RC has 25 points taken away

[A-RustyDemon]

:pissed: UUNNRREEAALL... Thanks AMA for being such a great organization. I wonder who checks the checkers cause even medical labs makes mistakes. Could also be job security thing... (Well if we don't find SOMETHING we'll be out of a job.... just put down 0.00000000000991%.. ) Heck they could have a lead glass beaker in the mix. I agree THEY should supply the gas and this would be a none issue. :think: Fill it put a AMA Seal on it... you know they could use the little lead and wire deals thur the cap and neck.

Would be cool and very sportsmen of JS and CR to back peddle a race... and a thumb in the eye to the AMA for this monkey wrench they have flung into the best season in a long time. Doubt it will happen... as we all know a win is a win and a title has cash value in the long run. Has the Carmichael / Suzuki camp said anything about this? :|

 

[oldguy]

I agree that RC will try even harder (hopefully just not crash that much harder) because he now really has something to run down now. If he could overcome this 25 point penalty and his non finish at St Louis that will only put him more deeply entrenched as the GOAT. What ever happens the racing for this last half of the season is going to be the best we will ever see in my lifetime.

As far as tarnished crown I agree it would be for another rider- just look at 2004 outdoors Troy washes out 2 time so Langston becomes the champ with Hughes poised to posibly take the title if given the chance to race a true 12 race season. who knows what would have happened in that last race but I know I sure would have liked to see it

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

I noticed on the SXGP.com site, that the fuel penalty has been announced, but the 25 points has not been deducted yet. Anyone know when the final ruling comes down?

 

[oldguy]

My feeling is also that JS and Reed should not sit out a race. as said if this gets overturned they loose big. This is not golf it is a hard fought battle that must take in the ups and downs as they are thrown in- either of them could DNF because of a bike malfunction or crash.

 

[oldguy]

I noticed on the SXGP.com site, that the fuel penalty has been announced, but the 25 points has not been deducted yet. Anyone know when the final ruling comes down?

They are very slow about updating that site so I wouldn't expect to see anything for at least a couple weeks

 

[dirt bike dave]

: Has the Carmichael / Suzuki camp said anything about this? :|

Below is cut and pasted from Cycle News....Suzuki's response is pretty simlar to what Yamaha said when Chad was penalized in '04.

From Cycle News Website:
American Suzuki has issued a press release in response to the penalty that the AMA Pro Racing has asssessed to Team Makita's Ricky Carmichael after fuel taken from Carmichael's motorcycle after the San Diego round of the Amp'd Mobile Supercross Series was found to be not in compliance with AMA rules. The release is as follows:

BREA, Calif. (Feb. 24, 2006) – Team Makita Suzuki Racing announced today that the team will appeal the penalty imposed by the AMA for the use of illegal fuel at round six of the Amp’d Mobile AMA Supercross Series in San Diego, Calif., on Feb. 11, 2006.

The entire Team Makita Suzuki Racing organization, including Ricky Carmichael and his crew, have followed closely all the rules established for AMA Supercross and Motocross racing. The team has purchased the same fuel throughout the last several seasons; it has been tested and was never found in violation of fuel rules before. The fuel used by the Supercross team at the San Diego round was supplied by a third-party vendor and was not tested by Team Makita Suzuki technicians before the race.

Carmichael and Team Makita Suzuki Racing will compete at round eight in Atlanta with the same determination that earned World and AMA Championships in 2005, and has kept Carmichael near the top of the standings in 2006

 

[dirt bike dave]

OK, it's dbd again.

It appears that the season is being determined by outside fuel suppliers and lab technicians.

We have 3 of the best SX racers of all time. I want the title to be settled on the track.

My GUESS is the fuel supplier or someone at Suzuki had sloppy storage practices and contaminated the fuel to a minute level.

If that turns out to be the case, should RC be penalized 25 points? I say NO. But the AMA will say YES.

 

[A-RustyDemon]

Thanks.. dirt bike dave

The entire Team Makita Suzuki Racing organization, including Ricky Carmichael and his crew, have followed closely all the rules established for AMA Supercross and Motocross racing. The team has purchased the same fuel throughout the last several seasons; it has been tested and was never found in violation of fuel rules before. The fuel used by the Supercross team at the San Diego round was supplied by a third-party vendor and was not tested by Team Makita Suzuki technicians before the race.

