Reminder- Riverside Ohv Hearing Tommorrow

[TemeculaTim]

Hope everyone had a good Independence Day holiday. If you live in or near Riverside County don't let special interest and the planning commission take away your independence to ride. The meeting is tomorrow, July 6th, 2005 at the Riverside County Planning Commission
4080 Lemon Street, 1st Floor Board Chambers. This item is slated to be last on the list so it will be discussed sometime in the afternoon. remember, what happens tomorrow could shape the future in this state and possibly the country for our sport.

 

[Ol'89r]

remember, what happens tomorrow could shape the future in this state and possibly the country for our sport.

Thanks for the reminder Tim. :cool:

 

[JPIVEY]

I will be there, going to bail out of here around 1:30, I told the office it was a hearing on dust and noise control, 2 of the many things I have to over see here in the field..............works for me :laugh:

 

[JWW]

Guys I am so sorry I didnt make it. I had some major problems at work and just got home. :(

 

[CspineRider]

CRF_Tom made it....Hey Tom, give us the scoop!

 

[JPIVEY]

I left there more angered at us ( the off-roader ) than I did the folks that support this ordinance; Once you decipher their almost incoherent ramblings, it boiled down to us being noisy, irresponsible and environmentally destructive.

I think what angered me most is, this is not true of the vast majority of the dirt bike community, but yet we are being stereotype much the same way we were stereotyped in the 60's, as being the trouble makers based on the ignorance of a few.

Most of us go out of our way to met or beat the required sound limits, we go out of our way to avoid environmentally sensitive areas and we go way out of our way to ride in areas not around homes, but yet, we are all being lumped into the ignorant few

I'm angered at the fact that we have resources such as PRO level riders, that should be out helping promote responsible riding and compliance existing ordinances, instead they are out angering entire communities,I think the industry should step back and look at the direction we are headed.

We have groups within the off road community, one these groups consist of new riders, riders of all ages, riders that need to be educated on the impact of our actions and the need to be pro active to keep this way of life alive and the biggest influence on these new riders, young riders, would be the people they look up too and try to emulate on the track or even in Cross county; I think the industry needs to step up with some positive, in your face public relations program and it should come from the ones that are in the public eye.

And thank god Dart and Hubbard were there, if it had been just the moto mommies trying to show case their little track hamsters, we would have been screwed, their platform was self serving at best

 

[JPIVEY]

Oh and it's to be continued, this ordinance is going to go threw, the only discussion now is the time that we will be allowed to ride.

So the next time you see some jerk off blasting down the street, be sure to stop and thank him before you kick'em in the head

 

[Ol'89r]

Oh and it's to be continued, this ordinance is going to go threw, the only discussion now is the time that we will be allowed to ride.

So the next time you see some jerk off blasting down the street, be sure to stop and thank him before you kick'em in the head

Couldn't agree with you more Jim. :(

Sorry I didn't get back in time either. Had to go to Sunland and didn't get back to the area until after 6:00. J.P and CRFTom, thanks for taking up the slack.

I had a great speech prepared too. All about the necessity of enforcing the laws that we already have before enacting new ones. We already have noise laws, dust laws and trespassing laws. The problem is enforcement of the laws we already have.

A few weeks ago my new neighbor and his friends started taking their mufflers off and terrorizing the neighborhood. Riding up on peoples land and hillsides. I went over and talked to them and tried to explain to them that by doing this they were only hurting themselves and the rest of us that ride. Well, now they are riding up on my hillsides and harassing me. :|

I tried to talk to them and tell them that I would take them up into the trails and show them where to ride. Since I have been riding these trails for over 40 years and cut some of them myself, I thought they might want to see where to ride.

Well, they are way too cool for me. So, I guess they will have to figure out where to ride by themselves. Now when my neighbors call me and ask me to do something about the riders, I tell them, call the sheriff. I tell them that I have talked to these guys several times and they really don't care. Maybe the sheriff will get their attention. It's too bad it has come to this. :think:

We are our own worst enemys. If some of us don't grow up and start being responsible, there will be nowhere left to ride.

Those that couldn't make the meeting, there's still more time to send a letter.

On the plus side of this, there was a sound test done on McGraths property recently and it showed the Planning Commissioners that some of the claims of excessive noise are untrue. At least they are working with us on this.

