RC vs Pichon, come on lets fire this one up again!

[SirThumper]

Look... I like Reed's style but look at the crashes behind him, that is what allowed him to put 15 sec on the rest right off.

Look at it this way, RC hasn't acutally raced anyone for a while now. He's been riding around 80% of his potential and smoking people, I think he has a little extra in the tank. Coming from last to second place is awesome. Not sure if Reed could have done the same.

I think they are both great racers but I'm not to quick to write RC off just yet. Oh how quickly we forget about Pichon :p

 

[jboomer]

Yeah, Reed rode his own race. But, he did have the fastest lap in the race and like SXGP said, 3 of his last 4 laps were faster than Ricky and Ricky was still charging. He's just so smooth. Even when Ricky was charging back, it didn't look like he was trying. He makes it look so easy! That just shows his dominance. It's amazing that at the level these guys are racing, that someone can come along (Stewart and RC) and DESTROY the competition!

 

[jboomer]

RC after Anaheim 1:

It was amazing at the end of the race how many people I was passing other than the guys that fell. It seemed like I was putting a lot of time on them and I thought they would be a little better than they were.

My point exactly!

 

[Camstyn]

So let me see if I have this straight:

Reed is too good for the 125 class. Stewart is not as good as Reed, which is why he beat Reed last year.

Stewart crashed "so much" last year because he is perfectly matched to his 125. Nobody has seen him race a 250, but we all know it is because he's not good enough to ride one.

Nobody offered Stewart a 250 ride last year either, I suppose if he would have whined about it like Reed did, he would be considered a 'better 250 rider' also.

Reed was only capable of capturing 3rd place last year in the 125 class, because he so much better than the other riders in the class (even the ones who beat him). Reed cannot win in the inferior class, but is assumed to win in the top dog class against the REAL world's best riders.

Sorry, this just doesn't fly with me. Twisted reality and a lot of assumptions made, along with excuses for Reed not winning last year outdoors. Reed is a good rider, but not the best. RC will spank him this year, as will a few others.

 

[Camstyn]

Oh, and Pichon who? He has no hope, the only thing he will accomplish coming over to this side of the pond is taking a hit to his confidence by getting his ass handed to him by half a dozen factory and non-factory guys any day of the week.

 

[jboomer]

#1 -- Did I say something about the outdoors? Man, I must have missed a few keystrokes or something, because I swear it sounds like I'm talking about SX.

#2 Stewart IS better than Reed on a 125. Reed would be better than Stewart on a 250, because I think Stewart would try to do too much on the 250 (he already tries to do too much on the 125!) and hurt himself. I thought I made that pretty clear! --- You have to remember, the 125 and 250 are two DIFFERENT bikes! You ride the 125 at its limit! You have to nurse the 250 a little more.

#3 Stewart crashed so much last year because he stretched that limit! He did things on the 125 that most thought were impossible on that bike! Listen to the Bailey on any of the races Stewart rode! He is in total shock because he saw Stewart do things on that bike that shouldn't have been possible!

Reed did win in the "inferior" class last year! IN SX! But, he was riding a bike with less to offer. If he has ALWAYS ridden a 250, like he says, then wouldn't it be a stretch to assume that he could do just as well on a smaller bike? Two DIFFERENT techniques!

RC probably will spank Reed! I hope he does! But, I doubt anyone else will, unless Travis stays healthy!

Slow down man! You aren't reading the posts! The only assumptions I've made were that Stewart isn't ready for a 250 and personal predictions for the future of this season!

 

[Camstyn]

1) nope, but that's the only series that the two competed against each other, unless you count the Las Vegas SX. Looks like Stewart spanked Reed there, too, so I guess it doesn't really matter if you were referring to indoors or outdoors.

2) I would have waited to make such claims until we have seen them go against each other on 250s. Assuming how Stewart would do on a 250 is a bit silly, wouldn't you think? I haven't seen him ride one. Perhaps the 250 suits him better, too, which is why Stewart crashes so much on the 125. Nobody knows for sure, so claiming that Reed is a better 250 rider doesn't make much sense to me. Remember how McGrath got started in the 250 class? Nobody expected him to do that well in his first year on a 250, either.

3) Stewart is an excellent motorcycle rider. Who's to say that he isn't just as spectacular on a 250 as he is on a 125? That's my whole point, you're assuming that he can't ride a 250.

