Rear Brake
- Thread starter KDX Racer
- Start date
It's extremely rare to have to use the rear brake in the air when jumping normally (only for certain kinds of jumps that have a shallow lip and require full throttle at takeoff to clear). I suggest you hone your takeoff skills.
I have practised rear braking in the air for those panic moments when it goes wrong, and take my foot off the peg(just a tiny bit) and push on the brake. Better practise this doing wheelies or just both wheels on the ground first.
I have practised rear braking in the air for those panic moments when it goes wrong, and take my foot off the peg(just a tiny bit) and push on the brake. Better practise this doing wheelies or just both wheels on the ground first.
Its not that hard
start small and try it on jumps that do not need it (till you get use to it)
Just hit a jump/pull the clutch and try to tap the rear brake then repete, just like tieing your shoe at one time you had to think about what you were doing then it got to the point where you can look across the room and do it.
If you are one of those that cannot chew gum and walk at the same time, you will have a problem with this.
start small and try it on jumps that do not need it (till you get use to it)
Just hit a jump/pull the clutch and try to tap the rear brake then repete, just like tieing your shoe at one time you had to think about what you were doing then it got to the point where you can look across the room and do it.
If you are one of those that cannot chew gum and walk at the same time, you will have a problem with this.
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
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When I do tap the brake (rarely...it is much better to put the bike into the air properly than to have to correct it once airborn), I take my foot off the peg and make an exaggerated movement of moving my foot forward and stomping on the brake pedal.
If you actually rode with your foot hovering over the pedal, you'd be fairly likely to hit it by accident when bouncing around.
If you actually rode with your foot hovering over the pedal, you'd be fairly likely to hit it by accident when bouncing around.
Sounds like some of you could use a bit of adjustment on your setup! If you have to make an awkward movement taking your foot all the way off the peg to hit the brake, how is this any different when coming into a turn, etc.? You should be able to just pivot your ankle and tap the brake. Is the pedal adjusted too far down? Maybe your boots are stiffer than usual.
I think being able to use the rear brake in the air is mandatory for a rider to more "to the next level" of being able to jump safely. I have seen numerous riders at our local track try the 60+ foot tabletop, only to "fall off the back of the bike" by the time they land. Correct, proper take off technique will solve this problem most of the time, but to safely do medium and larger jumps, having the ability to use the rear brake is mandatory.
It's actually harder to practice this on smaller jumps, because there isn't much time to pull in the clutch, hit the brake, release the clutch, and land. This creates a sort of a catch-22 as far as learning the skill.
I think being able to use the rear brake in the air is mandatory for a rider to more "to the next level" of being able to jump safely. I have seen numerous riders at our local track try the 60+ foot tabletop, only to "fall off the back of the bike" by the time they land. Correct, proper take off technique will solve this problem most of the time, but to safely do medium and larger jumps, having the ability to use the rear brake is mandatory.
It's actually harder to practice this on smaller jumps, because there isn't much time to pull in the clutch, hit the brake, release the clutch, and land. This creates a sort of a catch-22 as far as learning the skill.
I agree with Motometal. When I tried to learn the brake technique, my pedal was adjusted too far down so I had to move it up a little. The best jumps to learn this techinque are table tops, IMO, because you don't risk going nose first into a double!!! The table top I used to get better was about 45-50 feet and it gave you just enough time to think first and then hit the brake.
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
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I don't "have to make an awkward movement", I said an "exaggerated movement". I do this for two reasons:
1. It seems to drop the front better by actually stomping on the brake rather than merely tapping it.
2. With me feet on the pegs, pivoting my ankle and pressing the rear brake does not give me a definite feel of when I have locked up the rear wheel (in the air) the way that stomping on it does. I would probably be more likely to push the bike away from me because I didn't feel when the brake pedal stopped moving and the bike started moving away from me.
Remember, this is just an old C rider's approach. This might be one of the many reasons I haven't gotten "to the next level". :(
1. It seems to drop the front better by actually stomping on the brake rather than merely tapping it.
2. With me feet on the pegs, pivoting my ankle and pressing the rear brake does not give me a definite feel of when I have locked up the rear wheel (in the air) the way that stomping on it does. I would probably be more likely to push the bike away from me because I didn't feel when the brake pedal stopped moving and the bike started moving away from me.
Remember, this is just an old C rider's approach. This might be one of the many reasons I haven't gotten "to the next level". :(
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didn't mean to put down your technique, just trying to help :cool:
If you have the ability to pull in the clutch, lock the rear wheel, let the clutch out and gas it at the last split second before you land, you are way ahead of many other "C" riders!
