Rice burners

380EXCman · Sep 4, 2001

Bang for your buck....

Dollar for dollar you cant beat a Z28........ A new Z28 is Quicker/Faster than any equally priced Jap or Euro car........... And My Dodge Neon is a great running car comes stock with 155 horses and handles excellent...As a matter fact the Neon is a muti time stock class SCCA champion...... All for $12000.00....Find a Jap car equally priced that can say the same.......

The coin has 2 sides.......

My 87 Toyota Corrolla gets 30 MPG and an oil change once a year... Heck I just checked the auto tranny fluid for the first time in 6 years (it was a little low)..It runs great takes me to work every day. Has never failed me......I doubt it ever will. It does not make enough power to put stress on anything. Hell the car won't even budge with the AC on, you have to get it up to speed first.

The statement "Theres no replacement for displacement" is faily accurate.... A modern fuel injected V-8 that puts out 280 HP will run better than a Turbo 4 or 6... with 280 HP. No Turbo lag and you dont have to wait for the engine to rev to 6500 rpm to make any power.....

When I was in the Army I spent every penny I saved in the Gulf on my 87 Ford Ranger... It had a 2.3 4 cyl. with an Offenhauser intake, Holley 4 barrel carb, Carter Hi pressure fuel pump, billet solid lift cam, billet crank, aluminium rods and pistons, oversized valves, header, lightend flywheel,Center force clutch and a direct port injection NOS (junk) system.... For a 4 banger it hauled arse. I use to beat 5.0's all the time. Even after lighting up the rears clear through the light. Them guys would pull up at the next light and ask me what I had under the hood. They woulnt believe me so I would have to pull over and show them.... I finally wrapped it around a fire hydrant... Sold it to a guy in Ohio that plugged the holes from the NOS, put it in a pinto and proceded to kick but in the roundy round car circut....

But my buddy had a near stock 69 340 Dart and a near stock 360 Duster that would blow my doors off..... He had less money in his cars than I had in my motor....:p

The guy that built my motor wanted to put a 428 CJ motor in instead. I should have listened to him.:cool:

ktmboy · Sep 4, 2001

While it's true that a V-8 delivers cheap horsepower, you've got to consider that for a daily driver a rice rocket can't be beat. It has the best economy / performance ratio available. Sure, a Z-1 sounds better, handles better, and will outrun me, but dollar for dollar, I'm getting more bang for my buck. When I need a serious horsepower fix I jump on my KTM. (360-Power everywhere!):D

orion163 · Sep 5, 2001

civics are fast, actually i've seen civic beat a 10 second camaro on more than one occasion

The statement "Theres no replacement for displacement" is faily accurate.... A modern fuel injected V-8 that puts out 280 HP will run better than a Turbo 4 or 6... with 280 HP. No Turbo lag and you dont have to wait for the engine to rev to 6500 rpm to make any power.....

BTW a turbo system isnt the only way to make power from a 4 or 6 cylinder engine. Have you heard of superchargers, the new ones are actually quite effective. Did you all forget about nitrous. I have respect for any car that can hang with an import 4cyl. running with NOS.

firecracker22 · Sep 5, 2001

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
I had a Ford Falcon (large sedan) powered by a 351 Cleveland.

What year Falcon? A good friend of mine in high school had 5 of them (60, 61, 65, 62 Ranchero) and they were NOT "large sedans." Not compared with other cars of that era! What did the 2-doors weigh, ~2600 pounds? The 4-doors weren't much larger. They did get a little larger later though.

Personally, I prefer the sound and fury of a well-cammed American V-8. I like the acceleration and power trip when the secondaries open up. "Rice Rockets" don't have that sudden forward surge or loud, headers-and-doublepumper-induced roar either. Nor do their high-revving 4 and 6 cylinders produce as much tire-spinning torque . . . and I'm still immature enough to enjoy a good smoke show.

However, I must admit that the imports are embarrassing the late model domestic cars. Come on, Detroit, wake up!

Dirk Diggler · Sep 5, 2001

The old Falcon is a 1980 model. We are still making them in Oz land. It is a large car here, but not when compared to 'Yank Tanks'.

It had the power to leave two black lines down the road, but that doesn't help acceleration either.

With all the zip of the rice burners, nothing beats the low rumble of near 6 litres cruising down the street. Even little kids that know nothing about cars point and stare.