Reed won the 125 west SX title, but in the one meeting with Stewart, got beaten. He also got beaten almost every other time he raced against Stewart. In my own opinion I don't think a 125 East or West championship counts for much. I think there is only one '125 champion' each year, and last year Reed wasn't it. Again, your mileage may vary.

As for if Reed can do as well on a smaller bike, it should be even easier for him than riding the 2-stroke. Look at the spanking that Carmichael laid down a couple years ago at Steel City in the 125 class, after he had clinched the 250 class. Generally speaking, 125 class bikes are easier to ride than 250 class bikes, aside from some beginners and woods riders.

I really wonder how different of a technique the 250F takes to ride, coming off of a YZ250. Anyone with real experience care to comment?

The only assumptions I've made were that Stewart isn't ready for a 250 and personal predictions for the future of this season!

That's what I thought and addressed, dude.
Just having a civil debate on this side, don't take anything personally. I know it's hard to convey emotions through the keyboard. :thumb:

 

[georgieboy]

When i looked at RC going over the woops and looked at CR going over the woops , i gues RC gonna crash a lot this season.

 

[jboomer]

I'm not arguing that Stewart can't beat Reed (especially on a 125)! Although I think the Vegas SX is a poor place to base that decision on! Like I said, I bet when Stewart is the wiser and moves to the 250 (barring he doesn't do it prematurely), he'll be the one to beat RC's records!. I doubt it will be Reed!

I don't think Reed is near as good outdoors as his is indoors. He's got the finesse required to get the job done indoors, but probably not what it takes to do it outdoors.

Reed, it seems, is more comfortable on a 250. He expressed it several times last year, and looks much better on it this year (although his performance last year on the 250 wasn't near as spectacular -- all top 5 finishes though right?). Stewart rides a 125, probably doesn't have near the experience on the 250 that Reed has, and you may be right, the 250 may be his niche. But, if he's doing the obstacles on a 125 that by all rights should only by attempted by a 250, can you imagine the chances he'd take on a 250? Yes, maybe he could make it work, but I doubt it! His crashes on the 125 are because he's pushing the limits on it! Yes, the 250 would allow him more power to accomplish the things he's doing, but, do you think he would stop there? No way! He's a fierce competitor and a showboat! He'd do something totally outrageous (just like Pastrana) and break his back! I think he and Pastrana are a lot alike in that respect! The 125 held Pastrana back! He was better than the bike. He got on a 250 and it's all been down hill! We know he's faster! He knows he's faster! But, the bikes and the tracks aren't as forgiving!

Carmichael had more experience on the 125 than Reed and has raced these tracks several times! He knows what it takes on each track and with each different bike (his 250 verse the 125 he used to race) to win! It was Reeds rookie season in the states, riding a bike he wasn't entirely comfortable on or confident in!

I agree that there should only be one 125 winner. But, I don't think it should be decided at Vegas! Why can't the 125's race the same cities as the 250's?

As for the comment about MC -- there are always exceptions! We all know how spectacular MC's career was! Are you saying Reed was as good last year as MC was his first year on the 250? The competition changes, the tracks change, the bikes change, and that was what? 10 years or so ago?

No hard feelings! All in good fun! It's called Saturday afternoon quarterbacking! Or is pitboard mechanicing? :confused:



Yes, I agree. Carmichael really hangs it out there in the whoops! He always seems to just barely make it doesn't he?

 

[marcusgunby]

Lets look at it this way-Stewart is something special-we all adgee, now reed was in his rookie year on a new bike and new tracks and new home-doing true sx for the 1st time in his life-he spanks the indoors(admittedly not against bubba but he beat alot of other riders who have been at it along time)his outdoor rider were sometimes very good but overall he only got 3rd-3RD in his 1st season on tracks he hasnt rode before-how many others have done so well???So overall his 1st season he was 5th in the 250s till he moved to 125s which he won the sx series and 3rd on the mx series.He gets 2nd at the US open on the 125 (correct me if im wrong) and 1st in the opening 250 sx of 03 against some very motivated and experienced 250sx riders(could be one of the deepest fields ever?)

