. The 250 has a much better intake than the 150, a little cutting here and there, a K&N drop in you end up with an FPIK. Pretty sure the V10 uses the same intake. $50 for the K&N and worth it.

The Superchip is on it's way back for reprogramming, (removed it from the 150) I can't wait! The right Chip is a great bang for the buck mod, probably the best. The "Chips" forum at f150online rocks, loys of good info.

Another advantage of the 250 is the exhaust, 3" stainless all the way back, I just cut the stock muffler out and stuck in a Flowmaster 40 Series Delta Flow.

All that being said (open the intake, free the exhaust add a chip) I also use Mobil 1 (increase mpg by 1 just doing that oil change), my mpg is up right at 2.5. Obviously, that's not huge, but do the math, at 1.5 per gal it adds-up over time, not to mention the mile between fill-ups... 25 gal tank goes 62 miles farther :)

Now the real reason I modded it? I like the seat of the pants gain for small $.
All in all, it's about a 30 HP increase and the chip cleans-up that CRAPPY factory shift program.

 

[CanadianRidr]

I think our Candian friend might be mistaking the cool sound of the FPIK for "huge" increases in power, lol

Ehhh........ummmm.......well it is a lot louder :) VROOM!!

But in my application it did help quite a bit mainly do to the fact that on my truck it had the semi-free flow exhaust with the SVT tuned muffler and 3.5 inch dual slash cut tips :aj:

With the stock box and all that extra plumbing it was really chokeing up the truck, as soon as the F.I.P.K it complemented the exhaust and really opened er up.

I know mods after mods make you not realize things as much, but even after the new larger throttle body and spacer got put on, I still don't think it was as worthy as the F.I.P.K

VROOM

I just cut the stock muffler out and stuck in a Flowmaster 40 Series Delta Flow.

And you have had this truck for what? A week now :aj: ROFLMAO, you are a giant kid :)

 

[Okiewan]

Crap! Found out that my ECU code is too new... they don't have the program from Ford yet, therefore, it could be a while before I get my chip back :( MAN I miss that thing.

 

[whyzee]

Do these chips work for the Z71, and do they really improve the shifting? I remember as a kid we would install shift kits in the trannys and replace the torque converters with high RMP stall units. Not interested in banging gears, but my Chevy runs like I am powering everyone’s AC compressor for the day, and the shift is slow soft.

 

[MrMXer327]

I installed the Banks Power Pack on my Ford V-10. The V-10 is installed in a 30' Motorhome and I did want a little better fuel mileage out of the beast, but more importantly.... I wanted to be able to roll down the highway pulling a 16' trailer loaded with bikes. This goal was accomplished and I did gain about 1 - 1.5mgp. (As long as I keep her below 75) I have not installed a chip yet, basically because I want to keep running the 87 octaine fuel. Overall, I am pretty happy with the package offered by Banks and their quality is top notch.

 

[CanadianRidr]

96whyzee, yes the chips are avaible for most vehicles. And yes they are similar to a shiftkit, but not exactly. They definately clean up the shift points and put them in better positions. The f-150 likes to break them loose inbetween shifts now, and with the foot stopped down it will shift hard :aj:

 

[Jaybird]

Is it not possible that by installing a hot chip, your engine may end up being hotter than the drive train was desinged to take?

 

[Okiewan]

Originally posted by Jaybird
Is it not possible that by installing a hot chip, your engine may end up being hotter than the drive train was desinged to take?

The most I've seen from a chip (gas engine vehicle) is 28 hp and 48 ft lbs. In the author's case, he has 4R100 tranny; safe up to 500HP stock. That's a number from a Ford tranny tech at Dearborn. That trans comes in SVT Lightnings and Super Dutys, but not regualar F150's.