WoodsRider · Sep 5, 2001

Re: Bang for your buck....

But my buddy had a near stock 69 340 Dart...

Oh man, I had a '68 340 GTS. It was all stock except for electronic ignition (couldn't keep the dual points properly adjusted), a 3.55 Sure-Grip third member in the differential (stock was 3.23) and Bumble Bee stripes around the rear deck. That car was the greatest sleeper. Blew away more than my share of mid-eightes Z-28's and 5.0's that thought they were racing a granny mobile.

XRpredator · Sep 5, 2001

Wasn't there a "rice-burner/rice-rocket" flame a few months ago?

Never owned one. Never owned a car!

All I've ever driven on a regular basis is a pickup (not a truck!--but that's another flame altogether). From a 1958 Chevy 2wd that I got for $100, to a '70 Chev 2wd for $400 (that I sunk a good 5 large into!), to a 1960 4x4, to my current '92 Predatormobile, it's been pickups all the way.

Cars are for girls.:p Right, Firecracker?;)

380EXCman · Sep 5, 2001

Oh man, I had a '68 340 GTS. It was all stock except for electronic ignition (couldn't keep the dual points properly adjusted), a 3.55 Sure-Grip third member in the differential (stock was 3.23) and Bumble Bee stripes around the rear deck.

His Dart was a GT and was totally stock with a little head work. His Duster had a MOPAR Performance cam and intake, headers, Super Stock leaf springs, 3.91 gearing and a reverse manual valve body tranny..... It was good for low 12's with 9-1/2" slicks. MOPAR's sure were fast and light too....

civics are fast, actually i've seen civic beat a 10 second camaro on more than one occasion

Anything can be made fast with....$$$$$$$$$$

Did you all forget about nitrous. I have respect for any car that can hang with an import 4cyl. running with NOS.

Been there done that.......

WoodsRider · Sep 5, 2001

Wasn't there a "rice-burner/rice-rocket" flame a few months ago?
[/B]

Yes, there was. I figure it's like 4-wheeler or MXA flame threads. Every six months or so you see a new one pop up.

380 - I agree, the old Mopars were very fast and the A-body cars were very light. Of course my favorite is still a 426 Hemi stuffed into a B-body sedan. Talk about a sleeper. There's just no replacement for displacement.

Orion - As for the little nitrous comment. I ran a Stage 2 system on one of the cars I owned. Even though the fuel mixture was correct I ended up with three melted pistons when I tore the engine down at the end of the season. At least I had five more to go. Of course I will never run a turbocharger in a 1/4-mile application again. Not due to turbo lag problems, those can be overcome. Bearing failure is far too common when used in 1/4-mile applications.

Hucker · Sep 5, 2001

WWR: You come from the land of great cars. I can't imagine what its like walking down the street and seeing R34 Skyline's, Mitsu EVO's, and all the other killer cars that we will never see on this continent. I'd even take one of those Nissan Pulsar GTI-R's. Unreal little cars with 200HP. Or CTR's, mmm now that would be a great import for the US/Canada. You might even get to get a glance at the ultimate Subaru, the 22B. I think I would walk out in traffic and just stare :)

Hopefully one day I'll get to see those cars for myself....

Wanna take some pics for me? :) :) :)

Rockrider300 · Sep 5, 2001

So woodsrider is that true about the turbocharger problem. Do the superchargers have some of the same problems.

motometal · Sep 5, 2001

V-8 - why I like!

1. the sound!
2. the torque! no waiting or revving!
3. make good hp without being overstressed like a hopped up 4 or 6
4. the sound!

mileage? who cares! engines don't get hangovers, no matter how much they drink!

ktmboy · Sep 5, 2001

I'm not knocking people who can afford to drive a big V-8. I drive 150 miles per day. If I could afford to do that in something bigger, my preferece would be a full size (F350, 4x4, Crew Cab, long bed) pick-up!:D

KXKen · Sep 5, 2001

Originally posted by WoodsRider
Orion - As for the little nitrous comment. I ran a Stage 2 system on one of the cars I owned. Even though the fuel mixture was correct I ended up with three melted pistons

I believe that forged pistons and some retard on the ignition timing could have saved this one.

WoodsRider · Sep 6, 2001

Originally posted by Rockrider300
... is that true about the turbocharger problem. Do the superchargers have some of the same problems.