As for the 250f verses 250 2 stroke, some riders Ie Mike Brown are just plain better in one class than another-reed i beleive is the same-he can go fast on a 250f but he isnt happy on it and rides a 250 2 stroke better.

 

[bclapham]

Originally posted by SirThumper
it's funny how they always go overseas and then start thinking they are so much faster than they were.

i think a similar thing would happen if RC went overseas.....maybe after trailing in the wake of WORLD CHAMPIONS such as Everts, Smets, Pichon and others he might find he wasnt as fast as he thought he was?

Of course, its never gonna happen, but i wouldnt blame him since more than half of american fans dont like RC anyway, but its funny when the same group of people are fickle enough to change tune when RC come up against a french dude (that won 2 SX championships by the way) that they all of a sudden craw out of the woodwork and love him!

 

[steve125]

Well the pigeon decided he likes his feathers and will now stay in France and won't be coming over to show us how fast he is! Imagine that! as i'm sooooooo suprised!!! Bananna man says lets pluck em anyway! :yeehaw:

 

[bclapham]

He obviously realises he has nothing to prove and doesnt want to embarass everyone over here!

now stick that one in your bannana and smoke it stevo! :thumb: :flame:

 

[steve125]

Bruce thats a hard sell you got on pigeon these days!!! But I for one ain't buying! :yeehaw: the pigeon ain't coming cuz he's really a chicken :yeehaw: If your selling chicken then i'm buying!!!! :)

 

[bclapham]

steve, i am just a fan still living in the dissapointment of not seeing all these guys go bar to bar last summer:( s'pose ive got to get over it!

 

[Okiewan]

Pichon... better to be a big fish in a little pond... :p

 

[ScottYZ250]

I'd much rather see the two race outdoors than Supercross, but beggars can't be... ;)

 

[PAMXC200]

Originally posted by marcusgunby
3RD in his 1st season on tracks he hasnt rode before-how many others have done so well???

Um, Ricky Carmichael won the 125 title in his first year racing outdoors.

James Stewart, ditto.

Grant Langston came within a broken wheel of winning the title in his first year here.

 

[PAMXC200]

Travis Pastrana too.

 

[Okiewan]

If I'm not mistaken, Bubba won more races than the others in his first season. Frankly, take away bike failures, he may have gone undefeated. He's beaten all of RC's records to date...

I also recall at Vegas last year, Stewart was off RC's pace by only a second or so. Maybe only one more year on the tiddler? He's learned a lot really fast.

 

[dirt bike dave]

Marcus,
Reed was Australian SX champion in '00, so he was not doing SX for the 'first time in his life' in '01.

Reed was a great rider before he came to the US and now that he's racing against the best, he is certain to get even better! I still like RC to win it all again this year, but Reed is going to keep Ricky very busy until Bubba moves up to the 250's.

 

[Patman]

Marcus we share the same opinion. Skippy is the real deal. Provided he doesn't get injured I think he's in RC's head enough already to really make it happen. Last year RC ran away and hid, now this year he can't get a main start? He crashes more and stays down a bit longer? I'd think if that was 80% there's going to be some seriously upset folks at Honda where 111% is still not enough. This is for sure going to be a very interesting year provided everybody stays healthy and the passes reasonably clean.

 

[patpipes]

Honda upset about what? Pure speculation has never won a title and having the points lead after 2 races certainly never has. RC is just a tad off his game but when on he never had a problem with Yogi, while Reed cannot hold him off with holeshots! Very soon there will be some healthy portions of crow passed around. Reed will never get into RC's head, but I saw Reed fold under the taunting last year! RC is the defending and still champ until dethroned! Anyone looking for clean passes better stay outta Riverfront Park and Mammoth Bar!

 

[Okiewan]

I just want Pastrana to stay up for a whole race. He can run with both of them, would make for a good show.

 

[marcusgunby]

I admit i didnt know he was a Australian Sx champion-however i cannot imagine the sx series is very competitive compared to the US.
When i was talking of his 1st year results i meant to compare them to non US riders-ir people coming from a similar background-ie GPs, i was trying to show Reed has skills many GP world champions dont have ie tortelli, Albe etc.

Pastrana makes bad decisions-he is looking to beat RC in races that matter none at all.He shoudl think more-he has plenty of speed to do damage to all the other riders confidance-they dont need to beat him-he beats himself.