:yikes: Remember when Bush and EPA suspended the fuel separation requirements... the left coast could run a dirtier fuel do to the shortage. Wonder if that could have something to do with it. Cause if you know they're checking the podium gas every race and he's been on the box every time but STL. Just don't add up as a "Let's Do It" move. Hey could be... bet VP gets a hot load of fuel contaminated from the tanker carrying other fuels that they would normally have never had in it do to the EPA relaxing it's stand during the disaster. Bet they did not wash the tankers out after the rules went back into effect. :think: Has it went back into effect?

Another thing to think about.

 

[steve125]

Three times in a row testing has found nothing worth doing and there is zero evidence of intentional tampering. This testing is not doing what it was planned to do. Its creating more problems than it solves.

 

[JST122]

Best season ever completely ruined over something so stupid. That just took all of the excitement and anticipation out of the rest of the season. The AMA is supposedly trying so hard to increase popularity and excitement in the series and then something like this happens. They better have been darn sure that some cheating was involved to go and pull this crap. I would hope that they tested the samples like 800 times before making this final conclusion because this just decided the championship. Things were so exciting RC, CR and Stewart all had a chance at it. Now the Championship has been relgated to a CR-Stewart battle which is all but uneventful because Stewart has Reed's speed covered without a problem. With 9 rounds left Stewart can and probably will catch Reed and win the championship because all he has to do is finish higher than CR at the last 9 rounds and he will have enough points to do it (granted with as much as he crashes this is harder said than done but he clearly is faster). The only excitement we have left is to see if Stewart can catch up to Reed and steel the points lead because RC and JS are going to get back on track and continue leaving Reed third fastest from here on out.

 

[Philip]

I don't see Reed being anything but a bridesmaid in Bubba and Ricky's world. Even with the points advantage he can't run the speed of these guys. Unless bubba hands it to him he will not win the title. He is just like Kevin (my favorite rider btw), the only titles he will win is by default. He is a good rider just not the best in my opinion.All things being equal I think ricky and bubba are in a league of there own with chad, ivan, and kevin battling for the last step. Man this really sucks bc only going to the Houston SX the season is normally already decided. This was going to be the first year we would get to see a real race, now maybe not. :|

 

[Reesknight]

This is total BS. However the racing for the rest of the season will, hopefully, still be good. I think its all dependant upon the attitutes of the top 3. RC needs to believe that either the penalty will be overturned or that he will make up the difference. Of course if he doesn't make the top spot at any of the races then its over for him unless he keeps believing it will be overturned. It would be great for JS and CR to sit one out but as has been pointed out, that's not likely for several reasons. Maybe the fans could show their appreciation to the AMA by not attending races or cancelling their AMA memberships. :bang:

 

[bclapham]

the rule needs to be changed to be more realistic, or the AMA needs to take over the entire fuel operation as NASCAR does.

given the high cost of the fuel that i bet the factories are running, i thouhgt that such a rule might help the privateer......but i wonder how many privateers are using Ultimate 4???? LOL.

what amazes me is all the arguing on the internet about racing, 99% of people all agree the AMA are a joke!!!!

it really would be nice if the racers, fans and manufacturers made some big statements.

 

[bclapham]

from RC

A letter from RC.

I wish that I could write one of these things when I have good news. My schedule is so crazy when things are going good that I don't get a chance to touch base. It's amazing what can happen in a day. The last twelve hours has been crazy. I was completely blown away when I received a call from the AMA this morning stating that my fuel from the San Diego Supercross was not in compliance. I initially thought that it was a joke because EVERYONE is aware that the fuel gets tested and you would be crazy to push those limits.

We learned at the Motocross-Des-Nations that the bikes can be made to run really well with unleaded fuel. In fact the tests that were run on my fuel showed that we had the least amount of oxygen of anyone tested. I was also told that even though the fuel that was tested didn't have any performance enhancing characteristics it was still illegal. I was also told that I would not be given a chance to appeal the decision but I am not accepting that. Everyone deserves a chance to defend themselves.

The most important thing that I want everyone to know is that we do not depend on illegal fuel to be competitive. I have always worked very hard to make sure that I am in the best physical shape possible and the team works just as hard to make sure that the bike is totally competitive and completely legal.

I stand in full support of my team and will be supporting their efforts in finding out why this situation has come up. We are making a formal appeal to the AMA and will also be testing the samples that we still have from the San Diego event to verify the findings.