If you have the ability to pull in the clutch, lock the rear wheel, let the clutch out and gas it at the last split second before you land, you are way ahead of many other "C" riders!
I've been watched the A's jumping over here for the last few weeks because I really need to work on my jumping and I noticed the following...
They almost always press the brake pedal in the air. Could this be to make up for the fact that they invariably hit jumps at top speed, flat out.
Most of them lift their foot off the peg and stab the pedal in an exaggerated way like Gomer said. I agree this is probably to make sure the brake actually locks up and doesn't just drag...
I have been trying to practice this recently and found it is difficult to remember to pull in the clutch, press the pedal, let out clutch, rev etc etc. when I would usually be quite rigid in the air. I started by just pulling in the clutch and letting it out in the air to practice, then move on to using the pedal...
As was siad already I'm sure prevention in better then cure, but for those times when things go wrong it is worth practicing...
They almost always press the brake pedal in the air. Could this be to make up for the fact that they invariably hit jumps at top speed, flat out.
Most of them lift their foot off the peg and stab the pedal in an exaggerated way like Gomer said. I agree this is probably to make sure the brake actually locks up and doesn't just drag...
I have been trying to practice this recently and found it is difficult to remember to pull in the clutch, press the pedal, let out clutch, rev etc etc. when I would usually be quite rigid in the air. I started by just pulling in the clutch and letting it out in the air to practice, then move on to using the pedal...
As was siad already I'm sure prevention in better then cure, but for those times when things go wrong it is worth practicing...
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
- 11,788
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Wow! A reply after 7 months! Motometal, you *really* are slow! :scream:
(For those of you that didn't get to see him ride, it's a joke)
BTW, what is all that stuff in your sig? The only thing I recognized was the beer. :confused:
(For those of you that didn't get to see him ride, it's a joke)
BTW, what is all that stuff in your sig? The only thing I recognized was the beer. :confused:
I ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs, when I have to hit the brake to bring the front end down, I have to move my foot. Instead, when in the air I keep both feet floating above the pegs. This gives me quick access to the brake pedal and the shifter. So in midair I can downshift if there is a corner after the jump, and/or bring the front end down
I actually use my front brake. Its way easier than pulling in the clutch and doing all of that stuff. It works just as well. Just make sure you arent crossed up... if the front wheel is sideways (like you are turning the bars) it will skew your front end out a little.
I avoid using the brake by going wfo into a jump, letting off while I'm on the face, then blipping the gas right before liftoff. Sometimes the front end comes down in the air, like you are nosediving, but a blip pf the throttle fixes that in no time
I avoid using the brake by going wfo into a jump, letting off while I'm on the face, then blipping the gas right before liftoff. Sometimes the front end comes down in the air, like you are nosediving, but a blip pf the throttle fixes that in no time
motometal is head banging for his redneck neighbors :)
I find that not only does a lil brake tap get me positioned nicely on most sx type landings but it helps me get a bit more distance. Comming up just a tad short can be saved by tapping, the rear may get over the hump instead of hard into it. (shrug) course...I have done the 'tap the front wheel into it trick' before! At that point I just pretend I'm doing a rodeo performance and hope I score high.
I find that not only does a lil brake tap get me positioned nicely on most sx type landings but it helps me get a bit more distance. Comming up just a tad short can be saved by tapping, the rear may get over the hump instead of hard into it. (shrug) course...I have done the 'tap the front wheel into it trick' before! At that point I just pretend I'm doing a rodeo performance and hope I score high.
One of my worst ones was a mistakenly grabbed front. (ouch)
good luck, dell!
good luck, dell!
Using the front brake is not a good idea. Sorry dell30rb...
Gomer's point about setting up properly so you don't need the brake stab is the best way. Watch the best riders (not necessarily the fastest, but the smoothest). MC for example has said he rarely uses a brake stab.
Constant throttle maybe a gear high and proper body position is what to work on. That's not to say you won't get out of shape sometime and need the rear brake or a desperate panic rev.
If you are working on jumping technique, it's doubtful you're getting enough air to be messing with the clutch and brake anyway. Work on body position (attack position) and steady throttle... the blips, chopping and generally messing with throttle on jump faces isn't the way to go... concentrate on rolling the throttle off as you leave the jump and that's it.
Disclaimer: "KNOWING HOW" and "being able to", are not necessarily interchangeable :confused:
Gomer's point about setting up properly so you don't need the brake stab is the best way. Watch the best riders (not necessarily the fastest, but the smoothest). MC for example has said he rarely uses a brake stab.