 

[TemeculaTim]

I left there more angered at us ( the off-roader ) than I did the folks that support this ordinance; Once you decipher their almost incoherent ramblings, it boiled down to us being noisy, irresponsible and environmentally destructive.

IAnd thank god Dart and Hubbard were there, if it had been just the moto mommies trying to show case their little track hamsters, we would have been screwed, their platform was self serving at best

JPIvey, I heard your name called as one of those in attendance who objected, but why didn't you speak? Please keep in mind that it is not easy for some people to get up in front of a crowd and speak. I was there and I did speak out about my objection to limits on when I can ride and how we were being stereotyped. I also thought that the pro side trying to lay a whole line of BS on us with their comments about how animals feel and think were no more coherent than we were. Yes, their are some real jerk-off riders out their that need to be handled. As for the moto mommies, I am glad that there was some form of representation for these young riders that showed that their parents were responsible and cared about what their kids were doing. If you remember, some of these moto mommies agreed that there are problems and were willing to work with their neighbors to address the issues as long as their was good communication. Remember track hamsters do grow up and can become responsible riders. I apprecciated everyone who had the nads to get up and address this issue what ever their opinion was.

As for my opinion, I was glad to see that this is getting an extension and that the planning commission is requesting additional research on the sound related issues. If any good came out of this meeting it is now very obvious that this ordinance will be hard to enforce and that the main issues are sound and code enforement related. Yes this issue isn't dead , but it was not allowed to progress further as drafted and with a 5-0 vote against this ordinance we came away with a victory, a small one ,but a win is a win.

 

[CRF_Tom]

I was there in attendance at the meeting. I sat in the back and listened to the drivel of the environmentalist and other annoyed residents of the county. Had I known what kind of forum this would be. I would have actually prepared to speak on behalf of the riders. As said before this is about noise and dust. Nothing more. If they wanted to talk about "fugitive dust. Then have them do a study on dust that horses make and the wonderful aroma the horsesh*t can produce. I understand that there are folks out there that want their peace and quite, but this ordinence isn't going to help them in that pursuit. Tim, Jpivey and the others that were there. I would've liked to have met you. At least that way I know who I concur with.
I couldn't believe my ears when the man from OC stood there and told the commisssion that all off-road riding should be outlawed. That blew me away. I wasn't really impressed with Mr. Porras either. Although I do applaude him for the Nay vote against the ordinence. This is just one more reason for me and my family not to buy land or try and invest in this city, county or state. There was also that poor attempt to mitigate the ordinence by having a new riding area built. Sorry but that just isn't going to do. They will either have the build more than that or enlarge the area for riding.
There is more to come of this. Hopefully I can make that meeting and have something prepared.
Tim, Jpivey, go ahead and PM me to talk about this.

 

[TemeculaTim]

I wasn't really impressed with Mr. Porras either.

I too was suprised that he voted the way he did. He sure came across as a horses a**. Just as a side little info. I got to speak with the Planning Commission Director Bob Johnson before the meeting and he indicated what the final outcome that night was going to be and why. He also wanted to tell Jack McGrath, Jeremy's dad, how impressed he was with the sound level presentation that was put on by the riders side and he was disappointed that the planners did not come up with the idea first. I thought that was funny because we all knew why they did not, it proves that it can work!!! Yes, I also would like to meet some of the posters on this site. Maybe organize a ride out at my place. Lots of single track between my house and Anza to ride ( at least for the moment).

 

[JPIVEY]

Hey Tim, I wasn't sure just how long I could stay and I actually wanted to just take note of what was going on and why, I ended up leaving right after Bill Dart spoke.

Also, Dave Hubbard is our paid legal voice and I would hate to say something that would not be 100% in line with him.

Tom, if you sat in the back, you may have been sitting close to were I was, I was wearing my Black KTM shirt and my Ol' yeller Hat.

We should meet up before the next hearing, I would really like to toss this around, to me this ord. has the same ramifications as Bill 1086 does, plus some

 

[CRF_Tom]

I believe that I might be of some support in this matter. I don't own land in Riverside or any other county. But I do understand the problems this will have for the future. This ordinance is going to make people that want to buy land for a specific purpose think twice about buying in Riv. Co. I had thought about buying land for this exact purpose for my kids. Now I am going to see if this is going to make it thru the process.