 

[Okiewan]

Shifting? Yup, most chips increase line pressure... some a little others a lot. If you didn't know it, the car makers program "soft shifts" on purpose, a lot of folks don't want to know it is shifting. The program reduces hp/tq during the shift as well as causes a delay. This is actually harder on a transmission than quick, firm shifts. There are line pressure mod only kits that are hard on the pump in the long run, Transgo and the like full shift kits and if you're lucky, complete valvebodys that are completely customized for your vehicle/trans.

Below is info from Factory Tech, the guy that makes the valvebody I'm installing this weekend :p Gregg is a trans guru with the Lightning crowd, he builds a complete hardcore trans called the "monstor box" as well.

Good info about kits:

What most people are looking for in transmission strategy is a quicker, firmer shift, or more technically a shorter shift duration. Shift duration is how long it takes for a shift to occur, or the amount of time that the clutches are slipping. A shorter shift duration has a performance feel, and generally is better for the clutches, because the wear on the plates happens during this "slip". Shortening duration also will reduce heat, which is responsible for most automatic transmission failures. The way to reduce shift duration is to increase the engagement pressure of fluid to the clutch during the shift.

One way to raise Line Pressure is to use a mechanical shift kit, or more simply, a set of valves and springs in the accumulator valve body. Since the accumulator is hydraulically "downstream" of the EPC, a mechanical shift kit does not interrupt any lubrication failsafes and since it is using a mechanical pressure boost (through the Line Pressure Boost Valve) it does not place any additional load on the pump. I have seen 3 basic variations of mechanical shift kits, a "Line Pressure Mod Valve" ($89-$99), a "3 springs and a valve (about $150, basically a Line Mod Valve and 3 additional springs) and a full accumulator ($200, a Line mod valve, springs, lower control springs and lower control valves installed into a new or rebuilt accumulator valve body). I'm not going to be coy about it, I designed, build and indirectly sell the Factory Tech/PSP Accumulator Shift Kit, so instead of trying to act neutral (I'm not) I'll tell you why I think the kit I build is a better kit, a better value and better for your transmission.

First, an accumulator is a fairly straightforward assembly. In the 4R100, there are 3 shift bores, and 1 line pressure/throttle bore. The 3 shift bores are identical, and different springs are set in them to control the reaction of the accumulator piston to hydraulic pressure, this reaction translates into shift duration on the shift controlled by that bore. All of the bores are fed pressure by the Line Modulator Boost Valve, which reacts to the Throttle Valve, controlling this circuit boosts line pressure into all of the shift bores. If you change the Line Modulator Boost Valve and raise line pressure throughout the body, the individual shift bores are no longer "tuned" properly and the reaction in the shift bores will be out of calibration for the elevated line pressure. For this reason, you need to recalibrate the shift bores, both in the top circuit (above the accumulator piston) and below (the 321-310 circuit). Also, in the 2001 model Lightings, I have found that increased pressure in the lower circuits caused the 321 valves to "side load" or bind up due to asymmetric application of hydraulic pressure during the shift, resulting in a "bang shift". A Line Mod valve fails to address these conditions. My last (but not least) concern with a Line Mod valve is cost, I don't think you get much bang for the buck if you pay $89 for a Line Modulator Boost Valve. I've been very upfront about this, I use a part very similar to this as part of the Factory Tech/PSP Accumulator Shift Kit. In may ways, I think the part I use is higher quality, my valve and sleeve are made from stainless steel and most of the other ones I see have aluminum sleeves. This can cause problems in the long run too, as the steel valve cycles though an aluminum sleeve, the sleeve wears faster than the valve and after a time this results in pressure loss and sloppy shifts, the condition the part is designed to correct. Also, of all the parts I have personally seen, only the one I use has an O-Ring seal to prevent pressure leaking out of the circuit. For all this, my cost for the valve is about $20, if you just want a boost valve, email me, I'll sell you one for $30, shipping included, and in a year I'll still be here if you need a new transmission, my Monster Box goes for $1500.

The second popular option is the 3 springs and a valve shift kits. Using this type of kit recalibrates the upper circuits to the elevated line pressure, but still ignores the side loading of the lower control valves. The kit of this type that I have seen also uses an aluminum sleeve/steel valve, and again, the cost is high, for the extra $50 give or take, you get 3 springs and more detailed instructions.