A turbocharger rotates 8 to 12 times greater than engine RPM. A typical Roots or Paxton supercharger rotates 2 to 3 times greater than engine RPM. The turbo is also exposed to exhaust temperatures as well as compressing air and operates at higher temperature than a blower. The oil lubricates and carries heat away from the bearings. When the typical turbocharged engine is shut down oil no longer flows through the bearings. The oil that remains is literally "cooked" to the bearings. In the application we were running, a VW "pancake" 4 cylinder engine, we'd shut down the engine at the end of the run. After five or six hard runs the bearing would sieze and the turbo wouldn't work. Sometimes this happened in the middle of a run. :eek: The solution would have been to run a "soak back" pump that continued to feed oil to the turbo bearings after engine shut down. Instead we yanked off the turbo and dropped back into the "naturally aspirated" classes.

Originally posted by KXKen
I believe that forged pistons and some retard on the ignition timing could have saved this one.

Had forged pistons and 12 degrees initial advance... but 35 degrees total advance. Still ran in the mid-12's with three "bad" pistons though. :confused:

Rockrider300 · Sep 6, 2001

Thanks Woodsrider. So whould a supercharge have the same problem.

KLX4smoke · Sep 6, 2001

Woodsriders experience with turbos is an extreme case. I have had Saab turbos for 10 years, 900's and 9000's. Using stock boost, a modern turbo is bulletproof. Easily get 100,000 miles out of a Garrett turbo (stock on Saabs). Pumping up the boost to a non-extreme level results in little difference in reliability as long as the car has a knock sensing provision and you use good gas and synthetic oil. The synthetic oil has much less of an ability to "coke" or turn to a solid in the extreme heat of a turbo. Modern turbos also have water cooling (bet you didn't have that on your VW, woodsrider!). This lowers the temperature of the turbo significantly and helps the "coking" problem alot. Just my experience! :)

Rockrider300 · Sep 6, 2001

Turbos run at about 100,000rpm when at full boost and that is fast. I am talking about running it for 1/4 mile runs. I was also thinking would it help to leave the car running after the run. Also I was thinking about putting twin turbos on a V8. Has anyone here done this before. I have seen people do this and they claim to get 10sec. runs.:p A lot faster than any rice car and I do not care what you do to it. He also only spent $4,000 on the car and was running on pump gas.

KXKen · Sep 6, 2001

Originally posted by WoodsRider
Had forged pistons and 12 degrees initial advance... but 35 degrees total advance.

How long was the nitrous duration? What amount of boost where you using? The more boost you have the more you have to retard ignition timing.

Sorry woodsrider but I believe that the people that blow engines on nitrous just don't have the proper setup for it. Everybody that I know that melted a piston on nitrous had a problem with the ignition timing or the fuel mixture. No doubt it's going to reduce your engine life but if you put the system on and blow your engine a week later it's because your engine was not properly setup for it.

bwalker · Sep 6, 2001

Rice rocket story- A buddy of mine has a a 3/4 ton Dodge QC with the Cummins diesel. The motor has A LOT of work done to it and puts out around 450hp and 950 ftlbs of torque. A couple of kids in a civic with a coffee can muffler pull up next to us a stop light with there stereo booming. My friend inches his truck up to the intersection line, kids in the civic do the same, light turns green, Cummins roars and imediatly begins to spew thick black smoke and spin the tires, kids jump us a little as result, cummins hooks up and blows by them all the while laying down smoke like a coal fired steam engine. Not bad for a big 4x4 with 35" tires. I would have liked to see the looks on those kids faces.

WoodsRider · Sep 7, 2001

KXKen - You're right. I didn't build and set-up the engine to run on nitrous. I added the system later on to drop my ET into the low 12's. I dialed the system in per the NOS instructions. However I should have had the distributor "professionally" re-curved. The funny thing is the motor still ran fairly good. I'm not sure when the pistons melted or how long they were ran that way. At the time, that car was also my daily driver. You and I actually agree though. Nitrous set-up is very critical. Many people (including me back then) think it's just a matter of bolting up a kit. In reality it's more like trying to dial-in the carburetor jetting on your dirt bike.