I didn't see anyone wearing a KTM shirt. I was wearing a yellow shirt. I sat behind the first lady that spoke.

The one other thing that was kind of wierd was that Riv. Co. doesn't have a noise ord on the books. Or so it seems. I did like the way Mr. Moreland from the AMA talked about sound as opposed to noise. Made a good point. I will defintiely be prepared for the next hearing.

 

[TemeculaTim]

CRF Tom, your observation about Morelands use of the word "Sound" instead of noise was a keen observation (must be cause you ride a Honda!). Before the meeting I was discussing the "noise" issues with Moreland and he quickly corrected me and told me to train myself into using that word instead to make a more positive impression about a negative issue. Typical Politician, but if it helps one little bit, I'll say whatever it takes.

 

[Ol'89r]

We should meet up before the next hearing, I would really like to toss this around, to me this ord. has the same ramifications as Bill 1086 does, plus some

That is a great idea Jim. If we get together and plan our speechs, they can be much more effective. When people get up and say the same things as the speaker before them, the commissioners get upset. If we each pick a point of interest to talk about, we come across as being much more organized and professional.

When we attended the first meeting on this, the ordinance was pretty much a done deal. The commissioners had only heard from the other side and had already made up their minds. As far as they were concerned, off roading in Riverside county should be illegal. If we had not shown up for that meeting, off roading would already be outlawed in Riv. Co.

Since that first meeting, we have opened their eyes as to just how big off roading is in Riv. Co. They now know that if they chase us away they will lose a considerable amount of taxable income from all of the aftermarket businesses and support industries for the off road community. Not to mention the huge amount of registered ohv's. Over 48,000 in the county.

We have also shown them that we are willing to bend and work with them to insure the future of off roading. The other side has not been willing to bend at all. Just like the guy that said off roading should be outlawed. Just like the enviowacko's that say no matter what you do, "it's never enough". At one of the first meetings there was an older fella that showed a video of some kid on an unmuffled quad going back and forth in front of his house. He had the sound turned way up. He kept replaying the same video over and over until one of the commissioners finally said, "Ok, that's enough, we get the idea".

All they do is complain, they give no solutions to the problem and are unwilling to work with us. By being this way they are losing credibility with the commissioners. On the other hand, our side is working with the commissioners and they are working with us. If you write a letter to the commissioners, be sure to thank them for this. They have taken a lot of their time to study this and come out for the sound tests and to see first hand what is actually going on. I applaud them for this.

To me this is more about private property rights than off roading. In light of the recent Supreme Court ruling on property rights I am very worried about where this is going. If we all don't step up and fight this, we won't have any rights left. Moving to another county or state won't do any good because many counties and states are carefully watching what happens with this ordinance so they can use it as a guide for their own area. We need to stop it here.

When they start regulating the noise from the groups of unmuffled Harley Davidsons rumbling down the 15 freeway on Saturday and Sunday mornings, then they can regulate the dirt bikes. Also, the noise from low flying airplanes and helicopters flying up and down the valley. Same with the dust from the hundreds of truck trips in and out of the local rock quarries and the huge dust clouds coming out of Synagro next to the El Sobrente land fill, then they can regulate the dust from a few dirtbikes. How about trespassing? Well, the horse people are also trespassing on private property and have no more right to be there than we do. And, they pay no green sticker or registration fees.

Many of these laws are already on the books. They just are not enforced. We need to enforce the laws that are already in place before we start enacting new laws.

To regulate an entire industry because of a few bad apples is simply wrong. It is up to us to weed out the bad apples and show by example what we need to do to keep our sport and our private property rights.

I agree with JP. We need to get together and plan our strategy before the next meeting.

Tim. Any time you want to do a ride, just post it here. We will come. :cool:

Ol'89r

 

[S_Markott]

Off Roading in Riverside County

I have been reading with interest on the anti-ohv subject here and on some other forums. I have been riding on and around my property here in south-western Riverside County since the late 60’s. I don’t do this anymore, to many people moving in has made this almost impossible. Nothing more sobering than a guy coming out with a loaded shotgun claiming that he’s had it with us trespassers tearing by his home at 70 mph. That wasn’t me and buddys but obviously enough idiots have irritated this guy and now he’s pissed. I take it out to Joshua or Randsburg or my bike stays in the garage. I don’t like it but, it is what it is.