My hopes for a 5th Supercross Championship have definitely dwindled a little but I can tell you that I will do everything in my power to get back in the title chase. Stranger things have happened!

Thanks to all of my fans for the continued support.

RC

 

[DRK]

That just took all of the excitement and anticipation out of the rest of the season.

Exactly how I feel. That is all.

 

[Vic]

Maybe the fans could show their appreciation to the AMA by not attending races or cancelling their AMA memberships. :bang:

I haven't been a member for years. I also haven't raced for years. If you want to race, you really don't have choice.

 

[Reesknight]

I haven't been a member for years. I also haven't raced for years. If you want to race, you really don't have choice.

Yeah I know, same here. But there are plenty of local tracks that don't require AMA membership. That probably a bit drastic but something needs to be done to let the AMA know how the fans feel about there bogus fuel regulations.

 

[oldfrt613]

RC and team Suzuki should just pull out of this years supercross in protest. Anyone could have "planted" the lead. Everyone knows the fuel is tested, there is no way team Suzuki would risk the championship for any edge RC would gain from leaded fuel ( like he needs an edge ). Franky, I was shocked Bubba wasn't penalized last year for making the outdoor season a contact sport. After what happened last weekend, this was shaping up to be the best series ever - now thanks to some stupid political crap RC will have to get some help from BS to win the series.

In conclusion - THIS SUCKS !!!!!

 

[leann5842]

He does not need the advantage??

 

[steve125]

Yep its lead again. :|

Roger exactly what the results were and whether or not they were similar the previous two penalty samples from Yamaha and Kawasaki. “Our one sample showed up at 0.017 [grams per liter], and another test was 0.018, and the AMA limit is .005. But with pump gas that you buy on the street, it’s .02, so this could happen to anybody who buys gas from a pump or commercial fuel, and you could be disqualified also.”

So the AMA would disqualify someone for running pump?......LOL.....what a joke!

 

[oldguy]

DeCoster speaks out about fuel Bold is my addition

Taken from racerxill.com

February 25, 2006


Notes from DeCoster's mid-day Press Conference
DC

Team Makita Suzuki’s Roger DeCoster held a press conference early this afternoon concerning AMA Pro Racing’s decision to penalize Ricky Carmichael 25 points after testing his fuel from San Diego and finding it to be over the lead content limit. DeCoster held the impromptu press conference outside the Suzuki rig.



“I want you guys to know that we are not a cheater team,” began DeCoster. “If we would try to cheat we would do it in some area where it would make a difference and benefit us. We got docked for being 1.2% of a gram over the lead allowance. And I want to tell you if we were to try to do something, we would run oxygen content a lot closer to the limit than we did. We were at 1.79%, and we can go up to 2.8%.

“Another thing you should is that Ricky has no control over what happens. He never puts gas in his bike. We do that. Evidently, somebody screwed up or somebody cheated, but it’s not Ricky, because he has no control over that. I would like to ask [the media] not to both Ricky with too many questions before the race. Let him focus on his racing. That’s what he wants to do and he wants to prove once more—the champion that is he—and he will do everything that he can to come back and put up a fight to try to come back in this championship. And if they [AMA] keeps testing the way they are testing, chances are that some of the other racers will have the same problem.

“The same problem happened with Stewart last season in the outdoors but he was in a situation where the championship was not a factor. Two years ago it happened to Reed and Vuillemin [in supercross] and the AMA was asked to revise their rule and look into things so that this could not happen anymore and they have not done so yet. Hopefully they will do something soon about it because there is no reason why this will not happen again.

“At this point we do not think it is the supplier’s fault [the supplier being VP]. We’re not sure but we are investigating to see what could have gone wrong. We use a heat shield between the engine and the fuel tank where, I have called Japan last night to see if there is any possibility that there could be some lead content in there that somehow could have touched when they took the sample out, because we use aluminum containers for our fuel and there is no chance of lead being there, and we have containers that have never been used for leaded fuel. The amount is so minute that if you have leaded fuel in a container and empty it out, down to the last drip, and then put unleaded fuel in, it could possibly show a trace of lead afterwards. We have used new containers, and we are very careful that the same person manipulates it.

“The other thing is that back at San Diego there was a fuel dump and it was no guarded very well—it’s usually never guarded very well. It’s somebody who was doing security and parking lot stuff at the same time.”