KLX - Do you drag race your Saab? If you read the owners manual for a turbocharged vehicle, they tell you to let the engine idle for a short period BEFORE shutting the engine down. We shut the VeeWee down immediately after (and sometimes before the end of) each run then had to tow or push it back to the start. It carried just enough fuel for the burnout, staging and the run. Anymore fuel was excess weight.

Rockrider - You won't have these problem with a Roots or Paxton type supercharger. Check with marine vessel or semi-tractor repair facilities that work on Detroit Diesels. Sometimes you can get a good deal on those little 3-71 or 4-71 "Jimmy" blowers.

Offroadr · Sep 7, 2001

Originally posted by WoodsRider
KXKen - You're right. I didn't build and set-up the engine to run on nitrous. I added the system later on to drop my ET into the low 12's. I dialed the system in per the NOS instructions. However I should have had the distributor "professionally" re-curved. The funny thing is the motor still ran fairly good. I'm not sure when the pistons melted or how long they were ran that way. At the time, that car was also my daily driver. You and I actually agree though. Nitrous set-up is very critical. Many people (including me back then) think it's just a matter of bolting up a kit. In reality it's more like trying to dial-in the carburetor jetting on your dirt bike..

ROOKIE! hehe I also ran a NOS kit on the street. It was a NOS Cheater. Three years on stock pistons, stock MSD, and a Q-jet carb. NEVER had a problem! But I never went past the Stage 1 pill either :D . Typically nitrous problems come from getting 'greedy' and add more than the engine can handle. Like my buddy who ran a NOS Pro Fogger on a 350 small block. Yea it flew when it was together!

You still got that kit don't you? I would like to get a plate for my Dominator and see if I can get the Chevelle into the 9's :) . I made the 10's with natural aspiration which was the initial goal. :) But I'd have to get new license plates! The current ones say '10 SECS"

KLX4smoke · Sep 7, 2001

If you read the owners manual for a turbocharged vehicle, they tell you to let the engine idle for a short period BEFORE shutting the engine down.

Woodsrider, no I never drag raced on a track anyway. When Saab went to water-cooled turbos in 1988, the owners manual warning about letting the engine idle for a while was eliminated. It's just not necessary in a water cooled turbo as the center section is kept much cooler.
When I was a Saab mechanic we saw very few turbo failures of the water cooled unit compared to the earlier cars. It was rare to find a customer that actually let the car idle before shutdown anyway, most people couldn't be bothered with the delay.

jeffd · Sep 7, 2001

Originally posted by orion163
civics are fast, actually i've seen civic beat a 10 second camaro on more than one occasion

I would like to see that :think
I happen to own a Mustang GT and the little rice cars with park-bench wings and trash-can tail pipes are always bugging me. I have yet to be beat by one of these pesky devils and my car is stock save for exhaust and underdrive pulleys and suspension mods. I did have one manage to keep up with me, but it was a turbo charged Mitsubishi Eclipse with variable waste gate controller and exhaust work and other goodies (hardly a slammed Civic with a fart pipe).

I have seen plenty of streetable 9 second mustangs (that still get 22 mpg on the highway - look HERE for an example), however perusing the import magazines at the supermarket stand has revealed a simple truth - the 4 popper crowd is impressed with low 12 second and high 11 second 1/4 time slips. This is a major accomplishment! Any rice rocket I have ever read about that is doing 10s is a PURE race car with a completely guttted interior. Big deal.

If you want fast - Go to a Super Chevy or Fun Ford Weekend and see the street legal cars that can crank out high low 8's on 10.5" wide slicks. Ex -FFW Street Outlaw Class:
Major modifications permitted. Maximum displacement 360 cubic inches with supercharger or turbocharger, 605 cubic inches with nitrous oxide, closed exhaust, 10.5" W slicks, any single power adder system permitted. Inter/Aftercoolers permitted. Must weigh 2800 lbs, with driver. Competitive ET Range: 7.80 - 9.00

-jeffd

WoodsRider · Sep 7, 2001

It was rare to find a customer that actually let the car idle before shutdown anyway, most people couldn't be bothered with the delay.

KLX - That is why there are fewer turbocharged passenger cars being sold today than 15 to 20 years ago, at least from Chrysler, Ford and GM.

Off - I don't have the NOS Stage 2 system anymore, but the guy I sold it to is not using it and may be interested in selling it. It should get you into the 9's easily. I ended up in the high 11's and the track "black flagged" my Demon for not having a roll cage. That's when I started racing the VW.

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