I was also in attendance at the last Planning Commission meeting. Just sitting back and listening. I agree that the MX mommies are self serving at best, however I would have to say that their backyard riding isn’t why we are where we are. Although wanting your little guy to train in your backyard to be the next superstar is not realistic either.

You want to talk about self serving? The real trouble makers were seated on the right side of the board room. Those handful of high profile track owners in Aguanga have taken it upon themselves to represent the off road industry and decent respectful property owning riders. Those attorneys they’ve hired to speak have repeatedly pissed off the Commissioners with their “Constitutional Rights” BS. These attorneys know very little about land use or how the system works. Like it or not, the Planning Commission’s job is to tell folks what they can and can’t do on their property! These guys are not just riding with their wives and kids, these are 15 to 20 acre full blown motocross tracks that repeatedly thrash their neighbors with noise by allowing factory product testing and professional riders to practice at their facilities.

I used to believe the complaining neighbors in Aguanga were just that, a bunch of whiners who hate bikes. All I can say is, try living next to one or two (or three) tracks that perform at the level of riding going on in these places and see if you think it’s a nice place to live. If these few idiots aren’t shut down by the County for lack of a conditional use permit (yes they all need one) and shunned by the rest of the industry real quick you can bet that it will haunt us forever and bike riding on your own property will only be something you can talk to your grandkids about.

The responsible organizations like the Blue Ribbon Coalition do not support allowing these kinds of tracks in peoples back yards and neither should we. Decent riding folks, who are the vast majority, need to start addressing the Commissioners and the rest of the Planners in the County that we do not support these large tracks, nor the people behind them. Mark Balys at mbalys@rctlma.org is the Planner who is writing the ord. I suggest everyone who wants to preserve family riding on their property contact him in regards to those few irresponsible idiots who have brought this down on our heads.

S. Markott

 

[CRF_Tom]

First off, let me say that, that was a very interesting post. Now concerning the moto mommies. As self serving as they were. They came out and used what they had available to them to keep their right for their children to train, practice or free ride on their own property. Now you say that the next superstar isn't going to come from the backyard kiddies. I would have to differ with you on that. Not all moto families can go to the track two, three times a week. I don't know about you. But it's hard enough to get a son to baseball, daughters to dance/cheer once a week. They need someplace to re-enforce their skills. Then when they get on the track they can perform and be competitive.
Doesn't the constitution also say something about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I think it does. Now. If I was a person looking to move out somewhere and I saw the tracks, or test facilities. I would think twice about what my happiness would be or would I want to buy there. Yes, there is change and yes there is progress. But I don't think that a reasonable person would just go ahead and move in to an urban area and set up a track or testing facility. Now it was my understanding that Jeremy McGrath has 95 acres out in Aguanga. That is a far cry from the 15-20 acres you spoke of. Granted. Nate Adams has a small area in rural surroundings that had an established business. That is an issue all to itself. Although I do agree with you, that they should get a S.U.P. to be able to move that amount of dirt or a C.U.P. for anything other than what the land was intended for.

The whining and nonsense about horses, isn't going to fly either. Growing up I was around horses and motorcycles. I have in my entire time dealing with them, never seen a horse react or respond in anyway as described. You mention the Blue ribbon coalition. I have read their Mission, Vision, and Value statement. This is what it says about private property. Support recreation on, and promote, respect for private property They also say in their code of ethics to respect public and private property. Those out there that are trespassing aren't doing that. In that case they become criminals. As long as we have kids, teens. You are going to have someone, that is going to want to ride on the other side of the trespassing sign. This ordinance isn't going to stop that.

S. Markott, I don't want to argue with you on this matter. I don't know if you own property or not. But to tell you. I don't and still think that this ordinance is wrong. There are other ways to come to a compromise. By the way. The idea about the Lombarde riding area. I think it is a poor exchange for the ordinance. It should be either bigger or another one built in eastern Riverside county. You live in Riverside Co. and still drive 3 1/2 to 4 hours to ride. I am sorry. That is wrong. The Co. should have something here for the citizens and residents that live here and spend our money here. I am not talking closed tracks either. San Bernadino Co. has Stoddard valley OHV area. What do we have? Imperial Co. has Ocotillo wells, Glamis. What do we have? I just don't get it. You would think, that since Riverside is considered the riding capitol of the world, that we would have more. But I guess not......