For the Factory Tech Accumulator Shift Kit, I start with a new Accumulator Valve body, Genuine Ford Part (F81Z-7G422-AA, List Price at your dealer is $150 +/-), I add a Line Modulator Boost Valve (about $20), recalibrate the upper circuit with different springs ($12) and upgrade the lower circuit springs and use a valve designed to cycle more freely in the bore to prevent both side loading and binding. (I won't tell you the price, a guy has to have a few secrets). Well, to tell the truth, I don't pay list on the other parts either, but between the kits and my custom transmission work I buy a lot of parts and I get some good discounts (buy 50 accumulators at a time and you can get the same discount, prolly). My point is, I've heard from quite few people who bought the other kits and asked themselves (and me) "Is this it?, I paid $XXXX for this?" I honestly hope that no-one ever got one of my kits and asked that question. The fact is, the final retail price of the Factory Tech/PSP Shift Kit is less than the list price of the components that go into it, and my distributor makes a profit, too.
And finally, I have my reputation. Read the "mods" on bulletin boards to see who my customers are, do a search for Factory Tech, and after you see who they are, E-Mail them and ask how they like the kit. As of this writing, I've sold or given away (for the first year I made them for people I work and didn't even charge them above what I paid for parts) about 500 accumulators and exactly one customer has let me know he wasn't satisfied, and in the end I even satisfied him. (he had installation issues, after the part was in right, he loved it). When the '01 Lightings first came out, the side loading issues on the lower circuit became evident, and I replaced 2 units after I redesigned the accumulator. Other than these cases, I know of NO customers who have had complaints about my parts. Just consider this, if you buy XXX parts, and have a problem, what's the chance of you getting the home number of the guy who designed it? If you bought it used off of E-Bay? If you have one of my parts and you have a problem, I'll fix it. That means if it needs to be replaced, you get a new one, no matter where you got it, it means that if you have a question about installation or performance that you can't get a good answer to, you can get in touch with me and if I need to talk to you to make it clear, I'll send you my home number, or call you. There is no-one selling parts for Lightnings that has built more 4R100s than me, I know this box and I stand behind what I build, because I want to sell you that Monster Box when you want it, when you're ready for it, not when you grenade the tranny and need it.
Thanks,

Gregg Evans

 

[Okiewan]

Installed the Factory Tech Valve body this morning :) Yee Haww! The things shifts great! Light on the throttle, just a nice firm, but completely livable shift. Step on it a little... Sweet! WFO...? :) Worth every cent.

 

[zio]

Okay, come on now- you guys who state you notice an increase in mileage from 17 to 18 in city driving (just an example, not quoting anyone)- how can you accurately measure that? Your right foot & daily route is that consistent? Your tire pressure never varies? Your airfilter is always clean? I think there are too many variables to determine an increase/decrease in such a small increment. :confused:

I fluctuate every week, between about 18 to 22 city. It varies quite a bit. Nevermind the fact that my driving is usually mixed between city & freeway, and never an equal split between the two from week to week.

 

[Okiewan]

Granted, the increase is read from the onboard computer... but over a period of 3500 miles, with the wife driving to and from work (primarily). I'm sure there can be a variation in tire pressure, etc., but...

 

[MrLuckey]

Originally posted by zio
I fluctuate every week

You WHAT?? Hey keep it clean in here buddy :p

PS Try changing your diet!

 

[zio]

Originally posted by TTRGuy


You WHAT?? Hey keep it clean in here buddy :p

PS Try changing your diet!

Sorry man, but my doctor has me on a strick diet. Beans & broccoli chased with milk is what he recommends.

BTW, you wanna bunk up at DW? Me and Elk have room in our tent! :p

 

[MrLuckey]

Hmmm - bunk with Speedy ;) or Elk :uh: & Zio :moon:

You just aint right in the head son :p