Constant throttle maybe a gear high and proper body position is what to work on. That's not to say you won't get out of shape sometime and need the rear brake or a desperate panic rev.
If you are working on jumping technique, it's doubtful you're getting enough air to be messing with the clutch and brake anyway. Work on body position (attack position) and steady throttle... the blips, chopping and generally messing with throttle on jump faces isn't the way to go... concentrate on rolling the throttle off as you leave the jump and that's it.
Disclaimer: "KNOWING HOW" and "being able to", are not necessarily interchangeable :confused:
If you are going to attempt to tap the rear brake, I would reccomend setting the scenario up, on the approach[at least a first], anticipate and get your finger out on the clutch and foot positioned to easily tap the brake, if you want to get really basic , just start practice pulling in the clutch in the air and apply a bit of gas ........that is it , once you get that down incoporate the rear brake.
"Using the front brake is not a good idea. Sorry dell30rb... "
Why not? Have you tried it??
Its the same thing as stabbing the rear brake. Same physics dealie too.
The bike rotates around the front wheel bringing the back up... when using rear brake the front end is brought down... this may feel different but it accomplishes the same thing.
I first learned about doing it from an article I read somewhere on the internet... some guy's riding website... I linked too it from here where someone posted in a thread... I wish I could Find it!!
Why not? Have you tried it??
Its the same thing as stabbing the rear brake. Same physics dealie too.
The bike rotates around the front wheel bringing the back up... when using rear brake the front end is brought down... this may feel different but it accomplishes the same thing.
I first learned about doing it from an article I read somewhere on the internet... some guy's riding website... I linked too it from here where someone posted in a thread... I wish I could Find it!!
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
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Using the front brake in the air is a bad idea for at least 2 reasons:
- Unlike the rear wheel, you cannot restart the front wheel spinning to counteract the effect if you drop the front end too far. On longer jumps with more air time you will see advanced riders actually seesaw the bike back and forth by alternately stopping and restarting the rear wheel. The trick is to get it's attitude right for landing and on longer jumps it is possible to drop the front end too far using the rear brake.
- The gyroscopic behavior of a spinning front wheel can be used to help orient the bike in the air by turning the handlebars. If you stop the front wheel, you lose that ability.
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Those who can't, teach. ;)
I have a hard enough time finding brake while I'm on the ground much less when I'm in a death grip on the bars and spiraling down towards the earth :eek: As a result I resort to setting the bike up berofe the jump by going around it ;)
"Unlike the rear wheel, you cannot restart the front wheel spinning to counteract the effect if you drop the front end too far. "
Just speed up the rear wheel... 'nuff said
"The gyroscopic behavior of a spinning front wheel can be used to help orient the bike in the air by turning the handlebars. If you stop the front wheel, you lose that ability. "
Dosent matter if you took off straight... also, who says you have to stop the front wheel?
You guys can bash this all you want... point is, I've tried it and It works! I use it all of the time and it does just fine.
Just speed up the rear wheel... 'nuff said
"The gyroscopic behavior of a spinning front wheel can be used to help orient the bike in the air by turning the handlebars. If you stop the front wheel, you lose that ability. "
Dosent matter if you took off straight... also, who says you have to stop the front wheel?
You guys can bash this all you want... point is, I've tried it and It works! I use it all of the time and it does just fine.
- Thread starter
- #24
Thanks for all the help. I now have worked this out. 90 percent of the time I do not need the brake, Thanks Shane. On some of the bigger jumps with a down slope landing I like to tap the brake and land on the front wheel, seems to work best. Again thanks everyone.
Johnny
Johnny
truespode
Moderator / Wheelie King
- Jun 30, 1999
- 7,984
- 251
Not that isn't "Nuff said" You are advocating a dangerous practice. Most people who are practicing jumping are going to do this and end up in a bad, very bad situation.
If is a big liability. Plus, you are saying to use the front brake. That will stop the front wheel more often then not. In the air it is going to slow the gyro effect to being ineffective and you can't re-start it.
They aren't bashing you. Well, maybe. But they are bashing the crappy advice.
What you are advocating will get someone hurt bad. Once you use the front brake there is no coming back, even if you panic rev you are not going to off-set the gyro effect in the same manner as if you were braking and reving the rear wheel only.
You can keep trying it. That is fine. Please dont' advocate something that will cause someone else to get hurt by trying your advice.
Ivan