 

[TemeculaTim]

Like it or not, the Planning Commission’s job is to tell folks what they can and can’t do on their property!

No argument from me as long as it is done in a fair way with adequate representation from all sides. I only found out about this ordinance as a result of a couple of my equestrian owning friends who felt that this was a one-sided effort by a few well connected people. This ordinance, as proposed, was another example of a waste of taxpayer money. Realistic ways to deal with the main issues, Noise and Dust, were not properly addressed or discussed. I own a street legal dual sport bike, so technically I would not be affected, but I also am capable of generating noise or dust. Simply put, my problem was on how it was done. I too want to enjoy some sort of reasonable peace and quiet on my own property, but the county needs to think beyond our group. We are not the only things that can make noise or cause dust. How about loud car stereos, barking dogs, weed wackers, R/C planes,ect. ect.

 

[CspineRider]

Very well put Tom

 

[CRF_Tom]

One more thing that is being ignored. That is the days and times you can ride. Please...... Tues, Thurs, and Sat? How absurd is that. There are seven days in a week. Not three.

 

[S_Markott]

Hey, what’s wrong with a good argument! Seriously though, no where in my post was I embracing the ordinance amendment, and I don’t. We don’t need it. If the County would step up to the plate and begin using what they have on the books it would take care of all the serious large track complaints we have right now in the County and things would calm down. These large track owners are the one’s that created the problem, not the homeowners next to them or the nice people who ride mildly on their property with quiet bikes and respect the rest of the neighborhood. County land use ordinances require CUP’s for race tracks and trail bike parks, commercial or non commercial. It appears to me that no one in the industry has the huevos to admit where the problem really lies. Just because I love dirt bikes doesn’t mean I’m going to support anyone who owns one, no matter how good he/she rides or how high profile they are.

Yes, I believe the constitution does say something about Life Liberty and Pursuit of happiness, but the writers didn’t think we were so stupid as to need to add the line “But not at the expense of the neighborhood”. Just because someone wants to do something in their back yard doesn’t mean it’s appropriate. And it’s not “sad” that I have to pack our bikes up and drive 3 hours to ride, that’s life, that’s what my parents did with us kids and that’s what I do with mine. My parents would have had my head if I had attempted to drive the neighbors to drink with us boys ripping round and round the backyard of a 5 acre piece of land for hours (which we were capable of). Having trouble finding the time to get your children to baseball practice? Sorry, it doesn’t justify what your asking for and it’s not up to the rest of the neighborhood to mitigate your time constraints. I do allow my grand kids to putt quiet quads and bikes on my property, but I will not allow a race track or allow any of them to “train” with any regularity. It’s just not neighborly.

95 acres is nothing when it comes to 4 stroke noise/sound. Tracks like this can be easily heard for 2 miles. You think a few hundred feet is going to make a difference for the nearby homeowners? Not a chance. He should have done some checking at the County Planning dept. before purchasing the land to make sue this use is allowed without a permit. Try purchasing some land in the Wine country to build an AM/PM mini market and see how far you get. Just because you own the land and want to do something specific, doesn’t mean it will be allowed. And it’s your job to find out, not the neighbors job to tell you after the fact.

Check out the BRC website if you want a lesson in noise and sound, www.sharetrails.org . And if you doubt me that the BRC does not support these large tracks I suggest you call them yourselves and find out. Trespassing is not the issue and this ordinance amendment did not come about because of trespassing, weed whackers, dogs barking and the like. And there is no way that the County is going to undertake such a huge and heated issue because of a few “well connected” people. Are these people also connected with San Bernardino County, Hesperia, Apple Valley and all the other County’s and cities around the country that have similar ordinances in the works? Come on, lets open our eyes and ears. We have a problem and it’s not going to go away. Do we keep our heads in the sand and shoot ourselves in the foot with this “over the top” ordinance that will effect everyone, or do we try and focus on getting the real problem makers under control via what we already have in our land use zoning ordinances?

Think about it.

 

[S_Markott]

One other important item to mention. Pasted below is a press release from the AMA after the last Planning Commission hearing.

The AMA has announced their support for the OHV enthusiasts in this County, that’s you and me and the thousands of other regular old dirt bike people in Riverside County. Shame on the AMA via Mr. Moreland for attempting to minimize the problem by making the statement that this issue is just a “dispute between neighbors”. All this does is pi** of the proponents! We don’t need to do that, it gets us nowhere.