When asked if the team tests its fuel itself, DeCoster answered, “Yes, we test it ourselves. It’s ironic that I had asked the AMA for the sample of the vials to send some to the lab the same weekend, and we got tested that weekend. I had not sent in my stuff because I was going to do that the following week or so.”

TFS then asked Roger exactly what the results were and whether or not they were similar the previous two penalty samples from Yamaha and Kawasaki. “Our one sample showed up at 0.017 [grams per liter], and another test was 0.018, and the AMA limit is .005. But with pump gas that you buy on the street, it’s .02, so this could happen to anybody who buys gas from a pump or commercial fuel, and you could be disqualified also.”

Speed Channel’s Ralph Sheheen asked DeCoster what he didn’t like about the AMA’s testing procedure, and he answered, “Well first of all, I think the rule is overly strict. It’s very difficult to… If somewhere in the line there is a part that would a leaded seal or something, theoretically it could get into the fuel and you could be disqualified. If you used a funnel that you had used leaded fuel through last week or so, it could disqualify you. You almost have to go in spacesuits and in a clean room to do the test to avoid any possible mistakes.

“I am trying to appeal it. I gave them the form this morning and they returned it to me later. I posted the $500 required for the appeal but it was returned to me an hour later. They said they did not want to accept it. So we basically cannot defend ourselves.” :bang:

DeCoster took more questions from there. The fuel they have used all season long came from the same batch; Ivan Tedesco was not tested as they only did the podium and then chose random riders; he thinks that the penalty is so steep because of the precedent they set with Yamaha and Kawasaki previously.

“I don’t think the AMA tried to intentionally make us look bad,” he said in conclusion. “But the bad thing is that I found out about this yesterday morning while I was already sitting on airplane ready to come here, and when I got off the plane I met with Steve, and while I was talking to him the press release was coming out, so we never had a chance to tell our side of the story. I wanted to investigate it together with the AMA, what could have happened.”

And finally, what benefit would they have in cheating like this? “On two-strokes lead really helps for detonation, but with four-strokes, at the compression ratio that we run in this sport—in motocross—it would not make any difference, not that minute difference. One hundred of one gram would not give you any performance….

“Ricky has chosen not to even run our fastest setting because all of the factories, whether it’s Honda or Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, KTM, they all can make 450s faster than they need to be for supercross—especially on supercross. Even as strong as Ricky is, nobody can use a 450 to its maximum engine potential.”

 

[dirt bike dave]

Stupid freaking AMA. The clean, unleaded 87 octane EPA approved fuel my wife puts in her minivan can have 4 times as much lead in it as the AMA standard for racing SX. :bang:

Ridiculous.

Kudos to DeCoster for spelling it out.

No intentional cheating. No performance advantage even if it was intentional. But that does not stop the AMA from throwing their greatest champion under the bus.

And to top it off, they will not even give Roger freaking DeCoster, aka THE MAN, the courtesy of an appeal. If Roger wants to talk what is best for SX and MX, you better listen, even if you are the all knowing AMA. He's earned an audience for crying out loud.

 

[Vic]

Stupid freaking AMA. The clean, unleaded 87 octane EPA approved fuel my wife puts in her minivan can have 4 times as much lead in it as the AMA standard for racing SX. :bang:

Ridiculous.

Kudos to DeCoster for spelling it out.

No intentional cheating. No performance advantage even if it was intentional. But that does not stop the AMA from throwing their greatest champion under the bus.

And to top it off, they will not even give Roger freaking DeCoster, aka THE MAN, the courtesy of an appeal. If Roger wants to talk what is best for SX and MX, you better listen, even if you are the all knowing AMA. He's earned an audience for crying out loud.

AMA idiocy once again confirmed.

Maybe by next week, JBS and CR will be docked 25 points, too.

:coocoo:

 

[dirt bike dave]

This really fries my cheese.

The AMA does not do squat to preserve or obtain riding areas, and they mess up the only sports I truly enjoy spectating. I've got about 20 years of membership, but they can kiss my renewal goodbye.

My AMA dues for next year are getting sent as a donation to a worthy group or individual.

It won't repair the damage those idiots have done to this year's SX season, but it will make me feel better.

 

[kmccune]

:bang: :bang: :bang:

So the FIM has officially ruined the AMA with their unleaded gas Bull$#!*.... What ever happened to the AMA being our voice? Seems like $$$$ are getting in the way. Maybe it is necessary to promote the sport and get it on TV, but it does seem wrong to have rules that you can even accurately judge is someone has broken one.