He is right that we do need to focus on the facts, he would do well to start gathering them instead of coddling the family of “an eight-time AMA champion, two-time world champion, and member of the Motorcycle Hall of Fame”. This is sickening. I don’t give a damn about this kids track, in fact if he didn’t have it (or if it was legally permitted and mitigated), I’d bet money we would have allot less people in Aguanga beating a path to the County to demand a new ordinance!

These few irresponsible track owners, supported by the AMA are doing nothing but making things worse. I’ve heard a few County employees say that no one has been fooled by the unrealistic sound demonstrations that have supposedly taken place recently. They were conducted by the AMA and some opponents of the ordinance. We don’t need this kind of help. I sincerely hope the County can see that these few people and their agenda do not represent the majority riders here in the County.

--------------------------------------------------

AMA testifies for OHV riders in Riverside County, California
The AMA has announced its support of off-highway-vehicle enthusiasts in Riverside County, California, voicing its opposition to a proposal to severely curb off-highway riding on private property.
The proposal, brought forward by a small number of local residents, would limit OHV riding to three days a week in unincorporated areas, and would restrict the number of OHVs on private property -- arguably the harshest such rules in the nation.
Edward Moreland, AMA Vice President for Government Relations, testified at a July 6 meeting of the Riverside County Planning Commission.
"A dispute between neighbors sparked a brush fire that now threatens to consume responsible off-highway riding in all of Riverside County," said Moreland. "What this fire needs is more light and less heat -- the discussion needs to focus on the facts. The AMA believes that those facts clearly demonstrate that off-highway-vehicle enthusiasts should keep the right to ride on their own private property."
Jeremy McGrath, an eight-time AMA champion, two-time world champion, and member of the Motorcycle Hall of Fame, is one of the riders who could be affected by the proposed rules.
"I know that this issue is important to off-highway riders not only in California, but all across America," said McGrath, who rides on his Riverside County property. "I'm glad we have the AMA standing beside us, helping us protect our right to ride."
A number of other OHV enthusiasts, as well as the California-based Off-Road Business Association and property-rights advocates, also testified at the meeting.
After hearing hours of testimony, the Planning Commission voted unanimously to postpone its decision until August 31, 2005, and declined to consider proposals that included day-of-week restrictions.
The AMA's written comments to the Riverside County Planning Commission can be viewed here (PDF).
© 2005, American Motorcyclist Association

 

[CspineRider]

It's hard to believe that you are a rider S_Markott. Your barking on the wrong message board. Why dont you show up at the next hearing and whine about it there.

 

[JPIVEY]

S_Markott, is not off base here for the most part, this is much bigger than dispute between neighbors, when they say restrict riding in the unincroperated areas, they don't differentiate between backyard tracks and the open areas that we use far and away from homes.

The folks that are there in opposition to this ord. are only concerned with their backyard tracks, hence the self serving commit.

We have and will continue to lose accessible areas to urban spawl, that's a given, hell, I may live in a area that I rode in 30 yrs ago and I'm sure most of you older guys do too.

My concern is not the backyard track, my concern is the blanket restriction of riding in the unincroperated areas, this is a huge area and a huge problem for the future of our riding access

Example, District 37 has only 3 areas now allowed to us for race event by the BLM, this is less than 1% of the over 15,000,000 acres. We not only share this area with recreational riders, but this area is checker boarded with private property. If this Riverside ord goes thru as written now, San Bernardino will follow suite with the same, meaning that all the riders that use this area for riding and racing will be confined to a single day.

Also, for us to put on an event we will have to get premission from property owners, the problem with this is, these are investment properties and a vast majority of the owners do not reside in the United States, so we lose a racing/riding venue that we have had since 1932.

As much as I disagree with this ordinence, I am probably your worst opponent of it ( well, next to the proponents ) because I would much rather see them crack down on urban riding ( which is already in the books ) than to have them restrict riding in all unincroperated areas

This is my opinion, tell me where I'm wrong

 

[JPIVEY]

If you are familar with AB1086 it is the same restrictions, this is an on going bill in the state senate, for the most part I thought it's was dying, however it now appears to me that all they have done is dropped it to a county level in the form of an ordinence and if passed in any form will accomplish exactly what we fought to defeat in AB1086